marital crisis

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deronda

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Hi. I’m new here. I’ve been married to my H. for around 15 years. He is a strictly practicing Catholic. I am a reform Jew, minimally active in Judaism.

I am seriously going through midlife crisis. I don’t know if I want to stay married to my husband. We have never had a good sex life.

My H is older than me. He has always been a spiritual role model, a confidant, and a great friend. He is kind, smart, a man of integrity, etc. etc.

When we met, we formed an immediate bond. He turned me from an agnostic to a believer. He said he was in love with me, and I thought I was in love with him. When we decided to marry, his friends asked him how, when he views Christ as central to his core identity, could he marry someone who rejects Christ? He said he had prayed about it and God would help us move forward. He never assumed I would convert.

My desire for sex with him was already very low by the time we got married. At his insistance, we waited three years, until marriage, before having intercouse, but we lived together and slept in the same bed. My H. now says he regrets living together. I regret waiting to have sex. Deep down, I never believed in waiting, but I went along with it out of trust for his greater understanding and spirituality.

Fast forward to now, we have two children. Like I said, he has always desired me sexually, whereas I have never hungered for him that way. Sex has always been a struggle for us, and there are times when we go for months without it. In fact, that is more the norm. For all the years of our marriage we have tried different methods of trying to awaken a stronger sexual desire in me for him, but it has never worked for long. There are issues of physical chemistry, as well as the spiritual issues. I think part of me is afraid of being emotionally/spiritually subsumed by him.

Now we are done having children. We both agree that we don’t want any more. I’ve been depressed, on meds and seeing a counselor. I’ve been a stay at home mom for nine years, and I’m ready to get a job and begin the second half of my life, with my kds in school. I want to have a tubaligation, but he is adamantly against it. He says he will lose respect for me if I have one, even though he admits that, in his words, “It would devastate you to have another child.” In addition to his religious objections to the procedure, he says that since we have so little sex anyway, having surgery for bc would be wasteful.

I feel that I have lost respect for him, and for God as my H portays Him. How could God want to put me at risk for something that would be mentally and emotionally devastating? And why did God lead me into a marriage that is and always has been more of a roommate/friendship or paternal type relationship?

What is worse, I am starting to feel my sex drive move into a higher gear than ever before, but my desires are not for my husband. Perhaps my feelings toward him were never romantic, since I can’t even remember whether we had intercourse on our honeymoon. I was so caught up in the spiritual whirlwind he swept me up in, when he introduced me to God. I think I mistook that, along with my deep respect for H, for romantic love.

Now that our mutual respect is eroding, I’m starting to think that our entire marriage has been a big mistake. I don’t share his values. I don’t satisfy him sexually. His career is related to the Church and yet I will never be a Catholic. (I’ve agreed to raise our kids Catholic in deference to him.)

The last time we discussed the birth control issue, he said he would rather have a celibate marriage than see me have my tubes tied. Hearing this, I was shocked at my internal reaction: That, while I could probably go the rest of my life never again having sex with this man, I don’t want to live the rest of my life never having sex again!? I want a romantic life.

I don’t know what to do. He is a good man. I don’t want to hurt him, or my children, but this is my life too.

Thank you for reading such a long post. Your thoughts are appreciated.
 
Wow - that’s a lot. I don’t have much to say to you except that he is not “this man”, he is your husband. I hope you will some how be able to get beyond your issues - you certainly have plenty of them.

One question I do have - what makes you think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence? How do you know that your sexual dysfunction is directly related to your husband just because you are now becoming sexually “awakened”, obviously, by other men? There is nothing to say that this issue would not follow you to another relationship. Just something to consider.

I wish you the best, and warn you ahead of time that things could get ugly here for you. You have stated a lot of things that might get the natives a bite riled up. 🙂 Hopefully everyone can be charitable and helpful.

God’s Blessings and Grace be upon your marriage.

~Liza
 
Have you discussed or considered Natural Family Planning (NFP)?
If not, I’m surprised… since you mentioned he worked for the church in some aspect? Natural Family Planning is a method of monitoring your fertility, giving you and your husband the ability to prayerfully consider whether or not to engage in sexual relations when you are fertile. If not, you can abstain during that fertile time… which isn’t long at all.

