Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher Fired from National Catholic Register

[Joe_5859]

Ultimately, of course it’s the Register’s right to hire and fire whoever they wish.

I object most to those who have dedicated an astonishing amount of time to vilifying two authors who have done a lot of good in spreading the Good News among people who ordinarily couldn’t give a hoot about it, and then react in glee when they have accomplished what they wish.

I will admit I am not a huge fan of Mr. Shea’s “catchphrases” when it comes to politics, but his “Greatest Catholics of All Time” expression comes to mind here. These are people who posit themselves as incredibly holy and pious, and they are publicly gleeful that two people, who weren’t exactly and have never been rich, have lost their jobs. Seriously, who does that? That’s in absolutely horrid taste.

This infighting is middle school BS. We should be careful to check even privately any elation over another’s suffering, even if we feel “they had it coming.”

Yes, it’s definitely in poor taste to say the least.

I could be wrong, but it feels like that happens a lot more often in the digital age. Whenever someone offends a group of people, they clamor for that person to be fired and then rejoice if it actually happens. Not to say that there aren’t situations where an individual deserves to be terminated, but it seems to be the go-to response for some.

I always found it ironic whenever Shea would use vitriolic verbiage to call other people out for their vitriol. I found myself agreeing with his points more often than not, and appreciating his rhetorical wit and imaginative choice of words, but not always agreeing with the way he made his points.

 

[Lion_IRC]

…There’s some kind of schizophrenic disconnect going on there.

I don’t think its right to use the word ‘schizophrenic’ as a criticism. (It’s actually a mental illness.)
You are talking about other Catholics are you not?

 

[gracepoole]

Here’s one of Simcha Fisher’s most popular, well shared posts – it’s about her experience with buying steak while on food stamps:

patheos.com/blogs/simchafisher/2015/04/17/the-day-i-bought-steak-with-my-food-stamps/

What should disgust any reader of this piece:

• that a hardworking family who is trying like mad to remain financially solvent can’t
• that this family can’t afford to live anywhere except where violence and predatory behavior are common
• that this woman received a barrage of hateful, ugly comments in response to her family’s need for assistance

Yet instead, people get twitchy over her use of the “f” word. Some become indignant over the superficial and use this indignation as a reason to ignore the actually vile problems described in this piece. When people complain about her “scatological” comments, it sure seems this is what’s happening.

Of course, the Register has the right to fire whomever it pleases. That’s not really the point. One can still be dismayed and seriously disappointed that the variety of Catholic opinion circulated is being so seriously curtailed.

 

[pensmama87]

Yes, it’s definitely in poor taste to say the least.

I could be wrong, but it feels like that happens a lot more often in the digital age. Whenever someone offends a group of people, they clamor for that person to be fired and then rejoice if it actually happens. Not to say that there aren’t situations where an individual deserves to be terminated, but it seems to be the go-to response for some.

I always found it ironic whenever Shea would use vitriolic verbiage to call other people out for their vitriol. I found myself agreeing with his points more often than not, and appreciating his rhetorical wit and imaginative choice of words, but not always agreeing with the way he made his points.

I agree completely.

It seems like our own little groups are so insular these days that any challenge to that brings on the Internet mob. And we think we’ve advanced so much because we can do it while sitting on our couches instead of getting up and going outside with a literal pitchfork.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I wonder if Fisher and Shea hadn’t been warned by the Register that if they persisted in their vulgar speech and or vitriol that they would be removed. If so, Shea and Fisher continued at their own risk. I’d like to see a better statement from National Catholic Register before sounding off too much

The possible reasons these writers were fired, and the speculation about it, even the conspiracy theories, actually reminds me of speculation about why members get banned on CAF.

Now, I haven’t read Shea’s work in a while but he did not come across as the most charitable writer even, say, 2 years ago, long before Trump was anything more than just another B list Reality TV star. I’m a little more surprised by Simcha Fischer being let go, if it was based on postings outside her NCR blog, but last I checked the “f” word was not allowed on CAF, either.

And of course, banning or even “censoring” certain of the more colorful CAF posters can certainly result in “the variety of Catholic opinion circulated is being so seriously curtailed.” I can think of many posters who have come and gone and eventually been banned, and who I miss at times, but I assume CAF had good reasons for letting them go. I certainly know from personal experience that unless something is egregiously in violation of Forum rules (such as posting links to porn), that the mods DO warn posters before going for the nuclear option.

