Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

[Serap]

It does tell me to stick it out - though I’m getting less hopeful with each passing day. I do feel guilty for everything I’ve ever done to him. I know that I’ve probably driven him crazy just like he’s driving me crazy now. However, I don’t see the need to live in the past. I get that I was pretty crazy at times but I don’t think that it was an everyday thing or even an every month thing. I’m also certain that he never really brought this to my attention. He never pointed out what needed to change or suggested professional counseling.

I’m not sure what the next step is. Maybe I will insist on talking to our priest.

YES…do that

 

[bernadettefaith]

Ok so we got into a discussion tonight. I asked that he drop the past issue with my anger at his parents because he lied about them so we are both at fault. He agreed.

He’s very angry and panicked because he says that I would get angry with him when we talked about any hot button topics and he disagreed. I see that now and realize I was totally wrong. I didn’t know that it affected him to that extent because he hid it from me. He says that I should have known I was unreasonable but I didn’t realize without being told. He has also been angry plenty of times. Anyway, I do regret all of this but I don’t see how I was supposed to know that it scared him if he hid his emotions.

Oh and he said that people will think he’s crazy that this affects him so much. He’s upset because I’m not the woman he married - I’m better because I’ve fixed whatever issues we did have. So he feels like he’s crazy for complaining that his wife has changed for the better. I guess that the past just still affects him psychologically. I don’t know, but I hope that counseling helps him.

 

[Serap]

Ok so we got into a discussion tonight. I asked that he drop the past issue with my anger at his parents because he lied about them so we are both at fault. He agreed.

He’s very angry and panicked because he says that I would get angry with him when we talked about any hot button topics and he disagreed. I see that now and realize I was totally wrong. I didn’t know that it affected him to that extent because he hid it from me. He says that I should have known I was unreasonable but I didn’t realize without being told. He has also been angry plenty of times. Anyway, I do regret all of this but I don’t see how I was supposed to know that it scared him if he hid his emotions.

Oh and he said that people will think he’s crazy that this affects him so much. He’s upset because I’m not the woman he married - I’m better because I’ve fixed whatever issues we did have. So he feels like he’s crazy for complaining that his wife has changed for the better. I guess that the past just still affects him psychologically. I don’t know, but I hope that counseling helps him.

Well that is a good sign if he feels crazy being upset about his wife changing for the better. He may snap out of it over time.

 

[MJJean]

I believe that the children are a very good reason to work on the marriage even if he thinks that he should have never married me. I do think that there are good reasons to separate, but IMO that only includes adultery or abuse. I definitely don’t think it’s best to stay in an abusive marriage for the kids, but for just an unhappy marriage I don’t know.

I have a few friends that came from “cold” marriages where their parents stuck it out for them and were civil, polite, sometimes friendly. Sure, they aren’t as damaged as children of abusive relationships and they aren’t as damaged as children from nasty divorces where the parents dragged each other through the mud and couldn’t get along, but they are damaged.

The biggest complaint I have heard from those friends spouses, SO’s, and/or kids is that they aren’t affectionate. They tend to not physically demonstrate affection through touch, hugs, kisses, etc. They also tend to not express affection verbally very often. The spouses/SO’s/kids think that those folks are cold, unfeeling, very reserved. The folks themselves think they are just fine and that it’s all good because that’s “just how my family is”.

Something to think about. Hopefully, you two will be able to work through this rough patch and be able to be warm and close again. If not, and you decide to stick it out as friends for the kids sake, then be very conscious of how you and your husband demonstrate affection to the kids and try to hug and be warm in front of the kids as much as possible.

 

[Serap]

I have a few friends that came from “cold” marriages where their parents stuck it out for them and were civil, polite, sometimes friendly. Sure, they aren’t as damaged as children of abusive relationships and they aren’t as damaged as children from nasty divorces where the parents dragged each other through the mud and couldn’t get along, but they are damaged.

The biggest complaint I have heard from those friends spouses, SO’s, and/or kids is that they aren’t affectionate. They tend to not physically demonstrate affection through touch, hugs, kisses, etc. They also tend to not express affection verbally very often. The spouses/SO’s/kids think that those folks are cold, unfeeling, very reserved. The folks themselves think they are just fine and that it’s all good because that’s “just how my family is”.

