marriage and divorce

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You came on the forum and asked for advice and prayers. Yet, you are filling in information as it suits you which makes it tough to help. Its OK, I offer you prayers. The only other thing I can say is maybe you could suggest counseling by a counselor of HER choosing. It makes it harder to argue the counselor if she chose him/her.
I’m sorry, If I had put for the entire story up, it would take weeks to read. the funny thing is that the counselor was her choice and in the beginning all she could say was that he understood her so well.

It’s not the information that suits me, it’s just brevity
 
When do you think she gave up and what was going on at the time? Or are you not sure?
 
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daeve:
As a divorced Catholic, I find this very offensive. Maybe my husband was sinful in walking out on his family and moving in with a younger woman. The divorce guaranteed that he would assist in supporting his children.

There certainly are people who have committed grave sins, but many of us are innocent parties. Please don’t generalize.

Absolutely and well stated and honest. This happens to many wonderful Catholic married in the Church women. There is enough hurt for them and their family and children without alienating them from our Church. They were wronged by their husband who threw his marriage vows to the wayside.

Over the years, I’ve found some priests to be very kind and diplomatic and understanding. If they are going look down their nose and preach, they should find another calling. I’ve known of some kind and gentle ones and some that a work in progress and some when I wasa youngster at 6 or 10 that meant well, but were unapproachable and scary bears. Most by far were quite the opposite.
 
Absolutely and well stated and honest. This happens to many wonderful Catholic married in the Church women. There is enough hurt for them and their family and children without alienating them from our Church. They were wronged by their husband who threw his marriage vows to the wayside.

Its not just men who leave their wives. After 13 years of marriage my wife left me for another man and divorced me. But I did not let that stop my raising my children. I agree that alienation from the church is not only hurtful but uncharitable. Thank God that my priests and church family remained supportive.
 
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daeve:
As a divorced Catholic, I find this very offensive. Maybe my husband was sinful in walking out on his family and moving in with a younger woman. The divorce guaranteed that he would assist in supporting his children.

There certainly are people who have committed grave sins, but many of us are innocent parties. Please don’t generalize.

I TOTALLY agree & I probably wouldn’t have 20 years ago. I do now. I have seen my son work at a marriage for 15 yrs. & get nothing in return but abuse. I’ve learned how much damage can be done to a human being by verbal abuse, emotional abuse & lies. His wife filed for divorce on the 1st. of June & he didn’t even know. One of his friends read it in the paper & called him to warn him, as he was on his way to an important business meeting. Since the first of June, he has done everything possible to try to save the marriage. I’ve seen him in tears more than once…this 42 yr.old man, a wonderful Father. He makes enough money to allow her to be a stay-at-home Mom, but it just isn’t enough, she says. She comes from a VERY wealthy family & cannot live on $90,000 per year. The divorce was finalized this morning, He was left with 3 home mortages to pay off,
the two credit cards that she used to pay for her breast enhancements & liposuction & 5 more credit cards for I don’t know what??

He feels like a total failure & he is emotionally exhausted. (Please pray for him.) So, no I don’t believe that is always the fault of both spouses. I don’t think they sin equally & even the Church says it’s not a civil divorce that is the sin. It’s remarriage after divorce that is the sin.
 
I TOTALLY agree & I probably wouldn’t have 20 years ago. I do now. I have seen my son work at a marriage for 15 yrs. & get nothing in return but abuse. I’ve learned how much damage can be done to a human being by verbal abuse, emotional abuse & lies. His wife filed for divorce on the 1st. of June & he didn’t even know. One of his friends read it in the paper & called him to warn him, as he was on his way to an important business meeting. Since the first of June, he has done everything possible to try to save the marriage. I’ve seen him in tears more than once…this 42 yr.old man, a wonderful Father. He makes enough money to allow her to be a stay-at-home Mom, but it just isn’t enough, she says. She comes from a VERY wealthy family & cannot live on $90,000 per year. The divorce was finalized this morning, He was left with 3 home mortages to pay off,
the two credit cards that she used to pay for her breast enhancements & liposuction & 5 more credit cards for I don’t know what??

