Marriage in 2009? What is going on!

[Galnextdoor]

so, in a nutshell, you are saying if he’s not financially responsible, this is a reason to divorce? Stuff like this is why people have to take a step back, really get to know who you are committing to before making that commitment. If they immature they are immature, bottom line and you know full well what you are getting into.

I do agree with your points along the behavior not being something anybody should approve of, yet still, things like this can be worked out within the marriage itself.

I don’t know if you have read my second post or not. I apologize for making this too personal. It struck a nerve, obviously. Please forgive my less than charitable reply.

 

[JohnPaul64]

I’ve been really studying the teachings of the church on married life. It has really renewed my hope in marriage again. I would want to find someone who is as committed to Jesus as I am. Someone who has a prayer life. Someone who says the rosary every day. Someone who’d give their heart to me as I would to them til death no matter what. I was married 10 years ago. I think it would be awesome to be married to someone who’d pray with me, grow together and explore the church with me…wishful thinking…

 

[prodigalson12]

I don’t know if you have read my second post or not. I apologize for making this too personal. It struck a nerve, obviously. Please forgive my less than charitable reply.

I understand you are venting from your own personal experience and absolutely, you have a right to be bitter about it, I didn’t take any real offense in the first place with your post because I knew where you were coming from… You are in a lot of pain and I’ll pray for you on it. I have my own story I prefer not detail in public with a relationship and we were not married, yes, it was living in sin and not in God’s grace and it was pure loneliness that drew me into it initially. I was the opposite of the guy you mentioned, and in fact, she was the one that clearly was incapable of love as it’s intended. In her case there was several psycological issues that caused much of it so I’m able to move on, not blaming her as much as the fact, she was sick.

In both cases regardless, we were unequally yolked for if we were not, neither of us would had that same experience.

 

[opera]

Prodigalson12: I’m not surprised that you’re running into a lot of divorced people. (If there’s a lot of divorced women, presumably there’s a lot of divorced men too.) I read in a Catholic magazine last fall, that the divorce rate among Catholics is at an all time high. What a lot of people are unaware of is the fact (also stated in this same magazine) that the number of Catholics marrying for the first time is at an all time low. Contrast those stats with the fact that the Church teaches that most people are called to marriage.

Everyone’s aware of the shortage of priest/religious vocations. However, as a church, a lot of us are not aware of the vocations shortage to marriage. It’s a real problem.

 

[FrenchGwen]

I have to point out on the flip side, if you do marry young, you can also grow in your ways towards similar goals and traits entirely because you are together. However, I have taken note reading something about how the best long term marriages, each side was allowed to be themselves and have their own individual time to pursue their dreams and aspirations. I think a big part of what that’s saying, letting your partner do what they desire, supporting them in what ever they do avoids thoughts of thinking that you are being held back, being in that marriage in the first place.

I fully agree with this. We’ve had to work on this during our dating time and engagement, because I had had time to figure which sort of family life I wanted (ie number of children,…), whereas my DH hadn’t, and there was a risk he would simply take over my wishes. So he took time to form his own opinion on this, independently from mine. Which was somewhat difficult, since I had to accept, too, that he could form different an opinion…

Similarly, now we’re married (both 22), we have decided that it was very crucial to our development to take time to develop ourselves further, which is one of the reasons why we are TTA. There are things especially my DH had never the occasion to do when a child or a youth, and that he craves to do. We have realized that he might be quite frustrated if he didn’t get to do these, and that for our marriage it would be best to allow some time for it.

 

[richardwy]

A couple things . . .

Does anyone doubt the truthfulness of the magazine poll: divorce up & marriage down in the Church? I’m not dialed into these things. So, it is so?

 

[whatevergirl]

*I would like to add something here, just from my own experience in what I consider to be a ‘good’ marriage.

I think that until one gets married…you really don’t know what to expect. You can go through pre-cana, counseling, read every good book about marriage on the market, be mature, have your degrees and finances in order…but until you actually live as a married person, you have no idea what it takes to be a loving spouse, day in and day out…and how fabulous it can be, and at the same time…on different days, challenging. But, if you allow them to, the challenges can stretch you, and help you to grow. (challenges in this case do not equate to someone abusing you, or cheating on you, that’s an entirely separate thing altogether)

Marriage is all that I thought it could be and more…and nothing what I thought it would be, all at the same time. Marriage taught me how to grow up, how to put someone before myself, how to become a loving and nurturing wife…but not in one day. Marriage is not so much about “permitting” someone to have their own dreams, but wanting* that for them…wanting them to be happy…and that person wanting the same for you. Unhealthy marriages are those in which either spouse is shackled in some way…but healthy ones cause each spouse to thrive…to be better BECAUSE of the union between the two.

