Marriage Issue - Lost and Confused

[Serap]

What studies? Please reference some. And how does one define “ok?”

Bernadette I support you for being so strong and trying to save your husband’s soul and your marriage.

I don’t want to derail this thread, nor do I have the time to look up what I read a while ago.

I too support BurnadetteFaith for being so strong and trying to save her marriage and I’m also trying to make her feel better about the worst case scenario. I hope you understand where I am coming from now.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I don’t want to derail this thread, nor do I have the time to look up what I read a while ago.

I too support BurnadetteFaith for being so strong and trying to save her marriage and I’m also trying to make her feel better about the worst case scenario. I hope you understand where I am coming from now.

Thank you to both of you!

I’ve honestly researched the topic and have found studies that supported both views. I think a lot depends on the individual situation - the parents’ relationship, how well they get along after the divorce, etc. I believe that in an abusive situation children would thrive from being away from that environment but I am not sure about how a “loveless” marriage affects the children. Not that I necessarily expect ours to be loveless forever but for right now I don’t think that the lack of affection between my husband and myself affects the little ones. Again, I hope and pray that we turn things around and actually have a good marriage…or at least an ok marriage.

 

[Serap]

Thank you to both of you!

I’ve honestly researched the topic and have found studies that supported both views. I think a lot depends on the individual situation - the parents’ relationship, how well they get along after the divorce, etc. I believe that in an abusive situation children would thrive from being away from that environment but I am not sure about how a “loveless” marriage affects the children. Not that I necessarily expect ours to be loveless forever but for right now I don’t think that the lack of affection between my husband and myself affects the little ones. Again, I hope and pray that we turn things around and actually have a good marriage…or at least an ok marriage.

An ok marriage is a great marriage.

 

[bernadettefaith]

We go back to counseling together tomorrow. I’m not sure how it’s going to go. As much as I want to remain hopeful, I just don’t know what the future holds.

I thought it was a good thing that he liked going to individual sessions. He said that it helps him a lot. Then we talked the other day and he went on about how I’ve wronged him so much over the years. He’s now accusing me of being manipulative but at the same time saying that I’m not like that anymore. He doesn’t give concrete examples so I’m not sure exactly what I did. I was immature when we started dating and I’m sure I made mistakes. I just don’t know how I can account for something that happened almost 10 years ago. He didn’t address the issues with me at the time so it’s very hard for me to recall everything that’s on his mind. I guess that in order for things to get better he has to talk about everything that is on his mind. I know that he needs to get everything off of his chest to feel better but it makes me feel hopeless.

He still insists that he didn’t want to marry me and he did it anyway…and so on. He claims that he had low self esteem and I was his only friend so he didn’t want to lose me. I just don’t get what is going on here. Could a person really fake it for that long? I suppose that he’s just stuck in such a negative place that he can’t get back out.

I’ve apologized for my part and have worked to make amends. He insists that the past has hurt him so much that he might not be able to love me again. He says that he can forgive but he thinks that he would have to find a way to forget everything before he could love again. I just don’t understand why we need to live in the past. Am I being unreasonable?

The counselor said that she likes to see marriages work but she doesn’t know for sure what will happen. I get that she can’t predict the future. She said that the only thing that worries her is that he’s gotten to this negative place and might not get back out. I know that she can’t say if we will end up divorced or not but the negativity does worry me as well.

For right now, he’s only here because of the kids. He thinks that it’s hurting the kids for us to be together as we have a weird distance between us even though we aren’t fighting. I agree - but I think that the solution is to work on the relationship to make it loving. I’m still not seeing how this means that divorce is a good option. I don’t know what he talked about with the counselor but I hope that she didn’t put the idea in his head that we’re harming our kids

 

[Serap]

We go back to counseling together tomorrow. I’m not sure how it’s going to go. As much as I want to remain hopeful, I just don’t know what the future holds.

