Marian Teachings in East and West

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Mary’s freedom from Original Sin did not prevent her from being tempted any more than being free from Original Sin prevented Adam, Eve, and even Jesus Christ from being tempted. Mary still had free will, and leaving aside possible complications regarding predestination which would be too much of a distraction on this thread, she very much could have chosen to sin during her life. Her freedom from Original Sin and its spiritual consequences is what makes more naturally credible the assertion that she went through a full lifespan without ever committing even a single venial sin, but it doesn’t change the fact that she had free will and could have sinned just like the first Eve.
I believe its not taught that Mary was free from temptation, but that the graces she received from God allowed her to resist temptation. That is why perhaps Adam and Eve’s sin is so profound in that being full of grace from creation, they can be tempted and should have the graces to resist it, but still chose to defy God.
 
It means that her assent of faith, like ours, was made possible only by grace, not by any natural power possessed by her. Of course her will retained the ability to reject that grace, but she did not.
🙂 If sin is spiritual and material slavery, then is the will to sin truly free, or is it a license to practice human bondage?

M.
 
I believe its not taught that Mary was free from temptation, but that the graces she received from God allowed her to resist temptation. That is why perhaps Adam and Eve’s sin is so profound in that being full of grace from creation, they can be tempted and should have the graces to resist it, but still chose to defy God.
Right… maybe. Remember that we are all given sufficient grace to resist any temptation. That’s why we are morally culpable if we do fall into sin. The big difference was that Adam, Eve, and Mary were not in our fallen condition in which we tend to fall into sin through a sort of moral entropy. Since they met temptation starting in a state of perfect acceptance of God’s will and perfect virtue, and with a strong will and enlightened intellect, for them to then choose to reject God would be a tremendous sin.

Whether they as adults were furthermore given additional or stronger actual graces compared to what we are offered I don’t know.
 
Does the Catholic faith teach that Mary was absolutely without any actual sin during her life, including venial sin?
 
Dear Dcointin,

Absolutely - and the Orthodox Church affirms this liturgically. Mary, the Most Holy Mother of the Divine Word, had no sin. Yes, some Church Fathers like Chrysostom insisted she was culpable of venial sin. But this is simply a personal view that never entered into the prayer/teaching of the Church.

And to paraphrase St John Damascene: “Just because a few sparrows have sung does not mean that spring is here . . .”

Alex
 
I believe its not taught that Mary was free from temptation, but that the graces she received from God allowed her to resist temptation. That is why perhaps Adam and Eve’s sin is so profound in that being full of grace from creation, they can be tempted and should have the graces to resist it, but still chose to defy God.
I really don’t think Mary resisted as much as she trusted. I think it is important to understand what Adam and Eve were faced with.

Our artwork depects them in the beaucholic garden with a snake wrapped around a tree, maybe with it’s tounge sticking out. But this is misleading. They were face to face with the tempter himself. They were face to face with Satan himself. And Satan is the father of lies.

***But the snake said to the woman: “You certainly will not die!" *(Genesis 3:4)

Satan lied. Whether they ate or did not eat, they were going to die. If they ate, which they did, they died. But if they didn’t eat, then Satan was going to kill them. And that was where they went wrong. They didn’t trust that if they refused to eat and that if Satan killed them for not eating, that God would have raised them from the dead. They had no faith in God. They didn’t trust God. Sure, they disobeyed God, but at the end of the day, their lack of trust in God, that he was able to raise them from the dead. Their lack of faith, of trust in God was their fatal flaw, and what led to disobedience.

This is what makes Abraham so special. He is the Father of Faith. He was the first one in all of creation to believe, to trust, to have faith in God, that God could raise someone from the dead.

By faith Abraham, when put to the test, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was ready to offer his only son, of whom it was said, “Through Isaac descendants shall bear your name.” He reasoned that God was able to raise even from the dead, and he received Isaac back as a symbol. (Hebrews 11:17-19)

We often speak about faith, and grace in the context of freewill, and the strength to resist temptation, and obedience. But there is the issue of trust. God is our Father. He wants us not to obey him, but to trust him.

As you put it, both Mary and our first parents were full of Grace. Then why did Adam and Eve fail while Mary succeeded? I think it was trust. Mary trusted God while out first parents did not.

But Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34)

Mary is puzzled. She does not understand. This is her moment of doubt, of questioning, of temptation not to obey, not to trust. She is human. It is only natural. So she asks how it can be and the angel explains, and she does what Adam and Eve were not able to do. She trusts. She doesn’t rely on some strength to resist. She trusts God at his word.

Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word. (Luke 1:38)

And her cousin Elizabeth praises her for her trust.

Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled. (Like 1:45)

Elizabeth doesn’t say, “Blessed are you who resisted the tempation to disobey and say no.” Elizabeth praises her belief, her faith, her trust. And Mary sings to God, thanking him for fulfilling his promise made to Abraham a two thousand years beforehand which she believed in.

He has helped Israel his servant,
remembering his mercy,
according to his promise to our fathers,
to Abraham and to his descendants forever
.
(Luke 1:54-55)


In Christ, God fulfills the promise he made to Abraham and all mankind. And in Mary is the fulfillment of all trust, a complete reversal of the lack of trust which Adam and Eve exhibited and the fullness of all the trust Moses and Abraham had and which the nation of Israel lacked over and over and over. If Jesus is Truth incarnate, then Mary is Trust incarnate.

I really don’t think Mary resisted as much as she trusted. Blindly. Like holding your Father’s hand while he leads you through a scary, dark place. He says, “Trust me. I know were we are going.” And we ask, “How can this be. It’s dark. I can’t see.” And our Father says, “Trust me. I know.”

Maybe I’m wrong. I’m here on an Eastern forum and maybe I have unknowingly offended some. I apologize. I only speak for myself that every time I try to resist, I fall short. But when I trust God, I do the right thing. And that is what I think Mary did. I’m no theologian. This is just my own experience.

-Tim-
 
***But the snake said to the woman: “You certainly will not die!" ***(Genesis 3:4)

Satan lied. Whether they ate or did not eat, they were going to die. If they ate, which they did, they died. But if they didn’t eat, then Satan was going to kill them. And that was where they went wrong. They didn’t trust that if they refused to eat and that if Satan killed them for not eating, that God would have raised them from the dead. They had no faith in God. They didn’t trust God. Sure, they disobeyed God, but at the end of the day, their lack of trust in God, that he was able to raise them from the dead. Their lack of faith, of trust in God was their fatal flaw, and what led to disobedience.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard that the serpent would have killed Adam and Eve had they not eaten the fruit. Do you happen to know of any fathers perhaps who held this view?
 
“How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34)

these words were written for your salvation, and should never be used to impugn the very Theotokos.

peace
 
I don’t think I’ve ever heard that the serpent would have killed Adam and Eve had they not eaten the fruit. Do you happen to know of any fathers perhaps who held this view?
I don’t but I remember hearing a talk that explained that the ‘serpent’ in the Creation story wasn’t a common garden snake. The Hebrew word for the serpent was Nahash. In the ‘Understanding the Scripture’ Bible Study they interpret the Nahash’s interaction with Eve as more intimidating in nature then a benign conversation, which would explain why Adam didn’t intervene.
 
I don’t think I’ve ever heard that the serpent would have killed Adam and Eve had they not eaten the fruit. Do you happen to know of any fathers perhaps who held this view?
I’ve heard it here and there. I have no citation. But I have heard it from Jeff Cavins and other sources which I can’t remember.

I ask myself what Satan would have done if Adam and Eve had refused? Would Satan have just sulked and slithered away? And I find it plausable that Satan would have reacted violently.

Either way, Adam and Eve failed to trust that God would somehow save them, one way or another, if they refused.

-Tim-
 
Satan had no power over Adam and Eve untiil they sinned. He could not have killed them.

Peace and God bless!
 
Why wouldn’t they know they had dominion over the world abd immortality?
They were humble? I dunno… but the serpent intimidating them makes more sense to me then Eve just up and disobeying God, who had given them dominion in the first place. It also makes more sense then Adam just letting her and doing nothing to intervene…
 
Why wouldn’t they know they had dominion over the world abd immortality?
They had not yet eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. So there were things they did not know. So again: Would they know that Satan had no dominion over them? If the serpent was Satan rather than one of his minions.
 
“How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?” (Luke 1:34)

these words were written for your salvation, and should never be used to impugn the very Theotokos.

peace
this should read our salvation, not your. sorry for any offense.

peace
 
They had not yet eaten of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. So there were things they did not know. So again: Would they know that Satan had no dominion over them? If the serpent was Satan rather than one of his minions.
They were told by God that they had dominion and they knew of the Tree of Life. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil had no bearing on those things; it was a very specific knowledge the fruit provided, not general knowledge.

Peace and God bless!
 
They were humble? I dunno… but the serpent intimidating them makes more sense to me then Eve just up and disobeying God, who had given them dominion in the first place. It also makes more sense then Adam just letting her and doing nothing to intervene…
People commit more obvious sins with less temptation all the time. Adam and Eve committed grave evil, no need to sugar coat it or give mitigation.

Peace and God bless!
 
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