Married Priests

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No, I can’t see Roman Catholic priests being allowed to marry, and I wouldn’t desire that. I’d attribute the shortage of vocations to the priesthood in certain areas more to a lack of orthodoxy and Catholic culture in some dioceses, smaller families, and a culture that devalues church, men, celibacy/sacrifice, and religion in general.

Having been Protestant, where they have married pastors, I would not wish for marriage for priests. Being a husband/father and being a priest are both full-time jobs, and it is difficult to do both with all your strength and attention simultaneously. Generally, the family will lose out to the needs of the church. There are better ways to encourage more vocations in the Church.
 
Years ago, I made an appointment to talk with a Lutheran minister. I arranged for a baby-sitter, drove to the church and he wasn’t there. His daughter had to go to the hospital and he was with her. He didn’t even make arrangements for anyone to call me and tell me that he wasn’t going to be available. That is just fine and dandy, but what happens to his parishoners that also need him. Priesthood is a unique calling from Almighty God. Marriage is a calling also. The two just do not mix.
 
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coeyannie:
Years ago, I made an appointment to talk with a Lutheran minister. I arranged for a baby-sitter, drove to the church and he wasn’t there. His daughter had to go to the hospital and he was with her. He didn’t even make arrangements for anyone to call me and tell me that he wasn’t going to be available. That is just fine and dandy, but what happens to his parishoners that also need him. Priesthood is a unique calling from Almighty God. Marriage is a calling also. The two just do not mix.
I understand your point and I actually think celibacy is a better state for the calling of the priesthood. But I don’t agree that it is the only possible state, the mix can be good.

As stated earlier there are over 100 married Roman Catholic priests and more on the way. Each of these may have the problems you describe and there is nothing to prevent it. I still say that if married priesthood is a problem we should suppress this hybrid now by taking the married Roman Catholic priests out of circulation. That is how it was done in the Middle Ages, the married priests were stripped of their faculties.

On the other hand, with the shortage so acute the priests we do have are just as busy as married men. You could still make an appointment and find he has gone on an emergency hospital call. The average Roman Catholic parish in an urban/suburban setting must have 3000 members, some a great deal more. The average Lutheran parish might have 600 members (I am guessing here). The average Eastern Catholic or Orthodox parish might have 400 members.

I know of an RC parish in Suburban Chicago (Joliet diocese) that has no priest. There must be a couple more but I only know of the one. The trends are showing that in a decade there could be a dozen, and these parishes are pretty big.

While I might prefer a celibate priest I can accept a married one, and I am no liberal. If it helped by just a 5% increase it could make an enormous difference in some areas.

I remember when the permanent diaconate was restored, there was considerable apprehension about the fact that most of these men would be ordained from a married state, yet today no one talks about it. It has turned into a non-issue.

In Christ,
Michael
 
I agree with you Michael. The fact is we have married priests here in the United States. The fact is that while third world countries have an abundance of vocations many of them are married (cultural norms). The fact is that celibacy in the priesthood is not doctrine, it is a discipline, and so it can be changed. We should at least, be consistent. I agree that the practical ramifications of making the celibate priesthood a choice is far reaching and will have to be studied (issues like where does a married priest with wife and family live? for starters) before a decision is made. But I do believe it will be made. Whether or not it will resolve the vocations “crisis” shall remain to be seen. Personally, I believe this shortage is caused by societal norms and a lack of parental encouragement to help their sons discern if God is calling them.
(I am not sure how it is in other places in the U.S., but in my archdiocese, the married priests we do have (3 or 4) are assigned to work in the chancery office or pastoral center, not in a parish, so that’s not helping the parish priest shortages),

Peace…
 
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parishminister:
(I am not sure how it is in other places in the U.S., but in my archdiocese, the married priests we do have (3 or 4) are assigned to work in the chancery office or pastoral center, not in a parish, so that’s not helping the parish priest shortages),
Except in so far as it frees 3 or 4 celibate priests for parish work.
 
We have a married priest at our cathedral. As far as I know he has no problems jugeling a family or the priesthood. But our Eastern Church priests wives (called “pany”, the word for “lady”) are trained for their particular role. I am sure if the Roman Church allowed a married clergy, especially in the US the woman wouldn’t know, or care how to act.
 
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rayray81:
What do you think are married priests in the Roman rites future?
As many people have said in their replies to the question. Yes there is a grammatical error in the question. It needs a comma I think, but I’m no english major. There are probably a few errors in what I am typing right now. Oh well whats done is done it can’t be undone.

That being said.

Now that we have hashed out the poorly worded question. What do you think.

Could you see the Roman Rite allowing something along the lines of what the Eastern Churches allow. Married men becoming ordained. But if your a priest already then you can’t get married.
 
With rare exception, having married clergy would be disastrous.

How does one allow married priests and say “no!” to nuns who want to marry?
 
Nina in NJ:
With rare exception, having married clergy would be disastrous.

How does one allow married priests and say “no!” to nuns who want to marry?
Nuns are not counterparts to priests, monks are. No one is suggesting men bring wives into a monastery.