Something to think about. Hopefully, you two will be able to work through this rough patch and be able to be warm and close again. If not, and you decide to stick it out as friends for the kids sake, then be very conscious of how you and your husband demonstrate affection to the kids and try to hug and be warm in front of the kids as much as possible.

FWIW…my husband is from a cold family and his parents finally split when he was 40 years old. He respects his mom very much for sticking it out for him and his sister. He loves his parents very much.

However, my husband is not affectionate and is awkward when it comes to expressing his love for me. Having said that, he tells our kids everyday how much he loves them b/c he learned that from his mom to show love for his kids. As for me, I’m ok with it b/c I know that my husband doesn’t do “love talk”. He shows me by being loyal and there for us as a father and husband. He doesn’t go out with the boys or come home drunk. He’s a “good boy”. He was raised well. I guess some could say that we have a somewhat “cold” marriage bc of the lack of affection in front of the kids. There’s a lot of love in our family and my kids must be able to feel it even without us holding hands and kissing.

Everyone is damaged in some way. It’s inevitable. I honestly agree with you BernadetteFaith that staying in a cold marriage is best for kids over being divorced. Divorce hurts them a lot more and IMO is way more damaging in the short run and long run.

So I guess it depends on a lot of things. Some people are very resilient…some are not.

To share: I come from a family of abuse and strife. My parents split up when I was 17 after years of abusing eachother and their children physically and emotionally. I was majorly messed up for many years until about the age of 30. I had no coping skills for everyday stresses and often had panic attacks over trivial things. Even though I am very resilient, I was damaged severely. I’m ok now, but I can honestly speak from the perspective of an abusive hostile household that I would have been better off if my parents had of split up when I was young.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I have a few friends that came from “cold” marriages where their parents stuck it out for them and were civil, polite, sometimes friendly. Sure, they aren’t as damaged as children of abusive relationships and they aren’t as damaged as children from nasty divorces where the parents dragged each other through the mud and couldn’t get along, but they are damaged.

The biggest complaint I have heard from those friends spouses, SO’s, and/or kids is that they aren’t affectionate. They tend to not physically demonstrate affection through touch, hugs, kisses, etc. They also tend to not express affection verbally very often. The spouses/SO’s/kids think that those folks are cold, unfeeling, very reserved. The folks themselves think they are just fine and that it’s all good because that’s “just how my family is”.

Something to think about. Hopefully, you two will be able to work through this rough patch and be able to be warm and close again. If not, and you decide to stick it out as friends for the kids sake, then be very conscious of how you and your husband demonstrate affection to the kids and try to hug and be warm in front of the kids as much as possible.

My hope would be that we would keep working on the marriage while we stick it out. It’s never too late for a miracle as long as he’s willing to stay and try.

We do still hug and kiss but usually only to say goodbye. Nowhere near what we used to be. He used to be all over me all the time

I don’t think my parents stuck around only for the kids but I grew up rarely seeing them hug or kiss. Maybe when he left for work in the morning but that was it. They’ve been married 30 years.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I am feeling guilty about the way I acted toward him. Last night, he said that it really bothered him when I got angry about hot button issues (abortion, religion, etc). He felt afraid to disagree with me. I get that I was really pushy but I couldn’t force him to agree with me. He didn’t tell me that it bothered him to this extent. Yes, I should have known and shouldn’t have made such a big issue over the little things. I realize that now but it was hard to see what I was doing wrong in the moment. I have matured over the years and I do not want to lose my marriage over this I hope that in the future we can agree to disagree. Our views on these issues were often close but I would argue my exact views. A lot of this happened in the past with the most recent being at least 2 years ago, some as long as 10 years ago. I have a few topics that I’m pretty passionate about and he’s not really the type to have a strong opinion one way or the other on most topics. He has a lot of regret for not standing up to me. Instead he would bottle the anger in and pretend to be ok. I believe that if he would have told me how much it bothered him that I would have backed down. I’m sure that I’m mostly to blame but I didn’t know he was unhappy if he didn’t show it. There was immaturity on both ends and I do believe we’ve grown since these issues.

I really don’t know what else can be done. I hope that he accepts my apology and realizes that I have grown past these old issues. I am glad that he sees change and hope that somehow we can start over.

