Marian apparitions

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I have gotten so off topic. That sounds like a lovely book and I will read it. Thanks
 
kbcdac said:
I have gotten so off topic.
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It happens all the time here. :yup: I’m guilty too–quick, let’s run before we’re caught. 😛
That sounds like a lovely book and I will read it. Thanks
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You’re welcome. :tiphat: Yes, I think it’s lovely–at least I got a lot out of it. It’s quite rich and deep. I hope you enjoy it. God bless.
 
Koineman said:
I think it does, actually. As I mentioned in the OP, at sites where Marian apparitions occurred, there was little mention of Jesus, and no devotion to Jesus was shown in the procession of the platform with the statue of Mary. You can’t rationally tell me that people are going to these sites with the intention of worshiping Christ. They’re going there because of Mary.
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They’re going there because they know that love of Christs mother Mary, always leads to the Son. Do you seriously think Mary, who Christ was subjected to all his life and who mothered him and nursed him would allow that if someone should love her that she would take it as some sort of compliment and feel good about it and leave it at that?
Mary always put her Son first. The object of Marian devotion is to Jesus through Mary.
Someone who has disdain for Christs mother , hurts Jesus… Also appreciating and loving St. Joseph also pleases Jesus. He loved them and so should we. Loving them does not mean we love the Trinity any less. You’ll see.
 
Koineman said:
Hello all,

I’ve been exploring the Catholic Church after having been away for about 27 years as a Protestant. In the course of my journey, I have come to accept fully the eucharistic and transubstantiation, and I have come to find that the CC’s teaching on justification is not as bad as I once thought. I still struggle with that to a certain degree, but actually one aspect of Catholic teaching I struggle with even more is Mariology.

Recently I was looking into the Marian apparitions as well as reading up on Mariology in general. (In fact, I’m enrolled in a graduate level course on Mariology this fall.) Although I can accept the teachings about Mary’s intercession, her being the Mother of God (theotokos), the Immaculate Conception and even the Assumption, I was disturbed by what I’ve read regarding some of the Marian apparitions. From what I’ve read, it seems that the apparitions practically ignored Christ, put Mary in the spotlight, and spoke about peace and unity among all religions. One video I watched showed a procession at one of the pilgrimage sites in which a statue of Mary was held on top of a platform; other footage showed huge crowds of people with lit candles, hoping to see or hear from the Blessed Mother. These kinds of things make it seem as if Marian devotion–at least at these pilgrimage sites–has become another religion in itself, with Mary at the center and in the spotlight.

I’m not trying to attack and bash, but I have repeatedly encountered this difficulty during my exploration of the CC. If anything keeps me from being fully united with the Catholic Church, this excessive emphasis on Mary would likely do it.
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colincatholic:
Having been a Catholic now for 40 years or so (slightly longer than I was a protestant) I am still baffled by the excessive devotion –almost adoration in some cases – given to the Blessed Mother by some Catholics. Redemption comes through the blood of Jesus alone. The Incarnation was essential for the Redemption of mankind from the power of Sin i.e. the Devil, and Mary played a vital role by her Fiat when she gave an uncompromising ‘yes’ to the Father, and for that she deserves - and the church insists on it – the highest honour possible to one of the Father’s special creatures.
When it comes to ‘particular’ devotions to her under specific titles relating to apparitions e.g. Lourdes and Fatima; these are devotions approved by the church but not imposed as a necessary belief in order to remain a Catholic. I certainly have no faith in either of those I have mentioned. It was far too convenient that the Blessed Mother should give her name to Bernadette as ‘I am the immaculate conception’ when Pope Pius IX had only just declared the dogma to be true and a necessary belief for Catholics. Fatima too was far too political re. the conversion of Russia etc.
However, I do have a great devotion to the Blessed Mother under her title ‘Lady of Walsingham’:
No apparitions there, just a desire in 1061 on the part of the lady of the manor of Walsingham in Norfolk, England to make known the Incarnation and indeed Mary’s part in it. In almost 1000 years since the foundation of the shrine lots of obviously pious stories arose e.g. Angels moving the replica Holy House because it had been built a few feet to far to the left (or was it the right!). These tales are usually taken with a pinch of salt these days and rightly so as they only provide unnecessary obstacles in the way of those seeking the ultimate truth held in the treasury of faith within the Catholic Church.
Keep your faith in God and love his Blessed Mother as your own, and you will not go far wrong.
God bless you and may our Lady of Walsingham pray for you.
 