He feels like a total failure & he is emotionally exhausted. (Please pray for him.) So, no I don’t believe that is always the fault of both spouses. I don’t think they sin equally & even the Church says it’s not a civil divorce that is the sin. It’s remarriage after divorce that is the sin.
I wish your son all the luck in the world and I hope and pray that he may be granted an anullment if that is what he wants so that he may either choose to know the power of love with a woman the way should be experienced or that he may seek vocation.
 
I wish your son all the luck in the world and I hope and pray that he may be granted an anullment if that is what he wants so that he may either choose to know the power of love with a woman the way should be experienced or that he may seek vocation.
Thank you for your kind words. However, there is much more to the story…isn’t there always. My son was not married in the Church, which has haunted him for the past 14 yrs.,but has turned out to be a wonderful thing.

You see my daughter-in-law did not belong to any Church, but her family would not have a Catholic wedding. This girl was 26 yrs. old, a college graduate & “accidentally” became pregnant. And yes, I realize that my son is not innocent in this matter. The wedding had to take place right away, because of the pregnancy. When my son went to speak with our pastor, he insisted that they would need to attend 9 mos. of Marriage Preparation classes & neither her or her family would even consider waiting at all…certainly not to be wed into a faith they disapproved of, anyway. Nope, the wedding was held at one of the oldest & most beautiful Churches in the city, a Baptist Church( that they were not members of) & it about broke my heart.

Thank GOD for that old priest, that held out & refused to perform a “quickie marriage”, for it does leave him the option of marrying again.

I no I sound bitter, but I’ll get over that. Please just pray for my son & his 2 children.
 
I am sorry JRHiggins but you seems to be very quick to hear what you want to hear and become very confrontational - even toward your priest. Divorce in itself is not wrong - sometimes seperation is needed. I think you need to ask yourself are you acting in ways that your wife has felt that:
  1. Her safety is in jeopardy if she stays
  2. Her spiritual growth or the spiritual growth of her children are in jeopardy if she does not seperate
  3. That you did not have a full committment or understanding to your vows when you took them (ie - are you cheating or crossing the line)
  4. Are the grounds for anullment in your marriage because some of your/her actions have made it clear that one/both of you was not ready/willing to take the sacrament of marriage
If these things exist then no - divorce is not wrong. It is inevitable because while you may be civilly married the sacrament could be invalid. If none of these things exist then I wish you well holding your family together. Find another priest and bounce these things off of him. Right now it seems like one or both of you is hearing what you want to hear and picking out what suits you.

God Bless,
 
i’m divorced because my husband cheated and subsequently married the other girl ~ i was concerned about my standing in the church and my priest told me that according to the church, i’m still married and danny is committing adultery. and since he remarried he’s now excomunicated. as long as i don’t get married/live with anyone or have a boyfriend i’m fine. that was great news because i don’t want to be anyone’s girlriend or wife.
 
i’m divorced because my husband cheated and subsequently married the other girl ~ i was concerned about my standing in the church and my priest told me that according to the church, i’m still married and danny is committing adultery. and since he remarried he’s now excomunicated. as long as i don’t get married/live with anyone or have a boyfriend i’m fine. that was great news because i don’t want to be anyone’s girlriend or wife.
Your priest can share his opinion on this but he does have the authority to make the final decision on the valdity of the sacrament. You can always file for an anullment and have it read by the tribunal. While you may not wish to be anyone’s gf/dw you may wish someday to enter vocation and you will need that to do so.
 
Thank you for your kind words. However, there is much more to the story…isn’t there always. My son was not married in the Church, which has haunted him for the past 14 yrs.,but has turned out to be a wonderful thing.

You see my daughter-in-law did not belong to any Church, but her family would not have a Catholic wedding. This girl was 26 yrs. old, a college graduate & “accidentally” became pregnant. And yes, I realize that my son is not innocent in this matter. The wedding had to take place right away, because of the pregnancy. When my son went to speak with our pastor, he insisted that they would need to attend 9 mos. of Marriage Preparation classes & neither her or her family would even consider waiting at all…certainly not to be wed into a faith they disapproved of, anyway. Nope, the wedding was held at one of the oldest & most beautiful Churches in the city, a Baptist Church( that they were not members of) & it about broke my heart.