 

[MJJean]

FWIW…my husband is from a cold family and his parents finally split when he was 40 years old. He respects his mom very much for sticking it out for him and his sister. He loves his parents very much.

However, my husband is not affectionate and is awkward when it comes to expressing his love for me. Having said that, he tells our kids everyday how much he loves them b/c he learned that from his mom to show love for his kids. As for me, I’m ok with it b/c I know that my husband doesn’t do “love talk”. He shows me by being loyal and there for us as a father and husband. He doesn’t go out with the boys or come home drunk. He’s a “good boy”. He was raised well. I guess some could say that we have a somewhat “cold” marriage bc of the lack of affection in front of the kids. There’s a lot of love in our family and my kids must be able to feel it even without us holding hands and kissing.

Everyone is damaged in some way. It’s inevitable. I honestly agree with you BernadetteFaith that staying in a cold marriage is best for kids over being divorced. Divorce hurts them a lot more and IMO is way more damaging in the short run and long run.

So I guess it depends on a lot of things. Some people are very resilient…some are not.

To share: I come from a family of abuse and strife. My parents split up when I was 17 after years of abusing eachother and their children physically and emotionally. I was majorly messed up for many years until about the age of 30. I had no coping skills for everyday stresses and often had panic attacks over trivial things. Even though I am very resilient, I was damaged severely. I’m ok now, but I can honestly speak from the perspective of an abusive hostile household that I would have been better off if my parents had of split up when I was young.

The spouses/SO’s of friends from “cold” marriages in my circle haven’t been as understanding. We have a couple divorces and a couple broken engagements over the expression of affection issue.

Myself, I have learned to live with it, too, by understanding and not taking it personally. My husbands parents aren’t exactly in a “cold” marriage. They had him very late in life and come from a generation that simply wasn’t often emotionally expressive. So, he learned to be affectionate to parents and to kids, but not to a spouse. He’s been working on it over the years and is much better now. And I also have learned to recognize his way of showing love. Like your DH, mine doesn’t go out often, has been dependable and loyal, and I’d much rather have that than a very openly loving philanderer or a man who is always out and about.

I also agree that no one comes out of childhood unscathed. We’re all damaged in some way. As parents we can only try to minimize damage.

Your childhood is why I divorced. It was absolutely the right decision. I’m sure I have screwed up as a parent in other ways, but I think those mistakes are much less damaging than staying with my ex would have been.

My hope would be that we would keep working on the marriage while we stick it out. It’s never too late for a miracle as long as he’s willing to stay and try.

We do still hug and kiss but usually only to say goodbye. Nowhere near what we used to be. He used to be all over me all the time

I don’t think my parents stuck around only for the kids but I grew up rarely seeing them hug or kiss. Maybe when he left for work in the morning but that was it. They’ve been married 30 years.

Some parents aren’t comfortable showing a lot of affection in front of their kids. Little things do matter, though. My parents were decently affectionate, but what told us they loved each other was listening to them talk in their room at night. We couldn’t quite make out what they were saying, but we knew they were talking to each other. And we saw them laugh together a lot.

Hugging and kissing goodbye is actually very sweet. It does set an example of showing affection. My kids see me hug and kiss my husband every day when he leaves and when he comes home. He’s a truck driver, I worry about accidents, my heart malfunction and blood pressure make a stroke or heart attack very real possibilities, and I always make sure he knows I love him before he leaves just in case it’s the last time we’re together on earth. After the hug and kiss I say “Be careful!” and he replies “Always.” I’e noticed the kids do and say the same thing now. Not just to my husband when he leaves, but also to me later on when I drop them off at school.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Hugging and kissing goodbye is actually very sweet. It does set an example of showing affection. My kids see me hug and kiss my husband every day when he leaves and when he comes home. He’s a truck driver, I worry about accidents, my heart malfunction and blood pressure make a stroke or heart attack very real possibilities, and I always make sure he knows I love him before he leaves just in case it’s the last time we’re together on earth. After the hug and kiss I say “Be careful!” and he replies “Always.” I’e noticed the kids do and say the same thing now. Not just to my husband when he leaves, but also to me later on when I drop them off at school.