I thought it was a good thing that he liked going to individual sessions. He said that it helps him a lot. Then we talked the other day and he went on about how I’ve wronged him so much over the years. He’s now accusing me of being manipulative but at the same time saying that I’m not like that anymore. He doesn’t give concrete examples so I’m not sure exactly what I did. I was immature when we started dating and I’m sure I made mistakes. I just don’t know how I can account for something that happened almost 10 years ago. He didn’t address the issues with me at the time so it’s very hard for me to recall everything that’s on his mind. I guess that in order for things to get better he has to talk about everything that is on his mind. I know that he needs to get everything off of his chest to feel better but it makes me feel hopeless.

He still insists that he didn’t want to marry me and he did it anyway…and so on. He claims that he had low self esteem and I was his only friend so he didn’t want to lose me. I just don’t get what is going on here. Could a person really fake it for that long? I suppose that he’s just stuck in such a negative place that he can’t get back out.

I’ve apologized for my part and have worked to make amends. He insists that the past has hurt him so much that he might not be able to love me again. He says that he can forgive but he thinks that he would have to find a way to forget everything before he could love again. I just don’t understand why we need to live in the past. Am I being unreasonable?

The counselor said that she likes to see marriages work but she doesn’t know for sure what will happen. I get that she can’t predict the future. She said that the only thing that worries her is that he’s gotten to this negative place and might not get back out. I know that she can’t say if we will end up divorced or not but the negativity does worry me as well.

For right now, he’s only here because of the kids. He thinks that it’s hurting the kids for us to be together as we have a weird distance between us even though we aren’t fighting. I agree - but I think that the solution is to work on the relationship to make it loving. I’m still not seeing how this means that divorce is a good option. I don’t know what he talked about with the counselor but I hope that she didn’t put the idea in his head that we’re harming our kids

I think the therapist is just trying to get to the root cause of your husband’s negativity and perhaps she is being devil’s advocate and saying things like, “Do you feel that this is healthy for your kids?” His response to her is probably, “No.” and then she’ll say something like, “If you feel that this is unhealthy, then what do you think you should do?”

I doubt she’s giving him any concrete advice to do anything right now.

She is telling you that it could go either way b/c you husband is doing something that is very dangerous to a marriage. He is “repainting” his past with a negative brush. He is choosing to only remember the negative aspects of your relationship and marriage.

This usually always leads to divorce when one spouse begins to re-write their past in a negative light. They stop remembering the good times and focus on only the negative aspects of their memory.

Unfortuntately and I hate to tell this, but this is usually a precursor to separation and divorce. It seems to me like he is lining up all his ducks to leave you and then justify it in his mind.

Were you manipulative 10 years ago? SO WHAT??? That was 10 blimming years ago!!! Heck, I was manipulative too a decade ago!!! All human beings can be manipulative!!!

Take this as a warning for the worst case scenario. If he continues this negative behaviour and he continues to re-write your history in a negative light, expect a divorce. I’m so so sorry!!!

 

[bernadettefaith]

I think the therapist is just trying to get to the root cause of your husband’s negativity and perhaps she is being devil’s advocate and saying things like, “Do you feel that this is healthy for your kids?” His response to her is probably, “No.” and then she’ll say something like, “If you feel that this is unhealthy, then what do you think you should do?”

I doubt she’s giving him any concrete advice to do anything right now.

She is telling you that it could go either way b/c you husband is doing something that is very dangerous to a marriage. He is “repainting” his past with a negative brush. He is choosing to only remember the negative aspects of your relationship and marriage.

This usually always leads to divorce when one spouse begins to re-write their past in a negative light. They stop remembering the good times and focus on only the negative aspects of their memory.

Unfortuntately and I hate to tell this, but this is usually a precursor to separation and divorce. It seems to me like he is lining up all his ducks to leave you and then justify it in his mind.

Were you manipulative 10 years ago? SO WHAT??? That was 10 blimming years ago!!! Heck, I was manipulative too a decade ago!!! All human beings can be manipulative!!!

Take this as a warning for the worst case scenario. If he continues this negative behaviour and he continues to re-write your history in a negative light, expect a divorce. I’m so so sorry!!!