My FIRST recommendation would be to look into marital counseling. I’m not educated in all the available programs… but many here have mentioned a fantastic program called Retrouvaille… which I’m sure others will recommend on this thread…

Please do not confuse a stressful marriage situation with the “will of God”… God does not desire for you to be in this painful situation… He desires a holy, mutually-satisfying relationship…

You’ll be in my prayers…
 
Thank you both for your replies. We have discussed NFP, but I’m afraid of the margin of error. I don’t have room for any.

I realize this is a very unCatholic post. Please keep in mind that I’m not Catholic, and my H knew this when I married him.

I’m posting on these forums on purpose to get the Catholic side of things. I have already posted on a secular forum, but this is not an entirely secular situation.

Liza, you said people might get riled up by my post. I hope other posters will respectful, as I am already having reservations about my deep involvement with the Church. I’m perfectly willing to read orthodox responses, but I will get turned off really fast by personal attacks. Thank you.
 
deronda said:
I’m posting on these forums on purpose to get the Catholic side of things. I have already posted on a secular forum, but this is not an entirely secular situation.
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What is it, specifically, are you look for from the “Catholic side of things”? I mean, we can tell you things like - marriage is forever, it is a sin to have your tubes tied or use birthcontrol, everything you probably already know given your husband’s involvement with the Church. So - what are you looking for from us?

Not trying to be nasty, just trying to pin point where we can possibly help you though this difficult time, and not just tell you things you already know.

~Liza
 
Welcome deronda:)

I am sorry for your marital struggles. I was separated from my husband about 8 years ago…our struggles stemmed from perhaps my not knowing what marriage was really supposed to be like, and also my unresolved issues from my childhood–looking to my husband for healing of that. I say that often on here, but you have a few issues going on and I don’t think all of them can be resolved if you were to become Catholic. I don’t think it’s an issue completely, of that fact that you are Jewish, and your husband is Catholic. There are some philosophical things, such as the Church’s view on tubal ligation, but that won’t resolve your pain.

So, at the risk of sounding like I beat a dead horse (please forgive me everyone) I would like to ask you deronda if there are any unresolved issues from your past, that you were hoping marriage could heal? I ask because I actually had a tough time ‘respecting’ my husband after a few years of marriage, when I realized I still had an emptiness. That emptiness stemmed from unresolved pain in my life. I didn’t know that, but when I became more involved with going to Church–when I went to confession–when I started reading Catholic books on grief, etc…I realized that I looked at my husband as more of a rescuer, than a partner in life. I looked at him in a somewhat downward way, at times, because he wasn’t able to replace what I had missed as a child. I am not saying this is you, but sometimes we look to marriage to resolve something for us, or be something that it was never intended to be. And if I were to leave my husband back then–those unresolved feelings would have trailed behind me right into another relationship. I think that if you perhaps keep a journal of your thoughts dating back to what you found appealing about your husband to begin with–you’ll see what I’m talking about. Of course, becoming Catholic would be a great thing too…😉 😃 But, one thing at a time. I wil keep you in my prayers, deronda…and please pm me if you ever want to talk.:o
 
Go to the Mary Foundation web-site and get the audio talk “Marriage and the Eucharist” by Christopher West. It is a great talk about the one flesh union and covenental love. It changed me. The temptations wont stop but you will handle them better because your hearts desire will be different. The anxiety and depression that will accompany should you indulge in fantasy will drive you insane and leave you feeling dead and hopeless. I know because thats what happened to me. Your marriage is beautiful…dont give up on it. I suggest as well going to Retrouville or Marriage Encounter. Please check into all the suggestions.
 
lizaanne said:
What is it, specifically, are you look for from the “Catholic side of things”? I mean, we can tell you things like - marriage is forever, it is a sin to have your tubes tied or use birthcontrol, everything you probably already know given your husband’s involvement with the Church. So - what are you looking for from us?

Not trying to be nasty, just trying to pin point where we can possibly help you though this difficult time, and not just tell you things you already know.

~Liza
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That is a good question. I guess I felt posters here could better understand what is at the heart of our problems. Our problems are largely spiritual.

On the secular boards where I post, there are some practicing Catholics who have recommended NFP, but as you’d expect, the majority of posters thought he was being controlling for not consenting to the tubal ligation and that he needs to give in on that one as it is my body, etc. etc. I feel they don’t understand H’s point of view, and I knew people on here would understand it perfectly. What you might also understand is why he is unwilling to compromise on this one.