Well dh and I still do hug/kiss goodbye as long as I’m awake when he leaves. I too worry that he may not come home from work. I don’t say “I love you” anymore because I’ve been told it isn’t a good idea to remind him that he doesn’t feel the same way. He’d say “I love you too” but I suppose he didn’t mean it, not in a romantic way. He says that he loves me as a friend right now I don’t know if that’s the right decision or not really.

 

[Serap]

The spouses/SO’s of friends from “cold” marriages in my circle haven’t been as understanding. We have a couple divorces and a couple broken engagements over the expression of affection issue.

Myself, I have learned to live with it, too, by understanding and not taking it personally. My husbands parents aren’t exactly in a “cold” marriage. They had him very late in life and come from a generation that simply wasn’t often emotionally expressive. So, he learned to be affectionate to parents and to kids, but not to a spouse. He’s been working on it over the years and is much better now. And I also have learned to recognize his way of showing love. Like your DH, mine doesn’t go out often, has been dependable and loyal, and I’d much rather have that than a very openly loving philanderer or a man who is always out and about.

I also agree that no one comes out of childhood unscathed. We’re all damaged in some way. As parents we can only try to minimize damage.

Your childhood is why I divorced. It was absolutely the right decision. I’m sure I have screwed up as a parent in other ways, but I think those mistakes are much less damaging than staying with my ex would have been.

Some parents aren’t comfortable showing a lot of affection in front of their kids. Little things do matter, though. My parents were decently affectionate, but what told us they loved each other was listening to them talk in their room at night. We couldn’t quite make out what they were saying, but we knew they were talking to each other. And we saw them laugh together a lot.

Hugging and kissing goodbye is actually very sweet. It does set an example of showing affection. My kids see me hug and kiss my husband every day when he leaves and when he comes home. He’s a truck driver, I worry about accidents, my heart malfunction and blood pressure make a stroke or heart attack very real possibilities, and I always make sure he knows I love him before he leaves just in case it’s the last time we’re together on earth. After the hug and kiss I say “Be careful!” and he replies “Always.” I’e noticed the kids do and say the same thing now. Not just to my husband when he leaves, but also to me later on when I drop them off at school.

I’m sorry to hear that your first marriage was abusive You have done your best as a mom!

What you wrote gave me the realization that when my husband make love on the weekends, we tell the kids that mommy and daddy want some alone time while they watch TV. They must know that mommy and daddy are hugging eachother and showing love to eachother bc when they hear me go to the washroom, they come in and jump on the bed and say, “we want hugs too!”

 

[Serap]

Well dh and I still do hug/kiss goodbye as long as I’m awake when he leaves. I too worry that he may not come home from work. I don’t say “I love you” anymore because I’ve been told it isn’t a good idea to remind him that he doesn’t feel the same way. He’d say “I love you too” but I suppose he didn’t mean it, not in a romantic way. He says that he loves me as a friend right now I don’t know if that’s the right decision or not really.

I personally would continue to tell him that you love him if that’s how you feel. There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling your husband that you love him before he leaves the house. I would just stop expecting to hear it back and tell him that he doesn’t have to say it back if he doesn’t feel comfortable. doing so.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I’m sorry to hear that your first marriage was abusive You have done your best as a mom!

What you wrote gave me the realization that when my husband make love on the weekends, we tell the kids that mommy and daddy want some alone time while they watch TV. They must know that mommy and daddy are hugging eachother and showing love to eachother bc when they hear me go to the washroom, they come in and jump on the bed and say, “we want hugs too!”

My dd always said the same thing! Any time Dh and I showed affection at all she would insist on getting hugs too I swear, he was so affectionate and loving all the time that I had no clue he was unhappy. Maybe I just was too distracted by the kids that I didn’t pay attention…who knows.

 

[Serap]

My dd always said the same thing! Any time Dh and I showed affection at all she would insist on getting hugs too I swear, he was so affectionate and loving all the time that I had no clue he was unhappy. Maybe I just was too distracted by the kids that I didn’t pay attention…who knows.

He was unhappy, but still hopeful that things would change. Hope can make us act lovingly even when we don’t feel it.

This man needs to have hope again. Hope comes from getting out of a depression.

He should have communicated with you and in the future, I think he will learn to do so.

 

[MJJean]

Well dh and I still do hug/kiss goodbye as long as I’m awake when he leaves. I too worry that he may not come home from work. I don’t say “I love you” anymore because I’ve been told it isn’t a good idea to remind him that he doesn’t feel the same way. He’d say “I love you too” but I suppose he didn’t mean it, not in a romantic way. He says that he loves me as a friend right now I don’t know if that’s the right decision or not really.

