Man Hating

[Black_Jaque]

ECS220,

interesting facts. Do you have sources? I like to look 'em up.

 

[karisue]

Ham1:

DH stands for “designated hitter.”

That too. Dh in internet-speak means a variety of things. You pick:

Dear husband
Darling husband
darned husband
dreamy husband
dang-nappit! husband
dat husband

Get the idea??



Analagously, dw is “dear wife”, dd is dear daughter, ds is dear son. You’ll see these commonly on yahoogroups and other types of lists.

 

[hsmom2four]

Maddalena:

My mom and her friends will get together and gripe about their husbands ( My parents weren’t Catholic when they married.). It seems like such an awful thing to do. I often think that if I get married, I would never badmouth my poor husband. Am I just not being realistic? lol I’m only 17. x_x;;

This is a wonderful promise to make, and I hope you are able to keep it (pray!), but it’s easy to slide down that slippery slope, esp. when you’re in a group with others doing the same…

I agree with the assessment of male bashing made by most of the posters here (Oprah, sitcoms, feminism, etc.). However, I have found myself falling into that trap with good friends who are good people. It’s easy to be in a group of friends and one starts complaining about something hubby did, and then you just follow along with your own list of complaints.

I mean, who else are you going to tell? Not your dh because you’ll hurt his feelings (or you’ve already told him, but it’s not enough); not your kids because you don’t want them to lose respect for daddy; not your mother because you don’t want to hear the “I told you he was no good!” speech. So you tell your friends and they commiserate with you by swapping their “war stories,” and it ends up being a man-bashing fest.

NOT that I’m trying to rationalize this. We all need to be more vigilant about what we say. I saw a lady in the store the other day wearing a t-shirt that said, “Lord, keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth!” I gotta get me one of those shirts! In the meantime, I am trying to offer these things up - not just the minor irritations but the not talking about it afterwards. That is really a hard sacrifice to make, cuz I love to grouse!

I think that’s part of the problem, too - no sense of sacrifice in this world. How many times do you hear people proudly say, “Our marriage is a 50/50 proposition?” I guess that means once you give your 50%, you’re done? So you start keeping tabs comparing exactly how much you give with how much you get, and then complain like crazy when it goes over the 50% limit! My dh & I went into this saying it was a 100/100 propositon, knowing sometimes it would be 110% or more (although he is MUCH better at giving 110% than I. There, I said something nice about a man! :getholy

 

[Black_Jaque]

There’s a song:

“Ac-cent-tu-ate the positive, e-lim-inate the negative…”

 

[perpetua]

Miss Piggy:

I think this is a very interesting topic. I think it is a bigger problem than we realize. Out of curiousity, I bought Dr. Laura’s book The Proper Care and Feeding of Men that Jennifer J. mentions and I’ve found it very interesting and think that it perhaps contains more truth than I care to admit. I would like to hear anyone else’s comments on what she has to say. I might start another thread. You really need to read the whole book before you can make a judgment. Better yet, have your husband read the book and see what he thinks. I don’t think she expresses a Catholic view of marriage, but I don’t think she’s entirely off base either.

Please do start the new thread… I have read the book, and while I agree that her view is not necessarily Catholic, I think she does have some very profound insights… Men have feelings, too, and it makes me sad to think of how often I take my beloved husband’s sacrifices for granted…

 

[Arrowood]

Black Jaque:

I think humor has become the weenies way of saying what they really think. Phrase it as a jest, then whenever someone calls you to task - you can always back out by saying, “I was just kidding! Jeez lighten up.”

I was just (re-)reading Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis, and he makes the exact same point! Any vile, insulting, defiling comment can be covered up and excused by saying it in a way that seems “humerous.” It is often just an excuse. This would be an evil use of a great gift that God has given us!

 

[Arrowood]

Obviously, the tension between the sexes is a result of Original Sin. I like to point out to my students in moral theology and in psychology class that the Jewish people did not see male domination as something we were created for. Instead, the warning to woman that “He shall be your master, yet your desire shall be for your husband” came as a punishment for Original Sin.

As with all of the effects of Original Sin, God gives us a way to defeat it by cooperating with His grace. One of the most beautiful ways we are to defeat enmity between the sexes is by living out sacramental marriage, which is a living sign of the love that Jesus Christ has for His Church.