Thank GOD for that old priest, that held out & refused to perform a “quickie marriage”, for it does leave him the option of marrying again.

I no I sound bitter, but I’ll get over that. Please just pray for my son & his 2 children.
My lack of form anullment - which is what they call it when you have one party who is Catholic but did not marry in the Church- only took a month or two - I don’t really remember except we put in the paperwork at one marriage prep and had it back the next one. I was in the process of doing RCIA and had never really thought needed one since I had never been married in the Church. I was divorced after an abusive marriage and was relieved to find out that all I needed was my xh’s baptismal certificate which could be sent diocese to diocese upon request.
 
My lack of form anullment - which is what they call it when you have one party who is Catholic but did not marry in the Church- only took a month or two - I don’t really remember except we put in the paperwork at one marriage prep and had it back the next one. I was in the process of doing RCIA and had never really thought needed one since I had never been married in the Church. I was divorced after an abusive marriage and was relieved to find out that all I needed was my xh’s baptismal certificate which could be sent diocese to diocese upon request.
I didn’t know that one would need an annulment when the marriage itself was not considered a “marriage” to begin with. My Son was a baptized Catholic at the time of the wedding & I’m not even sure that my ex-daughter-in-law was ever baptized in any faith. You’ve made me think, though, because her family is very BIG on social correctness & a Christening & party afterwards would have appealed to them. I’d better find out all the details, However, my son has been so damaged by all of it…both the marriage & the divorce, that I don’t think there is any rush.
 
Your priest can share his opinion on this but he does have the authority to make the final decision on the valdity of the sacrament. You can always file for an anullment and have it read by the tribunal. While you may not wish to be anyone’s gf/dw you may wish someday to enter vocation and you will need that to do so.
I believe that what the poster’s priest meant - and this is correct - is that, though she is still considered married, she is not barred from communion unless she attempts another marriage without a decree of nullity. She didn’t say anything about the priest making any decision about the validity of her marriage.
 
I didn’t know that one would need an annulment when the marriage itself was not considered a “marriage” to begin with. My Son was a baptized Catholic at the time of the wedding & I’m not even sure that my ex-daughter-in-law was ever baptized in any faith. You’ve made me think, though, because her family is very BIG on social correctness & a Christening & party afterwards would have appealed to them. I’d better find out all the details, However, my son has been so damaged by all of it…both the marriage & the divorce, that I don’t think there is any rush.
You have hit the nail on the head between the lack of form anullment and a full anullment. The full anullment can take a year or more. The lack of form is a matter of paperwork to prove that it was just what the name implies - a lack of form. The main point are this:
  1. He was baptized Catholic
  2. He had a duty to get married in the Church
  3. He did not
  4. Due ot that there was no vaild marriage
 
It seems that a lot of posters aren’t understanding the OP the same way that I did (or perhaps I am misunderstanding their understanding of the OP ;)). The way I understood it is that the priest in the OP was counselling that divorce is never a sin (or at least, most of the time isn’t a sin), when the OP can see from the CCC that it can be a “grave offense.”

With all the personal examples in this thread, I think it should definitely be said that divorce is not always a sin. Also, it seems that (at least in my experience with people I’ve known) it is quite often only a sin for one of the parties involved, not both. Obviously, if you aren’t choosing it, it’s not a sin. And if you are choosing it for good reasons (“safety and security”), it’s not a sin either.

However, I think what the CCC says, and what the OP is trying to get at, is that divorce certainly can be a grave sin even apart from any considerations of remarriage. Remarriage isn’t the only thing that can make divorce sinful. As the CCC says, “Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society.”

From the personal examples shared here, it doesn’t seem that anyone on this thread is guilty of sin in this regard.
 
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I attended Mass 10/04 and the three readings where all centered on marriage, they where wonderful to hear. Our Pastor then got up and gave a Homily starting off by denying a request from the Bishops in our state concerning same sex marriage. He further went on to talk about inclusion, which was wonderful, and ended in saying that “Divorce, in and of itself is not a sin”

I was floored because this is the priest that is advising my wife and the rest of the parish which is rather large. I wrote him a quick email to verify what I thought I heard and I heard him correctly. I looked up the catechism of the RC church and quoted it to him as follows:

• "Divorce, for reasons other than safety and security however, is considered a grave offense because it “claims to break the [marriage] contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death” (#2384).