I know that we all can be manipulative in some ways. He does not feel that I manipulated him into marriage but he regrets marrying me and supposedly had a lot of second thoughts about it.

I agree that this is a really, really bad sign. I just want to be sure that we do everything we can to prevent the worst case scenario from happening. I don’t think that the counselor would promote divorce but I also don’t think she would argue against it if he said that was what he wanted. Of course, he’s still insisting that he has no idea what he wants and that’s why he feels the need to talk to the counselor individually.

I have mixed feelings on staying together for the kids. I know that it’s important to have both parents but harmful for them to see a loveless relationship. Ideally, both parties work to make the relationship loving. I believe that the children are a very good reason to work on the marriage even if he thinks that he should have never married me. I do think that there are good reasons to separate, but IMO that only includes adultery or abuse. I definitely don’t think it’s best to stay in an abusive marriage for the kids, but for just an unhappy marriage I don’t know.

 

[Xantippe]

Bernadettefaith said:

“I thought it was a good thing that he liked going to individual sessions. He said that it helps him a lot. Then we talked the other day and he went on about how I’ve wronged him so much over the years. He’s now accusing me of being manipulative but at the same time saying that I’m not like that anymore. He doesn’t give concrete examples so I’m not sure exactly what I did.”

Gaslighting.

“I was immature when we started dating and I’m sure I made mistakes. I just don’t know how I can account for something that happened almost 10 years ago. He didn’t address the issues with me at the time so it’s very hard for me to recall everything that’s on his mind. I guess that in order for things to get better he has to talk about everything that is on his mind. I know that he needs to get everything off of his chest to feel better but it makes me feel hopeless.”

What Serap said about this.

Mention how you feel about this in your joint session. You know what’s ironic? What he’s doing right now is kind of manipulative.

“He still insists that he didn’t want to marry me and he did it anyway…and so on. He claims that he had low self esteem and I was his only friend so he didn’t want to lose me. I just don’t get what is going on here. Could a person really fake it for that long? I suppose that he’s just stuck in such a negative place that he can’t get back out.”

Yep.

“I’ve apologized for my part and have worked to make amends. He insists that the past has hurt him so much that he might not be able to love me again. He says that he can forgive but he thinks that he would have to find a way to forget everything before he could love again. I just don’t understand why we need to live in the past. Am I being unreasonable?”

No. This sounds very depressive, and you should tell your counselor so. Depressive people get into these bad loops where they keep going over and over the same bad stuff, blown out of proportion to their real life, and that’s exactly what he’s doing.

I don’t know if your counselor is savvy enough to see this, but “Getting to the root of” is often a hopeless expedition. Sometimes we’re sad or mad just because we’re sad or mad–it just takes on a life of its own, independent of any causes. Think PMS.

“She said that the only thing that worries her is that he’s gotten to this negative place and might not get back out.”

It’s good she sees that.

I hope she has some techniques to keep him from looping.

“For right now, he’s only here because of the kids. He thinks that it’s hurting the kids for us to be together as we have a weird distance between us even though we aren’t fighting.”

The social science on this is that cold couples don’t harm their children more than divorce, but that divorce hurts children less than living in a home with lots of hostility and fighting. There are books on this–try Judith Wallerstein.

 

[Xantippe]

I hate to say it, but what he’s doing is starting to border on emotional abuse.

You might want to tell your counselor that, if that’s how you feel. It sounds like he’s beating up on you emotionally.

 

[Serap]

I know that we all can be manipulative in some ways. He does not feel that I manipulated him into marriage but he regrets marrying me and supposedly had a lot of second thoughts about it.

I agree that this is a really, really bad sign. I just want to be sure that we do everything we can to prevent the worst case scenario from happening. I don’t think that the counselor would promote divorce but I also don’t think she would argue against it if he said that was what he wanted. Of course, he’s still insisting that he has no idea what he wants and that’s why he feels the need to talk to the counselor individually.