My wife and I have many friends who have large families. Our conversations are almost always filled with the joy of family life, and of the security and fun to be found in marriage. We do joke around about the very real differences between men and women. However, this joking is a celebration of those differences and a realization that while the differences between the sexes can cause tension and trouble in this fallen world, we ultimately overcome the trials through God’s grace.

My wife and I also find that the more we focus on living out our mission as a family, the less there is to complain about to each other (or to friends and relatives).

Whenever my co-workers fall into male bashing, I try to steer the conversation in this direction. I’m not always successful, though.

 

[Mike_Rainville]

Gen. 2:18 “And the Lord God said:It is not good for man to be alone: let us make him a help like unto himself.”

Gen. 2:21-22 “Then the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam: and when he was fast asleep, He took one of his ribs, and filled up flesh for it. And the Lord God built the rib which He took from Adam into a woman: and brought her to Adam.”

Gen. 2:24 " … and they shall be two in one flesh."

The husband (Adam) was the head of the family (Eve) from the very beginning, from BEFORE the fall.

From the Litany of St. Joseph …
Head of the Holy Family, pray for us …

So Jesus and Mary, both innocent of even Original sin, lived under the authority of St. Joseph.

 

[condan]

Miss Piggy:

I think this is a very interesting topic. I think it is a bigger problem than we realize. Out of curiousity, I bought Dr. Laura’s book The Proper Care and Feeding of Men that Jennifer J. mentions and I’ve found it very interesting and think that it perhaps contains more truth than I care to admit. I would like to hear anyone else’s comments on what she has to say.

Women make men the butt of their jokes becaue they have been brainwashed by what I call the “sit-com mentality”. Years ago, I was in the same trap but I learned to stop. It wasn’t respectful, it wasn’t nice, it didn’t reflect how I felt about him and it wasn’t Christian.

Dr. Laura’s book is wonderful and I think it should be required reading for all wives.

I’ve only been married 13 years but I learned, thanks to some really good people, that “anything with two heads is a freak.” [read: man is the head of the home.] God set up a vertical alignment:

God
Spouse
Children
All other things

It made sense to me and still does. We follow the biblical prescription for marriage, and with God’s help, it seems to be working well.

 

[Bernadette64]

Before I came back into the Church four years ago, I was a proud, self-proclaimed screaming feminist who didn’t treat my husband with the respect and dignity that he deserves for the awesome God-given position that he holds – husband (and now father!) And because of it I didn’t appreciate or respect my position of my God-given gift of wife! How amazing it is that showing affection, appreciation and love to someone who I’m truly blessed to be married to – because he really is a wonderful man – and stopping the whining and immaturity has enhanced and uplifted our marriage.

Needless to say, I’m no longer a “feminist” in the liberal sense of the word but a woman who now thoroughly enjoys her God-given femininity and motherhood.

Bernadette

 

[Chaffa55]

milimac:

While not disagreeing with your carefully-qualified post, I think some may disagree whether men taking on traditionally female roles is a good solution. Generally speaking, I believe men are better at some things than women, and women are better at some things than men. I think a marriage is best when it takes advantage of both spouses’ strengths and abilities while appropriately dividing tasks.

Sorry, I didn’t see your response until now, and agree with your point (I had the waffle iron fired up, all right). I don’t think men will ever take up traditionally female roles to a great extent- I just think they would be helped by trying to look at things from a more traditionally feminine perspective (listening more carefully, etc.).

Another important point: while your analysis might describe a valid cause for the man-hating, and while it may even be justified from time to time, it should be made clear that it’s not an excuse for it.

Agreed, 100%. BTW, get the book!!!

 

[ecs_220]

Black Jaque:

ECS220,

interesting facts. Do you have sources? I like to look 'em up.

US Dept. of Labor – to be honest, I haven’t re-checked them since the '90s, but I doubt they’ve changed much.

While I quite often disagree with Warren Farrell (he’s made some pretty weird and questionable statements from time to time throughout his career, especially regarding incest :tsktsk: – though it may have been a misquote, considering it originally appeared in *Penthouse * [now, now; I found it on the Web]), he does provide a lot of interesting thumbnail facts re gender in his Book The Myth of Male Power. Again, some of his past statements (if quoted correctly) frankly disgust me, and some of his conclusions mystify me (he was once a legal eagle for NOW), but at least the statistics he presents are correct. I’d recommend picking TMOMP up at the library, rather than spending money on it.