But in the end, I do think the strict CAF moderation is overall a good thing. And if posters aren’t free to post whatever they want, for NO pay at all, on CAF, then I don’t see how the NCR doesn’t have the right to decide that not all Catholic bloggers are worth being paid money to write for them.

I’m sure both Shea and Fischer will find other venues for their work.

 

[zab]

I gather that Mark Shea is at a very low broken point in his life . Whether you like his style or not or even if you agree that he has been beyond uncharitable ( the complaint of which is so ironic when spread by the ultra right ) I believe that Mark Shea is a humble man who truly believes in truth. There is room for growth in all of us. I hope that his time off will be a time of healing and growth. Why don’t we all just pray for our brother in his time of need.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

I gather that Mark Shea is at a very low broken point in his life . Whether you like his style or not or even if you agree that he has been beyond uncharitable ( the complaint of which is so ironic when spread by the ultra right ) I believe that Mark Shea is a humble man who truly believes in truth. There is room for growth in all of us. I hope that his time off will be a time of healing and growth. Why don’t we all just pray for our brother in his time of need.

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, I question the narrative that only those who disagree with Shea’s political statements, had an issue with the way he expressed them. As far as I can tell, none of the CAF posters who have defended the NCR are big Trump fans.

Last I checked there is no Church teaching that “everyone deserves charity EXCEPT those eeevil politicians”.

Now you may say then I am a hypocrite not to give the same charity to Mr. Shea, well I actually agree with the rest of what you have written. I don’t doubt that he has good intentions and is passionate about the truth, but as Pope B16 once mentioned, quoting St. Paul, truth without charity is but a clanging cymbal.

 

[zab]

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, I question the narrative that only those who disagree with Shea’s political statements, had an issue with the way he expressed them. As far as I can tell, none of the CAF posters who have defended the NCR are big Trump fans.

Last I checked there is no Church teaching that “everyone deserves charity EXCEPT those eeevil politicians”.

Now you may say then I am a hypocrite not to give the same charity to Mr. Shea, well I actually agree with the rest of what you have written. I don’t doubt that he has good intentions and is passionate about the truth, but as Pope B16 once mentioned, quoting St. Paul, truth without charity is but a clanging cymbal.

Excuse me, but I am missing your point in the criticism of my post. I never condoned any wrong or mentioned anything about political statements.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Excuse me, but I am missing your point in the criticism of my post. I never condoned any wrong or mentioned anything about political statements.

Well, you did think it relevant to throw in a parenthetical statement about “the complaint of which is so ironic when spread by the ultra right” and even threw in an eye-rolling smilie.

And, in my experience this strategy of defending someone from accusations of being uncharitable, bigoted, offensive, whatever, by accusing the accusers of hypocrisy, is a pretty standard political strategy. It’s essentially a “they did it first so my guy’s justified in responding in kind” argument, and people on both sides of the political spectrum use it. IMHO, this kind of attitude just winds up coarsening public discourse in general.

I just don’t think that the assumption is that charity is only for those who “deserve it” is a Christian one. (And yes I don’t always live up that ideal myself but I do think it’s a good one.)

 

[zab]

**I just don’t think that the assumption is that charity is only for those who “deserve it” is a Christian one. ** (And yes I don’t always live up that ideal myself but I do think it’s a good one.)

Neither do I.

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s one of Simcha Fisher’s most popular, well shared posts – it’s about her experience with buying steak while on food stamps:

patheos.com/blogs/simchafisher/2015/04/17/the-day-i-bought-steak-with-my-food-stamps/

What should disgust any reader of this piece:

• that a hardworking family who is trying like mad to remain financially solvent can’t
• that this family can’t afford to live anywhere except where violence and predatory behavior are common
• that this woman received a barrage of hateful, ugly comments in response to her family’s need for assistance

Yet instead, people get twitchy over her use of the “f” word. Some become indignant over the superficial and use this indignation as a reason to ignore the actually vile problems described in this piece. When people complain about her “scatological” comments, it sure seems this is what’s happening.

Of course, the Register has the right to fire whomever it pleases. That’s not really the point. One can still be dismayed and seriously disappointed that the variety of Catholic opinion circulated is being so seriously curtailed.

