Mark Levin speech: U.S. has become a post-constitutional government heading toward utopian tyranny

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Nec5 said:
I think what can happen is that you can start off with the perfectly moral and correct philosophy of “work hard to get ahead” and it starts to morph into what you’re complaining about: “you aren’t as successful because you didn’t work hard”. This morphing often occurs because it easy to run into people that abuse the system and never lift a finger. However, it’s wrong to use that experience to begin blaming all the poor for their various situations.

I think this ties into why charity is supposed to be done on a individual or local level (subsidiarity) because we can then help the needy and downtrodden and not waste our finite help on abusers and scammers. Of course, this assumes that people are charitable.
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There IS a realistic correlation to worldly success and hard work. It’s not necessarily judgmental to acknowledge that. You could acknowledge it in a judgmental way but you don’t have to. You could also argue that those who are less worried about worldly success are stronger in a spiritual sense because they perceive the futility of materialistic living, there’s two ways of looking at it.

And my point in response to the other poster was only that this “we’re better than everyone else” attitude was something HE stirred into the conversation only to then imply that everyone else had that attitude…when in reality he was the only one even talking about it. I am in a position at work and at home to see that kind of attitude, and I’m just not seeing it. It’s very VERY easy for everyone I know to count their blessings without taking on the type of attitude he projected onto others.
 
It makes me sick when I hear people interpret our continuing loss of freedom in America in light of conditions in third world countries, i,e “Just be glad you don’t live in a country where soldiers or police can kick in your door in the middle of the night and take you away to a place where you’re never from again”. Imagine if we the people stated the otherside of that argument ? “The police should be thankful that we don’t bomb and shoot up there headquarters, the way some militants in Iraq and other places have”.
 
babylonsfalling said:
There IS a realistic correlation to worldly success and hard work. It’s not necessarily judgmental to acknowledge that. You could acknowledge it in a judgmental way but you don’t have to. You could also argue that those who are less worried about worldly success are stronger in a spiritual sense because they perceive the futility of materialistic living, there’s two ways of looking at it.

And my point in response to the other poster was only that this “we’re better than everyone else” attitude was something HE stirred into the conversation only to then imply that everyone else had that attitude…when in reality he was the only one even talking about it. I am in a position at work and at home to see that kind of attitude, and I’m just not seeing it. It’s very VERY easy for everyone I know to count their blessings without taking on the type of attitude he projected onto others.
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The people that typically have this air of superiority are the very same people who feel entitled to other people’s money. Its amazing how the two go hand in hand. Most hard-working productive people I know love and appreciate other people. People who spend their lives sponging off other people take them for granted.
 
Seamus_L said:
It makes me sick when I hear people interpret our continuing loss of freedom in America in light of conditions in third world countries, i,e “Just be glad you don’t live in a country where soldiers or police can kick in your door in the middle of the night and take you away to a place where you’re never from again”.<—Makes you sick? That’s ridiculous…you SHOULD be glad you don’t live in such a country. Imagine if we the people stated the otherside of that argument ? “The police should be thankful that we don’t bomb and shoot up there headquarters, the way some militants in Iraq and other places have”.<—That’s a sensible look at the other side of the coin. But it also proves that people in this country feel no need to bomb police headquarters…that’s because the huge majority of us understand that we aren’t living under an oppressive tyranny. We are free and have no reason to be doing those things.
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So both the govt AND the people have reason to be thankful for living in this country. Sorry to shine a little light on your dark perspective.

In Iran they are taking protesters, putting them inside metal boxes with an air-hole drilled into the top, then taking the metal boxes out into the 120 degree desert and setting them there to cook the people inside until they are driven mad. That’s a place where losing freedoms is an everyday hardcore life and death reality.

And I’m supposed to take seriously the complaints I hear from my fellow Americans.

Much like so called poverty in America compared to real poverty overseas.

Do you realize how many people overseas would love to suffer the so called “loss of freedoms” that Americans complain about?

And you still complain about being made sick about the notion of being thankful?!