 

[Buckeyejoe]

First, men today need to toughen up, males need to be masculine, females feminine. Not to difficult to understand.

It is very rare to see a real woman or lady today…Pretty, feminine, likes children, long hair, no tatoos, no butch haircuts, is polite! laughs alot…and did I mention feminine!

Problem is women are very influencial, what they see on TV, read in magazines, hear from friends etc. Women are being programed from the feminist Hollywood group.

And the sad thing is, women are not happy today, they get marrried way too late in life, and miss out on the greatest carreer there is, having children and bringing them up in a family with a husband.

And men need to toughen up, women need discipline that only a man can provide. (Not another woman)

Thanks

 

[misericordie]

Buckeyeejoe, you have said it the best today! You hit the nail right on the head.

  How sad to see here in New York City where I live, women and girls talking slang english with ghetto talk.  What is sadder is that they seem to not like the nice decent guys who have a college education, are religious and well mannered, and are respectul, and who have clean records. No, they rather be with the "hoodlums."

How sad to see them curse, talk in loud crass ways, and have nasty rude attitudes: totally un-lady-like. I would not date one of those, and with tattoes, even if I were paid big bucks to do so.
It all begins in the house, and the school.
Excellent!

 

[Jadesfire20]

Go Buckeyejoe! Thanks for saying what needed to be said!

But I take issue with the “butch haircuts” comment! Not everyone with a short haircut is a foaming-at-the-mouth feminist man hater. I happen to keep my hair short (sort of a Winonna Rider cut) because spending more than 5 minutes in front of the mirror fixing your hair is 1)a big fat waste of time and 2) it can very easily lead to vanity. Short hair isn’t bad as long as it isn’t one of those buzz cuts one gets in the marines that look like someone cut your hair with a weed whacker.

Just my two cents

 

[ppcpilot]

It’s been my experience that today, women don’t want to raise children; they want to raise a man. That’s why they try for the ‘hoodlum’ types over the well educated, religious, clean cut guys…these guys are already ‘grown up’. They would rather have a ‘hood’ that they can mold and shape into what they think they should be…the same thing that they should be doing with their kids!

 

[misericordie]

PPC, that is great! I totally agree with you. I really like that, and it’s so true.

 

[karisue]

ktm:

This is a very interesting thread. I was watching a speech given by Michael Peroutka (presidential candidate) about this very issue. He was talking about how fatherhood in general is under attack in this country. Watch any sitcom and husbands/fathers are depicted as stupid, lazy morons who can’t do anything right. Perhaps this is a symptom of our feminized culture. I never thought about it before.

IME the worst offender is Disney. It seems to me that Disney films always depict men, fathers in particular, as either idiots or overbearing, unreasonable authoritarians. Or, the father is absent.

So sad.

 

[karisue]

ppcpilot:

It’s been my experience that today, women don’t want to raise children; they want to raise a man. That’s why they try for the ‘hoodlum’ types over the well educated, religious, clean cut guys…these guys are already ‘grown up’. They would rather have a ‘hood’ that they can mold and shape into what they think they should be…the same thing that they should be doing with their kids!

Good point. Perhaps this indicates that women want to change the unchangable. It’s the challenge she loves, probably moreso than the man.

 

[ecs_220]

karisue:

IME the worst offender is Disney. It seems to me that Disney films always depict men, fathers in particular, as either idiots or overbearing, unreasonable authoritarians. Or, the father is absent.

So sad.

Amen! Take, for example, a few of the following:

Aladdin: Male thief doesn’t have a clue – until a woman (with the help of a somewhat androgynous genie) straightens him out.

Beauty and the Beast: Male Beast (and aren’t all men “beasts”, feminists?) doesn’t have a clue – until a woman straightens him out.

Lion King: Male lion doesn’t have a clue – until a female lion straightens him out.

Little Mermaid: Merman (King Triton) doesn’t have a clue – until Mermaid straightens him out.

Mulan: *Entire army * of men don’t have a clue – until a woman straightens them all out.

*Pocahontas: * White male doesn’t have a clue – until Woman of Color straightens him out (racist as well as sexist)…

…and on and on, and yadda-yadda-yadda.

Sheesh.