• “Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.” (#2385).

[SIGN]He still insisted that the act of divorce was not sin.[/SIGN]
I have two questions

Am I wrong in reading that “grave offense” is mortal sin?

What recourse does a parishioner have in correcting a priest projecting his opinion as the church doctrine?

Thanks for your time and God Bless

James
That is not what the RCC teaches or has ever taught. I would discuss this with another Priest If I was you.
 
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It seems that a lot of posters aren’t understanding the OP the same way that I did (or perhaps I am misunderstanding their understanding of the OP ;)). The way I understood it is that the priest in the OP was counselling that divorce is never a sin (or at least, most of the time isn’t a sin), when the OP can see from the CCC that it can be a “grave offense.”

With all the personal examples in this thread, I think it[SIGN] should definitely be said that divorce is not always a sin. [/SIGN]Also, it seems that (at least in my experience with people I’ve known) it is quite often only a sin for one of the parties involved, not both. Obviously, if you aren’t choosing it, it’s not a sin. And if you are choosing it for good reasons (“safety and security”), it’s not a sin either.

However, I think what the CCC says, and what the OP is trying to get at, is that divorce certainly can be a grave sin even apart from any considerations of remarriage. Remarriage isn’t the only thing that can make divorce sinful. As the CCC says, “Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society.”

From the personal examples shared here, it doesn’t seem that anyone on this thread is guilty of sin in this regard.
According to our faith Joe it is a sin. If the marriage is considered valid no one can separate those two People. They are united as one as God and his Church.

They may live separate and be granted a legal separation by the CHurch but if the marriage is valid neither can remarry until the other dies or it is adultery.
 
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**According to our faith Joe it is a sin. ** If the marriage is considered valid no one can separate those two People. They are united as one as God and his Church.
**
They may live separate and be granted a legal separation by the CHurch **but if the marriage is valid neither can remarry until the other dies or it is adultery.
Can you please demonstrate the fact that “according to our faith it is a sin”. The way you present it appears to be in 100% of the cases, I can agree with you that in large number of cases it could be sinful but if you look at post #2 you can see where I disagree with you. I am also assuming that you are talking about civil divorce in a valid marriage.

Can you also please show how the Church grants a legal separation? I am not aware of such a specific in the Canon of Law, but I might be just ignorant of the details.
 
Can you please demonstrate the fact that “according to our faith it is a sin”. The way you present it appears to be in 100% of the cases, I can agree with you that in large number of cases it could be sinful but if you look at post #2 you can see where I disagree with you. I am also assuming that you are talking about civil divorce in a valid marriage.

Can you also please show how the Church grants a legal separation? I am not aware of such a specific in the Canon of Law, but I might be just ignorant of the details.
It is Cristiano. Let me explain here is a quick example. Lets say I am married in Church and my husband and our marriage is valid. Thats it, no man can separate us. We are united as one flesh. Read mark 10:9-12.

Now if the Church says we do not have grounds for annulment and our marriage is valid I have a choice. I honor those vows or I don’t. Now lets say my husband gets a legal divorce from the law. I cannot stop him. But he has committed adultery and so did his girlfriend etc. But if I honor those vows and do not commit adultery and wait until my husband dies and live alone I did not commit adultery. In the eyes of the law we are no longer husband and wife, but in the church we are.

The church can not force my husband to keep his promise to God or me. the same as I can’t. But the Church can help me to accept that promise by living alone, and through prayer and the sacrament of communion get through this. Do you understand what I am saying?
 
Now the other side of the coin, if I can prove to the Church it was never a marriage in the first place no true marriage existed it can be annulled. No marriage ever existed. So if you were never truly married you cannot be divorced. You have to have a marriage to have a divorce. You have to prove you never had a marriage to be annulled. Do you understand?

A wedding and saying I do does not mean a marriage. A wedding is not a marriage.
 
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