Maybe you should ask yourself why the idea of being thankful makes you sick?
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
The people that typically have this air of superiority are the very same people who feel entitled to other people’s money. Its amazing how the two go hand in hand. Most hard-working productive people I know love and appreciate other people. People who spend their lives sponging off other people take them for granted.
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REALLY…My part of town is where homeless people congregate so I get asked for money lots of times and I’ve still never gotten the impression from any of those folk that they thought they were superior to me.

In truth, the only person in this thread that’s shown any kind of air of superiority is you when you were projecting it onto others who think we should be grateful for our blessings. Now you’re projecting onto another group of people. I’ve not seen that air of superiority from either group. You’re the only one talking about notions of people thinking they’re better than everyone else.
 
babylonsfalling said:
REALLY…My part of town is where homeless people congregate so I get asked for money lots of times and I’ve still never gotten the impression from any of those folk that they thought they were superior to me.

In truth, the only person in this thread that’s shown any kind of air of superiority is you when you were projecting it onto others who think we should be grateful for our blessings. Now you’re projecting onto another group of people. I’ve not seen that air of superiority from either group. You’re the only one talking about notions of people thinking they’re better than everyone else.
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I haven’t projected anything. You have been the one judging me every time I post. Look in the mirror.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
You don’t think we are living in a police state? I say take your head out of the sand.
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I would ask someone who has lived in a real police state if they think America is a police state. Ask someone who lived in Poland, East Germany or the Soviet Union. Ask someone who escaped North Korea (if you can find one). If you really lived in a police state, do you think you could be writing the comments you’re writing? Maybe we live in a theoretical police state (and even that is a stretch), as opposed to an actual one.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
I would ask someone who has lived in a real police state if they think America is a police state. Ask someone who lived in Poland, East Germany or the Soviet Union. Ask someone who escaped North Korea (if you can find one). If you really lived in a police state, do you think you could be writing the comments you’re writing? Maybe we live in a theoretical police state (and even that is a stretch), as opposed to an actual one.

Ishii
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So we actually have to get to the point where uniformed officers roam the streets demanding that people produce their papers before we do anything about the growing encroachment of law enforcment and the invasion of our privacy before we do anything? I have alreayd posted links demonstrating the staggering loss of liberty and privacy we have suffered since 9/11. Like I said, if you annot take an honest look at it, I don’t have the energy to try to convince you.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
So we actually have to get to the point where uniformed officers roam the streets demanding that people produce their papers before we do anything about the growing encroachment of law enforcment and the invasion of our privacy before we do anything? I have alreayd posted links demonstrating the staggering loss of liberty and privacy we have suffered since 9/11. Like I said, if you annot take an honest look at it, I don’t have the energy to try to convince you.
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Well, the question is do we have a police state or not. If you say, we are heading to a possible police state or that we are in danger of losing our liberties such that someday down the road we might find that we live in a police state then I might be inclined to agree. But you said, “we are living in a police state”. Its perfectly legitimate to ask someone who has lived in a real police state if they think America is a police state. Its perfectly okay to question what you’re saying without being accused of having my head in the sand. Please.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
Well, the question is do we have a police state or not. If you say, we are heading to a possible police state or that we are in danger of losing our liberties such that someday down the road we might find that we live in a police state then I might be inclined to agree. But you said, “we are living in a police state”. Its perfectly legitimate to ask someone who has lived in a real police state if they think America is a police state. Its perfectly okay to question what you’re saying without being accused of having my head in the sand. Please.

Ishii
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I lived in Italy for 3 years, which is a police state, and we are already there. In many instances, it is worse here. There, uniformed police officers are all over the place, but at least you can see them and know that you are living under scrutiny. The way they are setting it up here is an invisible police state, where traffic monitoring cameras with facial recognition technology and speech recording capacity are being installed in many major cities. The FBI is monitoring social networks for “suspicious activity”. The NSA monitors all telephonic conversation and records conversations for “key words”. DHS has its “See Something, Say Something” campaign. We live in a police state. You just can’t see it. Feel free to reject the notion, it is your right. 🤷 I think the evidence is overwhelming and I live my life with at least a tacit acknowledgement that our right to privacy has been compromised.
 