I think that so many marriages crumble, because the two going into it, had a very off-kilter, idealistic view of marriage. Marriage is not an endless romantic party…it has its ups and downs like anything else in life…but, if you are both commited to making it work…if you both love one another, and are always looking out for each other’s interests…your marriage will be a forever one!

 

[whatevergirl]

*I’m in an especially sharing mood this morning…

I will add that many people break up too, because they never dealt with the minor issues that erupted in their marriages.

Example:

My dh and I did not live together before marriage, so we never grocery shopped together…never paid bills together…etc etc…obviously didn’t have kids until after we were married, so of course, when dating, everything was rosy…very little bickering, etc…

Get married, and my husband’s ultra organized self meets my disorganized, creative side…that doesn’t like structure. I fell in love with my dh’s structured side, but it bit me when we started living together, after we were married. He likes a super clean house, he likes bills paid before they are due, he likes to eat at home more than eat out, he likes to clip coupons…

Me–I love to eat out, I hate clipping coupons, I tell the kids yes to whatever they want, he tells them no…I have a messy car, his is perfectly clean…and so on and so on…

These things while seemingly minor, if not discussed…and the person left to fester and smolder resentment…often can lead to explosive arguments. We have had such arguments. My husband will never make me a domestic diva, BUT…Because he likes things a certain way, I do try to accomodate, more than I used to. My dh also doesn’t get upset when he steps into my car and sees water bottles and gum wrappers strewn all over the floor. He has developed a sense of humor over it…saying, we shouldn’t sweat the small stuff.

So…we meet in the middle, and I say all of this…because these are the very things that drive people apart…the small things, that develop into mountains. Just my two cents. *

 

[Sarabande]

*I would like to add something here, just from my own experience in what I consider to be a ‘good’ marriage.

I think that until one gets married…you really don’t know what to expect. You can go through pre-cana, counseling, read every good book about marriage on the market, be mature, have your degrees and finances in order…but until you actually live as a married person, you have no idea what it takes to be a loving spouse, day in and day out…and how fabulous it can be, and at the same time…on different days, challenging. But, if you allow them to, the challenges can stretch you, and help you to grow. (challenges in this case do not equate to someone abusing you, or cheating on you, that’s an entirely separate thing altogether)

Marriage is all that I thought it could be and more…and nothing what I thought it would be, all at the same time. Marriage taught me how to grow up, how to put someone before myself, how to become a loving and nurturing wife…but not in one day. Marriage is not so much about “permitting” someone to have their own dreams, but wanting* that for them…wanting them to be happy…and that person wanting the same for you. Unhealthy marriages are those in which either spouse is shackled in some way…but healthy ones cause each spouse to thrive…to be better BECAUSE of the union between the two.

I think that so many marriages crumble, because the two going into it, had a very off-kilter, idealistic view of marriage. Marriage is not an endless romantic party…it has its ups and downs like anything else in life…but, if you are both commited to making it work…if you both love one another, and are always looking out for each other’s interests…your marriage will be a forever one!

Whatevergirl - This was beautifully said!

 

[Sarabande]

*I’m in an especially sharing mood this morning…

I will add that many people break up too, because they never dealt with the minor issues that erupted in their marriages.

Example:

My dh and I did not live together before marriage, so we never grocery shopped together…never paid bills together…etc etc…obviously didn’t have kids until after we were married, so of course, when dating, everything was rosy…very little bickering, etc…

Get married, and my husband’s ultra organized self meets my disorganized, creative side…that doesn’t like structure. I fell in love with my dh’s structured side, but it bit me when we started living together, after we were married. He likes a super clean house, he likes bills paid before they are due, he likes to eat at home more than eat out, he likes to clip coupons…

Me–I love to eat out, I hate clipping coupons, I tell the kids yes to whatever they want, he tells them no…I have a messy car, his is perfectly clean…and so on and so on…

These things while seemingly minor, if not discussed…and the person left to fester and smolder resentment…often can lead to explosive arguments. We have had such arguments. My husband will never make me a domestic diva, BUT…Because he likes things a certain way, I do try to accomodate, more than I used to. My dh also doesn’t get upset when he steps into my car and sees water bottles and gum wrappers strewn all over the floor. He has developed a sense of humor over it…saying, we shouldn’t sweat the small stuff.