For those individuals who wish to marry and still live a spiritual life there are many options. 🙂

I am an Oblate of St. Benedict, I do not live in the community. There are third orders for Franciscans and Carmelites (as well as other Communities) and this allows people like you and I to continue a spiritual formation in the family setting or a solitary life in the world. But marriage and community life are mutually exclusive. The exceptions I can think of might be John Michael Talbot’s Little Portion community and New Skete, an Orthodox community founded by Franciscans.

In any case, nuns and sisters, monks and brothers who have already professed leave the community if the calling is not for them, and priests do to!

The upshot is this, being a presbyter is not predicated upon community living, or married life, or hermit life. It can be and has been a calling for all of those lifestyles. Suppressing the married priesthood has not worked, they’re sneaking in! More and more are coming in from the outside and there is no stopping them.

So I guess, it must be disasterous.

Michael
 
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condan:
No. It is not possible.

A priest is an icon of Christ who we know was male.
but you do know that there was a time that Priest were alowed to be married and have kids
 
Nina in NJ:
With rare exception, having married clergy would be disastrous.

How does one allow married priests and say “no!” to nuns who want to marry?
Those Priest who are married are converts and they were ministers in their church and married before converting. When I become a Prient God willing I would not be allowrd to marry nor care to.
 
I think its amazing how strongly most of us Catholics(Roman Rite) cling to the celibate priesthood, as if it were unthinkable or even heretical to have it another way. Let me remind everyone that the Western Church ordained married men up to 1139 A.D., when it was supressed by the Second Lateran Council. And there have been 39 married Popes in Church history, including St. Peter himself, with the last being Hadrian(also called Adrian) II from 867-72.

With that I just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding that the discipline of priestly celibacy were somehow a doctorine of the Church, in the way women cannot be ordained.

But I pose a hypothetical question to everyone. If by some chance a severe priest shortage were to hit the Church, where many parishes would have to close in each diocese, but a sufficient number of married men were willing to be ordained to stave off any parish closures. What would be the worst evil, having parishes close(perhaps even yours), or having married priests?

Let me be clear that I am not “pushing” for married priests, with the state the Church is in right now. But I wouldn’t rule it out if suddenly a deep shortage were upon us over night.😉
 
The comment was made that married priests wouldn’t help the shortage of priests, look at the Orthodox and Protestants. Hunh? Sorry, that lacks logical order. Any more priests would help the shortage, whether they were married or not. The fact that other groups have a shortage doesn’t prove much of anything other than that there is a shortage.

And as to diocese with married RC priests from the Lutherans or Episcopalians, I think sticking them in the Chancery is dishonest; they are ordained; put them in a parish. We have one who was a Presbyterian minister, and the people in his parish love him.

I don’t think we will get a married clergy, with the possible exception of getting a third world pope; they might look at the whole issue differently. But I am not holding my breath.

My feeling is that the way the Roman rite talks about it makes the other 20+ Churches in union with Rome to be some sort of second class group. Celibacy is a completely seperate vocation from priesthood. Would that Rome could see to encourage mightily the combination of celibacy and priesthood, and the courage to ordain whoever is called, married or celibate. :clapping:
 
rayray81: “Could you see the Roman Rite allowing something along the lines of what the Eastern Churches allow. Married men becoming ordained. But if your a priest already then you can’t get married.”

This is my feel: no. The parish structure in a Latin Rite parish does not make it feasible to have married priests, like the Eastern Churches have. RC parishes are waaaaay too big, pure and simple. As is often brought up about married RC clergy that have converted to the Church, it is not condusive to married life. One must keep in mind that where married clergy in Eastern Churches are the norm (in the mother countries) the parishes are much smaller (they are very small here as well, even smaller than in the Old Country), and typically 100-300 families (how many RC parishes can you name that are that size?). Also, the Priest is not the only cleric in residence. There is sometimes a Deacon (whose primary task is the worldy administration of the parish), usually Minor Order clerics-a Reader, a Cantor (both of who often are the main leaders in the parish, also they are in charge of catechesis), and in some locals, a Sextant (who lived at the church to ensure that it was always open, but no one would harm anything, and also act as sacristan). The Priest leads the sacramental and liturgical life of the parish-he is responsible first and foremost of safeguarding the Eucharist (this is explicitly mentioned in the ordination rite for the priesthood in the Byzantine Rite), and leading the congregation in worship, not only of Divine Liturgy, but also of Vespers and Orthros (a composite service of Nocturns, Matins of two varieties, and Lauds), and whatever service or blessing needs to be done. Even the Mystery of Divine Repentence (Confession) and preaching are really not high priorities strictly speaking, as not all Priests have the faculties (are permitted by the bishop) to do these things (one will only see this among the Orthodox in Greece and Russia, and other places, and only rarely here, pretty much all Catholic Priests are givien these faculties).

So the point: the role of the Priest has a slightly different emphasis, and whatever needs to be done in a parish, outside of the Sacraments and liturgical worship, properly is not for the Priest in an Eastern parish, but is for others, though the Priest does (or should) have the final say in all matters, though he may not actively participate in these other things. All these factors more readily allows for the Priest to have more time, time that he can devote to his family. Of course, in the RC parish setting, the flock is much, much larger, and the clerical staff is much smaller or non-existant, and he has many more responsibilities and demands to meet. (BTW, in Eastern Catholic parishes practice in the USA, things tend to be closer to this latter statement in emulation of the Latin Church, though we are slowing returning to our proper ways.)