I define whether or not America is a police state on the basis of violations of our Constitution, not according to what people in North Korea, Iraq, etc would define as a police state.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
I lived in Italy for 3 years, which is a police state, and we are already there. In many instances, it is worse here. There, uniformed police officers are all over the place, but at least you can see them and know that you are living under scrutiny. The way they are setting it up here is an invisible police state, where traffic monitoring cameras with facial recognition technology and speech recording capacity are being installed in many major cities. The FBI is monitoring social networks for “suspicious activity”. The NSA monitors all telephonic conversation and records conversations for “key words”. DHS has its “See Something, Say Something” campaign. We live in a police state. You just can’t see it. Feel free to reject the notion, it is your right. 🤷 I think the evidence is overwhelming and I live my life with at least a tacit acknowledgement that our right to privacy has been compromised.
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I can see the problem now. What you regard as a police state and what is generally regarded as a police state are two different things. A police state is more than just “uniformed police all over the place”. It is a situation in which the government uses police to control the population in a rigid and repressive way. These states are also characterized by authoritarian (but sometimes totalitarian) governments, movement is restricted, the press is censored, etc. Can you travel from Alabama to Idaho without being hassled? Yes. We do not live in a police state. Can you pretty much buy whatever you want? Say what you want? Yes. We do not live in a police state. The reason why I’m arguing this with you is because to do what you’re doing cheapens the experience of those who had to endure real police states. It might make for entertaining and dramatic hyperbole to say we live in a police state. But its far from the truth.

Ishii
 
Seamus_L said:
I define whether or not America is a police state on the basis of violations of our Constitution, not according to what people in North Korea, Iraq, etc would define as a police state.
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And I disagree with your definition. If the government bails out a corporation, would you then call America a socialist state?

Ishii
 
Nimzovik said:
Concurrence! A call to arms methinks.
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I would hope you meant that in a sarcastic/joking way. If you think that then you are playing right into Satan’s hands. Use of force is not justified just because the government has become darn near satanic in some of the stances it takes and the evil it propogates home and abroad. But this still isn’t justified to respond with violence. If you don’t like it, move. It’s that simple. I, personally, can not stand the direction america has took, which is why I’m moving when I have the money. But don’t let yourself be pushed to thinking violence will ultimately be the answer. Trust in Christ to convert through Mary and His Saints, not through force of arms.
 
babylonsfalling said:
South Korea.
So was I and it DID happen.
It was martial law which may or may not be in effect nowadays.
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Every country has martial law (not that I support it in the least). Hawaii had martial law declared throughout WWII. Canada had martial law during WWI, WWII and the 1970 crisis. There just haven’t been many large incidents within the US that would justify it in recent years, unlike South Korea since the north is always causing problems. South Korea isn’t the best example for a police state.
 
Nimzovik: A call to arms methinks.
BigFellaMick said:
I would hope you meant that in a sarcastic/joking way. If you think that then you are playing right into Satan’s hands. Use of force is not justified just because the government has become darn near satanic in some of the stances it takes and the evil it propogates home and abroad. But this still isn’t justified to respond with violence. If you don’t like it, move. It’s that simple. I, personally, can not stand the direction america has took, which is why I’m moving when I have the money. But don’t let yourself be pushed to thinking violence will ultimately be the answer. Trust in Christ to convert through Mary and His Saints, not through force of arms.
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Nimzovik: A call to arms does not nescessarily mean firearms. I assert we must take steps to rectify the stated problems. Vote. Lobby. etc. etc.

Sidebar: However I am concerned about the Liberal Media pressing to limit use/sales of fiirearms in regard to it’s citizens.
 
A note. Certainly America is developing a ‘Police State’ mentality in regard to some (many?) points. However, those that point to worse ploice states for purposes of infering that America is not a ‘Police State’ are not arguing with precision. One can not point to an Evil (example Iran is a ‘real’ Police State) to justify another Evil (America is not as bad as Iran)

I for one do not want to wait for America to get as bad as Iran before I take action to address the evil.
 
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