So…we meet in the middle, and I say all of this…because these are the very things that drive people apart…the small things, that develop into mountains. Just my two cents. *

These are very good points. Those minor things were details that my husband and I talked about a lot before marriage. I remember my girlfriends telling me how incredible pre-Cana was for them and it made them think about things they never discussed. For us it was the opposite because they were issues that we already worked out on our own together and didn’t really need it. But just from our group of friends, we realized that a lot of couples don’t do that, especially without the help from Pre-Cana or other pre-marriage classes.

And you are right from your previous post… no one really knows what marriage is like until they get married. I think the overly-idealized views of marriage does hurt couples who think this way.

I actually was just talking about this with my girlfriend who is dating a person now. The issue regarding co-habitating prior to marriage came up. She has different views on this that I do. I don’t believe in it for moral and practical reasons. She doesn’t believe in it - not for moral reasons as she is more liberal in her thinking than I am, but she brought up an interesting point which I have also always believed. Her thoughts were, when an unmarried couple co-habitates, they go into it with a belief that there is always a way out if things don’t work out well. They think that it’s a testing ground for whether or not they are fit to be married. But she believes many of these same couples don’t shake that belief that they can just get out of the relationship once they are married. There was no transition from single life to married life. Their living situation was the same before and after marriage, so the subconcious mind allows them to not think of their marriage as an actual, true commitment, but still playing house and a testing ground.

 

[Sarabande]

I know that this is not scientific, but my own family’s marriage successes/failures pretty much follow the statistics. Out of 6 children on my father’s side only one child did not have sex before marriage or lived together before marriage - my father and mother. They are still married for almost 40 years. 1 other child co-habitated with her husband prior to marriage and are still happily married for over 20 years. Both sets are very much into their faith. The 4 others have all been married at least twice. One is on his third marriage. Those four pretty much were cohabitators prior to marriage.

On my mother’s side, however, out of 9 children who grew up to be adults, there were 8 marriages. Out of those 8 marriages, one divorce. That one divorce was the only child who cohabitated prior to marriage and he was the youngest. The other 7 did not and they are all still happily married to the same people.

And I want to say that both grandparents raised their children very well and in the Church. Difference was my father’s side those kids were victims of the 60s and 70s. My father didn’t fall prey to it, but his brothers and sister did no matter how much my grandparents tried their best to keep them away from it and control the issue. It broke my grandparents’ hearts and she was constantly going to her priest for help and advice. My parents were there for them as well, especially when the sister began to cohabitate, which totally broke my grandfather’s heart. All is water under the bridge, but I remember the ramifications of all my uncles and aunts actions in the 80s when I was a little girl and the family strife was still among everyone.

My mother’s side were raised in the Philippines and she has always told me that the way she and her siblings were raised, it was like they were raised a generation behind my father’s. So, that is why she really connected with my father’s mother. (And that’s one of the things that so attracted my dad to my mother - not only was she the most exotic and physically beautiful person that white boy had ever set eyes on, she was also one of the most caring, independent, spiritually beautiful and the only woman he knew at the time that wasn’t hopping into bed with every guy she met. She was “old-fashioned”. From what he describes the 70s, it was pretty bad.) The free love stuff didn’t really get to them over in the Philippines although they really loved American culture. But that youngest sibling of hers was more influenced once he came to the United States as well.

 

[apromisemade]

I honestly believe the divorce rate is so high because people don’t do their homework. Often times the problems they end up having during marriage were visible, or at least there were red flags for, whilst they were dating, they just thought for some reason getting married would fix their problems rather than discuss and resolve them before hand or address them to the level of how they would play into a marriage.

 

[chevalier]

Are you ladies trying to keep up or something? I agree with Whatevergirl. On the point of mess too.

 

[whatevergirl]

Are you ladies trying to keep up or something? I agree with Whatevergirl. On the point of mess too.

