Married Priests

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misericordie:
I really Hope the Church stays catholic, and does not allow priests to marry in the latin/Roman rite.
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I am certain the church will always be Catholic!
 
Andreas Hofer:
A general rule of thumb is that if a country is considered to be traditionally Catholic, its number of orthodox practicing Catholics is dramatically smaller than its on paper total of those who are willing to mark the Catholic box on the census.
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I’m not even sure how many of these numbers are properly calculated. In the US and many other countries, the Census does not ask for religious affiliation. So the numbers come from the Church and there’s no clear cut definition used in the self-reporting by the faith groups. Most of the US numbers seem to come from an ongoing tally of members starting from a certain day + Baptisms - Deaths. Obviously that’s not a very accurate stat.
 
You won’t see married priests until Catholics start to tithe. If we refuse to pay a living wage to our Catholic school teachers (whose children are in public school because they can’t afford the tuition where they teach), we won’t be able to pay a priest enought to support a family, let alone send his kids to Catholic schools. We have married men in holy orders, the deacons, who just came back from their national conference. Most of them are retired and relying on pensions or SS, or their wives are still working, or they have side jobs if they are in parish work. Very few have actual church “jobs” with decent salaries. A protestant congregation of perhaps 300-400 families can pay the preacher enough to live in the same lifestyle as the congregation, plus pay a youth pastor, children’s pastor, administrative staff and so forth, but a Catholic parish of 2000 families can barely make expenses, let alone pay a man with a growing (non-contracepting) family enough to live on.
 
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asquared:
You won’t see married priests until Catholics start to tithe. If we refuse to pay a living wage to our Catholic school teachers (whose children are in public school because they can’t afford the tuition where they teach), we won’t be able to pay a priest enought to support a family, let alone send his kids to Catholic schools. We have married men in holy orders, the deacons, who just came back from their national conference. Most of them are retired and relying on pensions or SS, or their wives are still working, or they have side jobs if they are in parish work. Very few have actual church “jobs” with decent salaries. A protestant congregation of perhaps 300-400 families can pay the preacher enough to live in the same lifestyle as the congregation, plus pay a youth pastor, children’s pastor, administrative staff and so forth, but a Catholic parish of 2000 families can barely make expenses, let alone pay a man with a growing (non-contracepting) family enough to live on.
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Hello asquared!

You are absolutely right!

Too bad though, it’s a sad commentary, but you’re right.
 
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asquared:
You won’t see married priests until Catholics start to tithe. If we refuse to pay a living wage to our Catholic school teachers (whose children are in public school because they can’t afford the tuition where they teach), we won’t be able to pay a priest enought to support a family, let alone send his kids to Catholic schools. We have married men in holy orders, the deacons, who just came back from their national conference. Most of them are retired and relying on pensions or SS, or their wives are still working, or they have side jobs if they are in parish work. Very few have actual church “jobs” with decent salaries. A protestant congregation of perhaps 300-400 families can pay the preacher enough to live in the same lifestyle as the congregation, plus pay a youth pastor, children’s pastor, administrative staff and so forth, but a Catholic parish of 2000 families can barely make expenses, let alone pay a man with a growing (non-contracepting) family enough to live on.
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It’s actually quite the opposite. Having been a parish council member in a parish with a married priest, I can tell you with great confidence that he had no problem living on the wage we paid him. Why? Break it down:

Monthly salary: +$1200
Mileage reimbursement: +$600-800/mo average
Wife’s salary as parish administrator: +$2200
Rent/mortgage: $0 (they lived in the rectory…quite comfortably…and had no living expenses)
Utilities: $0 (they’re paid for him just like they’re paid for every other priest)
Catholic school tuition: $0 (like all employees of the parish, the tuition was free for the pastor)
Insurance (auto only…health/home owners coverage provided by parish or diocese) -$150
Auto payments: -$400
Health Care: $0 (like all priests, the local doctors in the parish didn’t charge)
Dental Care: $0 (likewise for the dentists…they took whatever insurance covered)
Food: -$700 (actually probably less considering how many buffets we had every month)

So out of over $4000/mo paid to him and his wife, they really didn’t have to spend all that much to live well. I’d venture to guess that even clothing for the family didn’t cost all that much considering all the hand-me-downs that were given to them and the fact that his wife shopped at the local thrift stores regularly. When you take housing and health care out of the picture, a married man can live very comfortably on what the parish pays. Having his wife there makes it a nice package deal because then there’s also a full time secretary/administrator/school board member/field trip chaperone/lay minister/marriage counselor/telephone answering service for the parish. We ended up actually saving money and got a wonderful priest and shepherd out of it.

BTW, the issue of health care always seems to come up. The parish pays health insurance costs on the priest anyway. The parish pays 85% of the health insurance on other employees of the parish…married or not. By actually insuring 1 family instead of a priest and a family, the cost was significantly less than if we’d hired a separate parish administrator or secretary and had to share the costs of insuring her plus the costs of insuring a priest. So the economics are very favorable for everyone.
 