colincatholic said:
Having been a Catholic now for 40 years or so (slightly longer than I was a protestant) I am still baffled by the excessive devotion –almost adoration in some cases – given to the Blessed Mother by some Catholics. Redemption comes through the blood of Jesus alone. The Incarnation was essential for the Redemption of mankind from the power of Sin i.e. the Devil, and Mary played a vital role by her Fiat when she gave an uncompromising ‘yes’ to the Father, and for that she deserves - and the church insists on it – the highest honour possible to one of the Father’s special creatures.
When it comes to ‘particular’ devotions to her under specific titles relating to apparitions e.g. Lourdes and Fatima; these are devotions approved by the church but not imposed as a necessary belief in order to remain a Catholic. I certainly have no faith in either of those I have mentioned. It was far too convenient that the Blessed Mother should give her name to Bernadette as ‘I am the immaculate conception’ when Pope Pius IX had only just declared the dogma to be true and a necessary belief for Catholics.
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Did you actually read about Bernadette or know anything about her circumstances? She could neither read nor write. She was very sickly as a girl and didn’t go to school. The dogma of the IC was not taught to school children at the time. IOW, she’d never heard of it. There was no internet, no general knowledge of theology as there is now. Bernadette had no idea what her Lady meant by the expression–the priest had to explain it to her. Indeed, he was astonished that she had even said the words. The Church fully investigated her and her apparitions–she never lied and never said one word more than her Lady had related to her–she had no ego problem and had no motivations other than love of God.

I think your Protestant background is still speaking to you here. While we are not expected to believe in apparitions, we are to believe the Church has the right and duty to investigate such things and make pronouncements on them. Your comments sound like the Church did a sloppy job–I hope you don’t mean that because it’s simply not the case. Bernadette suffered for being so favored. The rest of her life she was shown off and made to retell her experiences and was accused of wanting attention when all she wanted was to be unknown and to serve God as he wished. It’s no treat to go through the kind of intense scrutiny she endured. I’m sure I wouldn’t want it.
Fatima too was far too political re. the conversion of Russia etc.
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Again, how much do you actually know about the circumstances and the children who had the visions? Portugal was going through a time of hard persecutions and atheism was gaining much ground there and in Russia. It threatened, and still threatens to take over the lives of millions. We think we live in isolation from the horrors of persecution, but we don’t. Fatima reminds us of that–it should keep us on our knees, which is why Our Lady said what she did and asked for the consecration of Russia.
However, I do have a great devotion to the Blessed Mother under her title ‘Lady of Walsingham’:
No apparitions there, just a desire in 1061 on the part of the lady of the manor of Walsingham in Norfolk, England to make known the Incarnation and indeed Mary’s part in it. In almost 1000 years since the foundation of the shrine lots of obviously pious stories arose e.g. Angels moving the replica Holy House because it had been built a few feet to far to the left (or was it the right!). These tales are usually taken with a pinch of salt these days and rightly so as they only provide unnecessary obstacles in the way of those seeking the ultimate truth held in the treasury of faith within the Catholic Church.
Keep your faith in God and love his Blessed Mother as your own, and you will not go far wrong.
God bless you and may our Lady of Walsingham pray for you.
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The only obstacles are those people erect in their own hearts and minds in matters on which the Church has spoken. Devotion to the Holy House, for instance, has been encourage, not censured by the Church. Certainly no Catholic needs to be devoted to any apparition or miraculous event outside of divine revelation, but they are not obstacles but helps if we are willing to allow that God sends us these things to show us, as needed, that he is active in our world. We need such helps because we are multi-dimensional beings, not just rational creatures. We have 5 senses not just reason and use them to help us understand and take in experiences as a part of seeing the truth. If Walsingham speaks to you, that’s great, but please don’t pass on your negative opinions of other Church approved shrines/miracles simply because they don’t appeal to you. 🙂
 
To get a real feel for Fatima’s essential place in world history and revelation I suggest you go here to this site. Spend time.

It is essential we pray for the Pope that he consecrate Russia to the Immaculate heart of Mary ASAP. As we all know, the time is short. It is all of our duty to obey our Lady by heeding her request for these prayers as well as the first five saturdays devotion.
Please become aware and do all you should by watching the speakers at this conference.

fatimayourlastchance.com/…bpage&Itemid=8

God Bless all and may this spread like fire !!!
 
Link doesn’t work, and I thought Russia was consecrated years ago
 
I thought the consecration was done too for years until I watched this. If the link still doesn’t work you can go to Fatima Network online. There is even Fatima TV now. The speeches John Salza and Christopher Ferrera were especially riveting to start with. Father Gruner and Father Paul Kramer are good too. If nothing else you can google the names.
anxious too here from those who watched
I am joining this movement, I hope you can too. God Bless. Our Lady of Fatima Pray for us.

fatimayourlastchance.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=31:watch-the-conference&catid=7:watch-hubpage&Itemid=8
 
In response to the OP, your concern is normal as I encountered much of the same during RCIA. I think it is important to note that neither Jesus nor Mary sought glorification for themselves. The fact that people do this, well, it is what it is. In the protestant world, it appears to me there is more glorification of Jesus, rather than actually following him and adhering to His teachings. Following Jesus requires much sacrifice and with all do respect to protestants, they also like to enjoy the ways of the world i.e. careers, status, etc. So when other people appear to be glorifying someone else, your “protestant button” gets pushed. Remember, God chose Mary to have and raise Jesus.
 
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