I’ve tried to recover, but it’s hopeless. I am wee bit better. lol

Hi, I’m Sharon…and I’m a slob. Hi Sharon! There should be a club or something I can join…*

 

[whatevergirl]

I honestly believe the divorce rate is so high because people don’t do their homework. Often times the problems they end up having during marriage were visible, or at least there were red flags for, whilst they were dating, they just thought for some reason getting married would fix their problems rather than discuss and resolve them before hand or address them to the level of how they would play into a marriage.

*I agree with this, too. I guess when you step back and do a study on this, there are a lot of reasons for divorce these days.

Weren’t people struggling in their marriages back in say the early 1900’s, when divorce was unheard of, or did everyone just have blissful marriages? :shrug: What kept our ancestors together? *

 

[Sillara]

Weren’t people struggling in their marriages back in say the early 1900’s, when divorce was unheard of, or did everyone just have blissful marriages? :shrug: What kept our ancestors together? *

They took an oath, and that actually meant something to them. To give one’s word was a big deal. They stayed married because they promised that they would.

 

[apromisemade]

Weren’t people struggling in their marriages back in say the early 1900’s, when divorce was unheard of, or did everyone just have blissful marriages? :shrug: What kept our ancestors together?

I think it would be fair to point out the Social Revolution didn’t happen till the mid 1900s. Asking why there was virtually no divorce in, say, the 1920s would also beg the question of whether or not domestic violence or child abuse was so adamatly frowned upon, this was when it was still considered acceptable by many to give a five year old wine-soaked bread for breakfeast.

 

[whatevergirl]

They took an oath, and that actually meant something to them. To give one’s word was a big deal. They stayed married because they promised that they would.

*But, why aren’t we keeping our oaths these days? Over the past say 40 years–what’s changed so much, that promises and vows mean nothing, or not what they once did?

I will say that some of my aunts, from stories I have heard, were cheated on repeatedly by my uncles, and/or hit a few times…they had grounds to leave. I would never advocate for someone to stay in dangerous situations, but even those women stayed. There didn’t seem to be this notion of…waaaaa, things aren’t going my way, I’m outta here! I just wonder why they seemed more mature or something, than modern day couples? (on average, I mean) *

 

[Sillara]

*But, why aren’t we keeping our oaths these days? Over the past say 40 years–what’s changed so much, that promises and vows mean nothing, or not what they once did?
*

Yes, I think you hit it there. Giving one’s word does not mean what it once did. People consider oaths and vows something to be wiggled out of, not something to be kept at any cost. People have lost all sense of shame. In the past, being known as a man whose word was worthless was a shame that followed one throughout life. Now, no one seems to care at all.

I will say that some of my aunts, from stories I have heard, were cheated on repeatedly by my uncles, and/or hit a few times…they had grounds to leave. I would never advocate for someone to stay in dangerous situations, but even those women stayed. There didn’t seem to be this notion of…waaaaa, things aren’t going my way, I’m outta here! I just wonder why they seemed more mature or something, than modern day couples? (on average, I mean) *

Ideally, they stayed because even if their husbands were not good husbands, they understood that that did not relieve the wives of their marital responsibilities. Also, there was societal pressure to stay, both on the women and on the men. Women did not feel free to leave, even if there was infidelity, but men did not feel free to leave for younger women when the men reached middle age. Divorce was a stigma, as was illegitimacy.

And, yes, I would say that in the past couples were more mature–because they were expected to be. There was no sense of prolonged childhood, of the modern idea of the “teenager.”

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, I think you hit it there. Giving one’s word does not mean what it once did. People consider oaths and vows something to be wiggled out of, not something to be kept at any cost. People have lost all sense of shame. In the past, being known as a man whose word was worthless was a shame that followed one throughout life. Now, no one seems to care at all.

Ideally, they stayed because even if their husbands were not good husbands, they understood that that did not relieve the wives of their marital responsibilities. Also, there was societal pressure to stay, both on the women and on the men. Women did not feel free to leave, even if there was infidelity, but men did not feel free to leave for younger women when the men reached middle age. Divorce was a stigma, as was illegitimacy.

And, yes, I would say that in the past couples were more mature–because they were expected to be. There was no sense of prolonged childhood, of the modern idea of the “teenager.”

*Yes, we are in agreement here. I don’t advocate staying with someone who beats you or is a serial cheater though…but, they didn’t run away at the first signs of struggle.

Who started this notion of remaining a man-child, woman-child? If I were single…I would find that so unattractive…imnmaturity was always a turn off to me. NOT marriage *material.