I have mixed feelings on staying together for the kids. I know that it’s important to have both parents but harmful for them to see a loveless relationship. Ideally, both parties work to make the relationship loving. I believe that the children are a very good reason to work on the marriage even if he thinks that he should have never married me. I do think that there are good reasons to separate, but IMO that only includes adultery or abuse. I definitely don’t think it’s best to stay in an abusive marriage for the kids, but for just an unhappy marriage I don’t know.

In all honesty, I’d still stay with my husband if he cheated on me (only once). Often when spouses cheat, it’s because they have a need that is unfulfilled. Cheating for most is a symptom of a bigger problem. The couple could figure out that the problem is and begin working on that. Cheating spouses often really love their significant other…they are just making a really bad decision to find fulfillment outside the marriage.

I agree that abuse is definitely a reason to leave a marriage.

 

[Serap]

I hate to say it, but what he’s doing is starting to border on emotional abuse.

You might want to tell your counselor that, if that’s how you feel. It sounds like he’s beating up on you emotionally.

Yeah…why doesn’t he just kick her while she’s down. Poor Bernadette Faith!!! I feel so so bad for what she is going through!!!

At this point, my hubby would get an ear full…

 

[bernadettefaith]

I hate to say it, but what he’s doing is starting to border on emotional abuse.

You might want to tell your counselor that, if that’s how you feel. It sounds like he’s beating up on you emotionally.

I feel that way too. Though I do think that some or the things I’ve done are borderline emotional abuse as well. I didn’t know it at the time but now I know better. Right now maybe it’s best to avoid relationship conversation with him as it seems to lead to this.

I was discussing emotional abuse with him - in the context of a friend who suffered a much more severe case of it. He asked if I considered him to be abusive in that way and I said no. I don’t know now. I mean, he’s entitled to talk about what is bothering him or had bothered him but I don’t think that it’s ok to bring up things that we’ve already agreed to give up. I don’t think it’s appropriate to refer to me as “crazy” or “a basket case” even if I was like that. If I’m not currently doing those things then I don’t think it’s ok to dwell on them.

 

[Serap]

Yes, I too have read that cold couples who don’t fight are still healthy for children if they stay together. The children don’t really catch on at all. They still feel secure in this environment.

Children in a hostile environment are better off with divorced parents.

 

[bernadettefaith]

In all honesty, I’d still stay with my husband if he cheated on me (only once). Often when spouses cheat, it’s because they have a need that is unfulfilled. Cheating for most is a symptom of a bigger problem. The couple could figure out that the problem is and begin working on that. Cheating spouses often really love their significant other…they are just making a really bad decision to find fulfillment outside the marriage.

I agree that abuse is definitely a reason to leave a marriage.

Yeah I would likely forgive infidelity if it were a one time thing and he was truly sorry. If he refused to leave the other woman than that would be a reason to leave IMO.

 

[Serap]

I feel that way too. Though I do think that some or the things I’ve done are borderline emotional abuse as well. I didn’t know it at the time but now I know better. Right now maybe it’s best to avoid relationship conversation with him as it seems to lead to this.

I was discussing emotional abuse with him - in the context of a friend who suffered a much more severe case of it. He asked if I considered him to be abusive in that way and I said no. I don’t know now. I mean, he’s entitled to talk about what is bothering him or had bothered him but I don’t think that it’s ok to bring up things that we’ve already agreed to give up. I don’t think it’s appropriate to refer to me as “crazy” or “a basket case” even if I was like that. If I’m not currently doing those things then I don’t think it’s ok to dwell on them.

Yes. Everyday is a new day. I feel that it’s mean for him to bring up things you did 10 years ago after you have worked so hard to better yourself.

He’s being selfish b/c he’s very negative and focused on how he feels right now. It may turn around, but I honestly think it will be b/c you snap and tell him to leave if he doesn’t smarten up. If it were me, I’d rather my husband leave now and let me get on with my life. I would become very impatient with this behaviour. You are very patient!!!

 

[bernadettefaith]

Yes, I too have read that cold couples who don’t fight are still healthy for children if they stay together. The children don’t really catch on at all. They still feel secure in this environment.