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Hesychios:
I shamelessly copied this information from a website here and I am not sure how old the facts are
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Michael,

David Cheney’s numbers are from Annuario Pontificio 2003, so it’s 2002 data.

Many years,

Neil
 
first off hiring the priest’s wife as a parish administrator sounds like nepotism, is certainly hope she is qualified for what she is doing. I assume they have no small children, since you except them both to work to make ends meet. Kids in day care? Contracept or NFP or can they afford kids on what you pay? Free Catholic school tuition through college? Glad your doctors are so accommodating. On my planet, doctors and other professionals don’t give anything away free, and diocesan health care for a family is over 400 a month, with 20 copay and 25 per prescription, 1000 family deductible, that sure adds up fast for a family with kids. How many hours does each them put in? Does that allow for quality family time with kids? Do most of your parishioners shop at thrift shops and make do with a video and pizza at home? Is their family living at a standard on par with your average parish family? What will they have to forego for their kids that the rest of you take for granted?
 
I don’t see why the priest’s salary should be compared with that of the average member of the parish. The priest should have a living wage for his family. Many people at the parish will make more than that. I’m guessing they will also give far less of it away than they could/should. A priest is called to witness to the kingdom, and part of that witness should be a freedom from posessions. Not necessarily a lack thereof, but an insistence that happiness cannot be bought. Having a little less (or a lot less, as long as it is a living wage) money does not damage children in a loving household, in fact it is probably a greater character builder than many other lessons.
 
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asquared:
On my planet, doctors and other professionals don’t give anything away free, and diocesan health care for a family is over 400 a month, with 20 copay and 25 per prescription, 1000 family deductible, that sure adds up fast for a family with kids.
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That actually is pretty common. My father is a physician and he took care of all the sisters in the convent plus the parish priests at no charge to them. He took whatever diocesan insurance paid. One of the scout masters in the parish was a dentist, and I know he did the same for them on dental care.

My sister is now a physician and has taken over where my dad left off, any religious would not be charged a dime in her office.

(My dad’s nominally retired, but still donates 2 days a week at an Church run inner city clinic for the poor.)
 
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rjmporter:
Check this out:

pages.ivillage.com/imhabba63/marriedcatholicpriest/id20.html
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Thanks. The material collected there seems quite dubious. The most damning of canons it lists (“27 D”) allows that readers and cantors are free to marry (but implied in the commentaries I can find: they also forego further clerical advancement). Indeed, I believe up until the supression of the minor orders, those clerks who had attained them were still free to pursue marriage.

Not very convincing for the case of allowing ordained me to marry.

tee
 
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tee_eff_em:
Thanks. The material collected there seems quite dubious. The most damning of canons it lists (“27 D”) allows that readers and cantors are free to marry (but implied in the commentaries I can find: they also forego further clerical advancement). Indeed, I believe up until the supression of the minor orders, those clerks who had attained them were still free to pursue marriage.

Not very convincing for the case of allowing ordained me to marry.

tee
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Sorry, I must have mis-read. I thought that the question was about allowing married men to be ordained not about allowing ordained men to marry.
 
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blondeone:
It might happen after the death (God-Forbid) of Pope JPII. There is a dire need for priests. Other demonations have married clergy, why can’t Catholicism? It is already happening to a point. The church is accepting former Lutheran and Episcopal pastors as priests and they are allowing them to stay married.

Blondeone
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I have to agree with that. Deacons are married and are ordained…so why not ?
 
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spetreopn:
As St. Paul tells us those who are married will be concerned with the things of this world, i.e., their spouse, etc., while those who do not marry are free to be concerned with God. It would be both a disservice to the Church and to the priest’s family if he were to marry.
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BINGO!
 
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BabyCatholic:
I have to agree with that. Deacons are married and are ordained…so why not ?
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Re-read the question attached to the survey.

Yes: “married and [then] ordained”. The question seems to ask “ordained and [then] married” which is against the long-standing Tradition of the Church.

tee
 
We see lots of scandals in the Church so why not. I think the Church should allowed their priets to marry eventually. It’s better to let them be married than they have affairs, still lead masses, and teach at the Seminary schools.
 
I know more than a few deacons that would be priests if they could be. The biggest drawback is that many of the wives wouldn’t approve especially if they also brought back in the west that the married couple had to swear an oath of abstinence before ordination. 😃

God Bless
 
There is a married priest in our parish and everyone loves him. He was in a parish before we got him. He lives with his family and doesn"t neglect his priestly duties. Everything seems to be O.K.
 
And Paul wrote to Timothy: “That the Spirit spoke expressly, that, in the latter times, some should depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats;” 1 Tim 4:1-3;

This is revelation that explains the practices of the Roman Catholic Church in forbidding priests to marry and the rules concerning abstaining from meat on certain holy days.

As far as women not being allowed to be ministers it is an invention of the church.

“There no longer be man or woman but one in Christ”

Read the bible and become enlightened or deny the truth and believe the great apostasy of the Roman Catholic Church.
 
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