In Christ,
Adam
 
I find it interesting that the question revolving around a married priesthood has transformed itself into a consideration of the vocation crisis within the Church. I have noted as of late in many of the brochures and requests for funding which I receive from the missionary orders is that their need is not in vocations but in the amount of dollars and resources to place a man in seminary. It would seem that if we are in fact concerned about having Priests, we could bring some of these young men to our country if they would be willing. It somewhat begs the question who the real missionary country is.

God Bless.
 
"It would seem that if we are in fact concerned about having Priests, we could bring some of these young men to our country if they would be willing. "

I agree. Europe and North America are the new mission territories. However, i fear many will not accept these priests, as they tend to be doctrinally and morally orthodox, and very much into mysticism and charismaticism (in the early-20th cen., Anglicans and Evangelicals had a difficult time missionizing in Africa-to the African, if what these folks was saying were true, then they, too, would be able to show this through miraculous and supernatural signs, for does not Jesus say that his followers will perform signs greater than His?). Latin America shows the same patterns. This would move the Euro-centric type subdued Christianity that we are used to closer to the models we see testafied to in the New Testament and other early Church writings, and this would make a lot of people uncomfortable on a lot of levels. The Church in these parts would be more dynamic, evagelical, and oppositional and confrontory than we see here and now. Heck, we may end up actually making this into a good Catholic country. That is scary for the worldly.

In Christ,
Adam
 
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toutestgrace:
I will leave the spiritual reasons for a celibate priesthood up to the experts. However, the argument that we need a married priesthood to solve the priest shortage just doesn’t make sense to me. The practical disadvantages seem to outweigh whatever increase in numbers may occur. Married men would not be more available to their flock, due to family obligations. And oh, the financial nightmare! I can just hear the parishioners scrutinizing where the priests wife and kids go shopping, how many cars they have, how their house is furnished, the salary…yeesh! After taking a real look at the lifestyle of a priest, I wonder how many men and their wives would flock to embrace it.

…Musings of an ex-teenage-rectory-phoneanddoorbell answerer who saw enough to know she would not want to be the wife of a priest.
This is so true! The TV show Seventh Heaven and others give such a misleading picture of what married ministry is usually like even for non-sacramental pastors. I can’t quote the source, but I’ve read that the typical married Protestant pastor works 60+ hours a week, earns in the teacher-social worker wage range, and has a working spouse to make ends meet. They pastor small parishes of under 100 members where there is very little staff or assistance. However, the large mainstream Protestant denominations, which are I think actually have a minority of Protestant ministers, do much better all around. For them there is such a surplus of ministers that each parish is able to do an intensive search when they hire a minister. There is nothing wrong with these different systems, but it would be an enormous shock to the sytem of Catholic parish life.
 
akemner said:
"It would seem that if we are in fact concerned about having Priests, we could bring some of these young men to our country if they would be willing. "

I agree. Europe and North America are the new mission territories. However, i fear many will not accept these priests, as they tend to be doctrinally and morally orthodox, …

In Christ,
Adam

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Europe and North America are not the new mission territories. There is a lot of mythology surrounding this idea.

There is only one third world country that seems to have a great abundance of vocations, India. I would like someone, anyone, to propose which third world countries might be ripe for sending their sons to be our priests.

What follows is a listing of the top ten Catholic countries by population, as well as a few more I added at the end of the list. hoping to find a third world country in there with priests to spare. I shamelessly copied this information from a website here and I am not sure how old the facts are but somebody needs to introduce some solid factual information into the idea that there may be a source for foreign priests out there.

Compared to the rest of the world, we have a glut of priests.

*Due to the size of my post, I must put this list up separately.

SEE POST #60*

In Christ,
Michael
 
i think it’s offensive to the Holy Spirit to say a married priest would be less capable of serving than a celibate one. no person of their own merit is capable of serving the Most High; it is only by His mercifully and abundently given grace that anyone, be he Moses, Aaron, Melchizedek, or even John Paul II, can be suitable for the priesthood. to think a married priest would be lacking is to think the Holy Spirit would be un-able to give him the needed graces. that’s rude, my God can’t be put on a leash like that; He can do anything.
my pastor is married and i’d stack him up against anyone else’s pastor. he can be fully husband and father to his family and still step away from the dinner table because i need to go to confession. God gives him the merits needed to serve all of the those children sent to him.
romans should avoid demeaning the valid calling of priestly husbands; God is the one calling, making it holy and good.
instead, proclaim loudly the beautiful charism of the latin rite in havng Daddy only call men who are able to forego married life to serve Him in that tradition. if we build up the celibate life, say, by recognizing that such folks don’t have a family structure to help them and going out of our way to spend time with them (outside of liturgy), we may will help young men (and women) see themseves as wanting to be consecrated and celibate. then they will again fill those vacations we see vacant today.
tearing down will only leave rubble.
thanks for listening, love and peace, terry
 
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