The thing is, I am 100% closed to the idea of having another child. And I feel justified in this stance. This is actually the first time I have disagreed with my H about something big and held my ground. In most cases when we disagree about big things, I suspect deep down that he is right and I’m mistaken. He doesn’t subscribe to moral relativism, and has taught me the same. If one of us has to be wrong on a moral issue, I usually assume it is me. He is the one who prays daily. He is the one who spends hours thinking about the intricacies of these issues.

But I know one thing I’m not wrong about: I cannot emotionally survive parenting a third child. I don’t care if it is wrong. I cannot do it. So where is the room for compromise on this? An abortion would be absolutely impossible. So it is either celibacy or surgery,

This same subordination of my ideas to his that have gone on for the last fifteen years have probably contributed to eroding my already fragile physical attraction for him. It makes him more like a father figure than a husband. It makes me feel like the “wrong” person in the marriage, which breeds resentment.

I guess I wanted to see if others such as yourself would say, well, your H is right. You need to change. Accept what he’s saying because it is the Truth. Maybe I wanted to see what it would feel like to hear other disinterested parties say that because if it sounded and felt right then it would help me concede to him, and if it felt horrible and wrong, then it would help me know I need to follow my own instincts and the values I was brought up with.
 
whatevergirl said:
Welcome deronda:)
I would like to ask you deronda if there are any unresolved issues from your past, that you were hoping marriage could heal?
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Absolutely, yes. I had finally found someone I could trust, who was a straight arrow. I’d had a string of relationships based in dishonesty. My H is the most honest man I’ve ever met. He is actually almost saint-like in his goodness. I think this does wonders for my feelings of security, but, unfortunately, it makes me feel like the angel on my shoulder, (you know the one who whispers in your ear about the right thing to do?) has grown life-sized and wants me to have sex with him.

In addition, as I have matured from a girl’s mentality to a woman’s, the things I need have changed. I’ve become less dependent on him to help me discern right from wrong. I don’t feel as emotionally insecure and as in need of another person to help me find stability. As I look at a marriage in which I don’t need those things, I ask myself, what do I need from him? And I’m not sure of the answer. And when I ask myself, what does he need from me? I am faced with the fact that many of the core things he needs from me I’m not sure I can give. I’m not sure I can give him the kind of physical/emotional intimacy he wants because, as the other poster was saying, Catholicism sees marriage and sex as a communing of souls. If I reject Christ and he accepts Christ, how I can I comfortably commune with him in that manner without feeling subsumed by something I can never accept? Isn’t it cruel of me to not give that to him? But how can I?
 
This Catholic sees marriage as a vocation. It is a sacrament, because both DH and I are baptized. As you are Jewish, I assume you have not been baptized, so, your marriage would be valid and natural - however, not sacramental.

The “communion of souls” idea seems a bit on the romantic side to me, and I have never read that phrase in offical Catholic documents on marriage. When I google that phrase, it does not bring up any Catholic references.

The goal of marriage as I understand Catholic teaching is for each spouse to help the other get to heaven, to raise children who also get to heaven and to be witnesses to the world and help all those around us get to heaven.

Does your husband put God first, and does he do everything he can to help you on the path to heaven? Is he leading your children to heaven? If you have that, you have so much.

Is your husband your best friend? Do you two just like each other, just hanging out? If so, you are blessed!

Romance and fireworks are nice, they ebb and flow in real marriage. It is human nature to get restless and start looking for green grass, the goal is to rise above those base desires.

Really, try Retrouville.
 
deronda said:
But I know one thing I’m not wrong about: I cannot emotionally survive parenting a third child. I don’t care if it is wrong. I cannot do it. So where is the room for compromise on this?
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Hi Denora. Peace be with you.

Unfortulately in the Catholic Teachings, there is no compromise.

There are only 3things you can do as a married couple that subscribe to Catholic Teaching:
  1. Have sex without charting or calculating or anything and see what happens.
  2. Use NFP as a way to space Children.
  3. Abstain (But as the Bible say, oly for a short while and then only by Mutual consent)
This is a very strict and tough teaching to come to terms with.