Children in a hostile environment are better off with divorced parents.

I agree. I absolutely believe that we can be good friends. I’m willing to stay that way indefinitely as long as we keep trying to work on the marriage. I’m thinking that maybe we should try to arrange a talk with our pastor if at all possible. He’s a very busy man but even my lapsed Catholic Dh loves and respects him. However, our priest is extremely difficult to get in contact with. Arranging for our babies baptisms was always difficult as he is too busy to take phone calls.

The trouble would be that I’d have to give details to the secretary who I know pretty well. I don’t mind talking to strangers but she’s the director of religious ed and I volunteer with her…so I feel awkward.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Yes. Everyday is a new day. I feel that it’s mean for him to bring up things you did 10 years ago after you have worked so hard to better yourself.

He’s being selfish b/c he’s very negative and focused on how he feels right now. It may turn around, but I honestly think it will be b/c you snap and tell him to leave if he doesn’t smarten up. If it were me, I’d rather my husband leave now and let me get on with my life. I would become very impatient with this behaviour. You are very patient!!!

Thanks. I do feel the need to stick around while he’s getting help. If he is in fact depressed then I feel that he’s at least trying as long as he speaks to a counselor himself. He was there for a full 2 hours so he obviously has a lot he needs to work through.

 

[Serap]

I agree. I absolutely believe that we can be good friends. I’m willing to stay that way indefinitely as long as we keep trying to work on the marriage. I’m thinking that maybe we should try to arrange a talk with our pastor if at all possible. He’s a very busy man but even my lapsed Catholic Dh loves and respects him. However, our priest is extremely difficult to get in contact with. Arranging for our babies baptisms was always difficult as he is too busy to take phone calls.

The trouble would be that I’d have to give details to the secretary who I know pretty well. I don’t mind talking to strangers but she’s the director of religious ed and I volunteer with her…so I feel awkward.

Don’t feel awkward b/c they would want to help you and if she is married, trust me, she has had her share of problems in her marriage. We all have! Make the call; your marriage needs this help. Your husband respects the priest and the priest will support your marriage.

 

[bernadettefaith]

I agree. I absolutely believe that we can be good friends. I’m willing to stay that way indefinitely as long as we keep trying to work on the marriage. I’m thinking that maybe we should try to arrange a talk with our pastor if at all possible. He’s a very busy man but even my lapsed Catholic Dh loves and respects him. However, our priest is extremely difficult to get in contact with. Arranging for our babies baptisms was always difficult as he is too busy to take phone calls.

The trouble would be that I’d have to give details to the secretary who I know pretty well. I don’t mind talking to strangers but she’s the director of religious ed and I volunteer with her…so I feel awkward - but I’ll do it if I have to.

 

[Serap]

Thanks. I do feel the need to stick around while he’s getting help. If he is in fact depressed then I feel that he’s at least trying as long as he speaks to a counselor himself. He was there for a full 2 hours so he obviously has a lot he needs to work through.

Listen to your gut. If your gut says, “stick it out” then listen to it. You know what is best for you. You do what you feel is right.

Our intuition is such a valuable tool. Even in the worst of times, my gut told me to stick it out and I am so glad I did. My marriage was very frail just 4 years ago.

 

[bernadettefaith]

Listen to your gut. If your gut says, “stick it out” then listen to it. You know what is best for you. You do what you feel is right.

Our intuition is such a valuable tool. Even in the worst of times, my gut told me to stick it out and I am so glad I did. My marriage was very frail just 4 years ago.

It does tell me to stick it out - though I’m getting less hopeful with each passing day. I do feel guilty for everything I’ve ever done to him. I know that I’ve probably driven him crazy just like he’s driving me crazy now. However, I don’t see the need to live in the past. I get that I was pretty crazy at times but I don’t think that it was an everyday thing or even an every month thing. I’m also certain that he never really brought this to my attention. He never pointed out what needed to change or suggested professional counseling.

I’m not sure what the next step is. Maybe I will insist on talking to our priest.