If you still want to tell him that you love him just in case you could always simply explain that to him. Tell him he doesn’t have to respond in kind, but that you would like to express how you feel. No pressure on him, just a verbal expression of caring from you.

Or you could use a different phrase that both of you know means “I love you” and that wouldn’t make you feel you’re reminding him of his emotional distance or make him feel he has to respond in kind.

I remember a friend was uncomfortable with saying the words in front of people in social situations such as parties, so he would just touch the tip of his wife’s nose with his index finger to say “I love you” without saying a word.

 

[bernadettefaith]

He was unhappy, but still hopeful that things would change. Hope can make us act lovingly even when we don’t feel it.

This man needs to have hope again. Hope comes from getting out of a depression.

He should have communicated with you and in the future, I think he will learn to do so.

Yeah I suppose so. I guess that some things made him unhappy during the entire relationship but he never spoke up. I don’t think he was able to fake the loving actions for over 6 yrs though. Some of it was probably sincere. At least I hope so.

 

[bernadettefaith]

If you still want to tell him that you love him just in case you could always simply explain that to him. Tell him he doesn’t have to respond in kind, but that you would like to express how you feel. No pressure on him, just a verbal expression of caring from you.

Or you could use a different phrase that both of you know means “I love you” and that wouldn’t make you feel you’re reminding him of his emotional distance or make him feel he has to respond in kind.

I remember a friend was uncomfortable with saying the words in front of people in social situations such as parties, so he would just touch the tip of his wife’s nose with his index finger to say “I love you” without saying a word.

Yeah my main hangup with saying “I love you” was that he felt the need to respond in kind and that it just reminded him of the distance, making him feel guilty. He did say once that he felt that it was justified for him to still say so because he loved me in a way, just not a romantic way.

My other concern is saying “I love you” in front of the kids. I don’t want dd to realize that I’m saying it and he isn’t saying it back. She’s old enough to pick up on that stuff.

 

[MJJean]

Yeah my main hangup with saying “I love you” was that he felt the need to respond in kind and that it just reminded him of the distance, making him feel guilty. He did say once that he felt that it was justified for him to still say so because he loved me in a way, just not a romantic way.

My other concern is saying “I love you” in front of the kids. I don’t want dd to realize that I’m saying it and he isn’t saying it back. She’s old enough to pick up on that stuff.

Ya know, sometimes I think people and counselors/therapists make it all too complicated. He loves you as a person, yes? He’s physically attracted to you, yes? 1+1=2. If he loves you as a person and he’s physically attracted to you then he loves you in a romantic way. Or am I oversimplifying?

 

[bernadettefaith]

Ya know, sometimes I think people and counselors/therapists make it all too complicated. He loves you as a person, yes? He’s physically attracted to you, yes? 1+1=2. If he loves you as a person and he’s physically attracted to you then he loves you in a romantic way. Or am I oversimplifying?

Oh yes, we’ve been over this together several times. He said that when we were married he was attracted to me and cared about me. It just wasn’t “love” because he didn’t feel a connection.

But I’m guessing that his feelings toward me right now are way worse than his feelings toward me when we got married because he gets angry with any form of affection. He says that he doesn’t love me because he doesn’t feel that connection. Of course he’s not feeling a connection because he’s so angry.

I do wish that the counselor had ideas on how move forward in a positive way. It seems like we are just going around in circles here.

 

[Serap]

Yeah I suppose so. I guess that some things made him unhappy during the entire relationship but he never spoke up. I don’t think he was able to fake the loving actions for over 6 yrs though. Some of it was probably sincere. At least I hope so.

From what you’ve told me, he is not capable of faking anything. Take him at face value. If he’s acting loving, he loves you. That’s the kind of guy he is. He is not very complicated really

 

[Serap]

Ya know, sometimes I think people and counselors/therapists make it all too complicated. He loves you as a person, yes? He’s physically attracted to you, yes? 1+1=2. If he loves you as a person and he’s physically attracted to you then he loves you in a romantic way. Or am I oversimplifying?

I agree. I think he still loves her too. He just needs to get over his crisis