I have no solutions for you, but from a Catholic Perspective, unfortunately there is no compromise in the teachings whatsoever.
 
kage_ar said:
This Catholic sees marriage as a vocation. It is a sacrament, because both DH and I are baptized. As you are Jewish, I assume you have not been baptized, so, your marriage would be valid and natural - however, not sacramental.
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True, I understand that.
The “communion of souls” idea seems a bit on the romantic side to me, and I have never read that phrase in offical Catholic documents on marriage. When I google that phrase, it does not bring up any Catholic references.
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My own wording. But the concept is there. See below from Catholic education.org:
Marriage calls for a mutual self-surrender so intimate and complete that spouses — without losing their individuality — become “one,” not only in body, but in soul.
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catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0096.html
Does your husband put God first, and does he do everything he can to help you on the path to heaven? Is he leading your children to heaven? If you have that, you have so much.

Is your husband your best friend? Do you two just like each other, just hanging out? If so, you are blessed!
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Yes to both questions. So I can safely say he is like a spiritual leader and friend to me.
Romance and fireworks are nice, they ebb and flow in real marriage. It is human nature to get restless and start looking for green grass, the goal is to rise above those base desires.
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True, and it is possible that this is what is going on in my marriage. I’m really not certain. I feel very confused.
 
AeroChunky said:
Hi Denora. Peace be with you.

Unfortulately in the Catholic Teachings, there is no compromise.

There are only 3things you can do as a married couple that subscribe to Catholic Teaching:
  1. Have sex without charting or calculating or anything and see what happens.
  2. Use NFP as a way to space Children.
  3. Abstain (But as the Bible say, oly for a short while and then only by Mutual consent)
This is a very strict and tough teaching to come to terms with.

I have no solutions for you, but from a Catholic Perspective, unfortunately there is no compromise in the teachings whatsoever.
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Thanks. This answers some of what I was looking for. I simply don’t agree with this. But I’m not here to argue with anyone about it. I’m just trying to see if H and I have any common ground to work with. So I guess only one member of this couple subscribes to it. That is the problem.

Interestingly, when you’re young and not yet married, you think about how you’re going to plan the wedding and how you’re going to raise the kids, but not necessarily how to stop having kids.
 
deronda said:
Interestingly, when you’re young and not yet married, you think about how you’re going to plan the wedding and how you’re going to raise the kids, but not necessarily how to stop having kids.
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When you are a faithful Catholic, this is not up to you. So it’s not even a consideration.

~Liza
 
deronda,

Don’t know if I overlooked it, but do you mind me asking how old you are?
 
deronda said:
Thanks. This answers some of what I was looking for. I simply don’t agree with this. But I’m not here to argue with anyone about it. I’m just trying to see if H and I have any common ground to work with. So I guess only one member of this couple subscribes to it. That is the problem.
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I understand. I have been trying to think of what to say to you for advice and comfort, but it’s a very difficult situation.

One the one hand you are not obliged to follow Catholic Teachings, but on the other hand you are called to be a partner to your husband.
It’s a real touchy issue.

The thing that makes such a problem even bigger, is that the Catholic Teachings are so rigid in this. It’s not like your husband can find a loophole to accomodate the situation and still remain a 100% Faithful Catholic…so, as far as the Catholic teaching goes, it’s gonna have to be you that does the changing…and that is tough. I guess that is also why you sought out the Catholic Foum on this.
I’m sorry if this came across as a harsh statement.
I really feel for your situation.
Interestingly, when you’re young and not yet married, you think about how you’re going to plan the wedding and how you’re going to raise the kids, but not necessarily how to stop having kids.
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True, but from a Catholic point of view, we are not allowed to even consider stop having kids. That is a sin for Catholics.
Kage_ar said:
Romance and fireworks are nice, they ebb and flow in real marriage. It is human nature to get restless and start looking for green grass, the goal is to rise above those base desires.
Click to expand...
True, and it is possible that this is what is going on in my marriage. I’m really not certain. I feel very confused.
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I am truly hopiung that it may just be a mild mid-life crisis and with prayer and submission this time of trial will pass.
But I also have to admit that sexual intimacy is very much a part of a human being and I can understand the craving you feel for that. That is the kind of feelings that you should be able to realise with your spouse and a I can understand that a life without that will leave you feeling this way.

I’ll pray for you and your situation and pray that inside you the feelings that are proper will be stirred for your husband and that he will respond with tenderness and love towards you.
 
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