For me, it’s not “instead” but rather “in addition to”. I think it’s terrible that she was on the receiving end of such commentary because she was on food stamps for a time. But I still don’t care for the crude language.

I certainly haven’t read everything she wrote, so I really can’t claim to be fully up to speed on what violations NCRegister may have perceived. I am a little more surprised about her than I am about Shea being let go. I thought her comments about the Trump/Pence logo were a bit juvenile, but not sure they alone warrant her being let go. But there could be more to the story. I’m sure people have been let go for a lot less, though. And when you’re talking about a Catholic publication, their toleration of crude language is likely to be a little less than other places.

 

[Joe_5859]

Mark Shea has a blog post up that is pretty illuminating about where he is at:

patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2016/08/getting-broken-has-been-strangely-good.html

He definitely lays it all out there sometimes. We all struggle with our brokenness in different ways. Unfortunately for him, his struggle is more public than most. But it is an opportunity to witness to others.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Surprise, surprise that the popular but horrific “canonization” of Donald Trump by numerous American Catholics has already done catastrophic damage to one of the families they are supposedly defending by electing him. :sad_yes:

They’ll get their just due if their “Saint” gets elected.

 

[Usige]

Surprise, surprise that the popular but horrific “canonization” of Donald Trump by numerous American Catholics has already done catastrophic damage to one of the families they are supposedly defending by electing him. :sad_yes:

They’ll get their just due if their “Saint” gets elected.

What in the world are you talking about?

 

[Convert_in_99]

What in the world are you talking about?

Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

There are many Catholics, even on this conservative forum, who believe Mr Trump to be far holier and more worthy of a vote than he is.

Simcha Fisher is against Mr Trump and has gotten a lashing even from conservative Catholics who are of the mindset that you are voting pro-abortion if you don’t vote for Mr Trump and choose a third party to vote for instead.

Mrs Fisher has lost her job because of such people. It’s just very sad!

 

[Usige]

Mrs Fisher has lost her job because of such people. It’s just very sad!

But that is pure speculation. No one here knows she was let go because of her political views or if it was because of her more colorful comments or something else completely unrelated. I know people who do not support either major candidate that found her more than a bit crass and some of her comments to cross the line of civility. This is the same way they feel about Mr Trump’s way of speaking. We should be careful of demonizing whole groups of people as if our speculation is indeed fact.

 

[Gordon_Sims]

In this day and age, your social media presence can be seen as a reflection of your employer. When your job is public-facing, as theirs was, it’s even more the case. I’m sure the NCR has a social media policy for its employees. Just looking at the quotes in the article linked in the original post, I’d say the NCR was well within their rights to terminate them. My employer’s social media policy is strict enough that, were I to post anything half as critical of the CEO’s party of choice as what Mark Shea posted, I could be let go, and I’m by no means in a public-facing position. I have a hard time blaming anyone other than Mark Shea and Simcha Fisher for their firing.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

But that is pure speculation. No one here knows she was let go because of her political views or if it was because of her more colorful comments or something else completely unrelated. I know people who do not support either major candidate that found her more than a bit crass and some of her comments to cross the line of civility. This is the same way they feel about Mr Trump’s way of speaking. We should be careful of demonizing whole groups of people as if our speculation is indeed fact.

I totally agree. This insinuation that Donald Trump fans somehow conspired to bring these two writers down, actually strikes me (ironically) as the kind of conspiracy theory Donald Trump himself might stir up, if someone who supported him were to be fired from a publication, that there must have been some Clintonista or Political Establishment conspiracy at work.

Now, truth-telling is of course a virtue, but it does not trump (no pun intended) the obligation to be charitable. I can agree with a person’s opinions and still disagree with how they express them. I also agree with some of what Ann Coulter has to say about issues, too, but I’m certainly not a fan of her, either.

 

[BillyHW]

Mark Shea is a buffoon and an embarrassment to the Catholic Church. He is a mentally ill narcissist man-child who never grew up and has finally descended into madness. If his friends and family loved him they would suggest he find a real job that has nothing to do with church, and then duct-tape his filthy mouth shut. A straight-jacket wouldn’t hurt either.

Karl Keating saw the light about him ages ago and dumped him from the Catholic Answers speakers bureau.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Being glib and clever is not a substitute for credible apologetics.