Married to a high schooler

[Trident_H]

These kinds of posts are always so difficult. You obviously feel very under-appreciated, and rightly so. A good husband and partner would hopefully catch on to these kinds of things, and I’m going to say his behavior seems incredibly selfish. But it’s a problem a lot of men face, and they really have no outlet. He’s working to support a family, which causes an incredible amount of stress, so his going out with his friends is more than likely his way of coping with the day-to-day stress of working. That said, he also shouldn’t be doing so in a way that excludes you or puts unnecessary burden on you. Raising kids is a full-time job of its own, and you also need and deserve breaks, which he may simply not understand. To him, he probably sees your children on weekends, late at night around dinner time, so on, so he most likely doesn’t realize how difficult they can be at times.

The most significant issue with this situation, as well as most situations like it, is a lack of communication. Or even worse, a fear of communication. You don’t want to be seen as the nagging wife, as you say, but your husband isn’t being responsible. He’s your husband, and he’s your children’s father. So many people, men and women, end up making some really regrettable life choices that often boil down to a less than adequate relationship with their father. Don’t bring this up in any kind of argument with him, however. I’m just trying to communicate that you seem to be right and his behavior is a problem. Do bear in mind, though, that it is an incredibly common problem, especially with men today. Workaholics are that way because they often don’t understand how important their families are to them, and simply take them for granted. Which is very sad, and no fault of yours, but from his perspective, he’s very likely seeing it as himself working very hard all the time without even giving himself necessary time off because he needs to financially support his family, and his time with friends or talking to people after work is something he earned for working so hard.

Now, more from his perspective. He might honestly feel unappreciated. Humans remember negative events more easily than positive ones. Compliment him more often. That’s one thing a huge number of men reported when asked on a reddit thread regarding difficult things women don’t know about being a man. Men don’t get compliments. Our only value to society as a whole, and this is subconsciously drilled into our heads all the time, is what we can do or produce. Which leads to the (incorrect) conclusion that we aren’t worth anything as people. That thought, coupled with the stigma associated with getting mental or emotional help as a man, is one of the reasons so many men have psychological problems, depression, etc. Men don’t really ever get compliments based solely on who they are as a person or their appearance. Tell him a shirt fits him really well, tell him his hair looks really good today, tell him he looks sexy in those pants. Whatever the case may be. But make it genuine. Tell him how much you appreciate that he reads to your kids at night, and how much they love him for that.

Also important. You mentioned when he’s home on weekends, he sleeps late, plays video games, eats snacks and whatnot. For him, that is relaxation. For you it may be going out to get coffee with some friends. If you were to suggest something like “let’s go to the zoo today instead” or something like that, he will more than likely see it as a chore and you trying to plan out his day, even if you don’t intend it that way. That’s how he does “not working.” Speaking from personal experience as a guy, if someone wants me to get up from a video game to go do something, I tend to resent it simply because they aren’t being understanding of the fact that I’m already having fun. So it may well breed resentment if he’s interpreting every suggestion as another list of tasks he needs to do. Which again, isn’t your fault, but it’s not exactly his fault either, other than by him not being empathetic enough to understand where you’re coming from.

Also, you both need to go out on dates. Even if that date is just putting the kids to sleep and sitting on the couch to watch a movie, so long as it’s something both of you want to do together. Kids are a full time job, but you can’t raise them properly if your relationship with your husband isn’t working. Do things you *both *enjoy together. But it can’t be a chore for either of you. I noticed this with my girlfriend’s mom and stepdad. They’d go on one date every week, hire a babysitter or have grandma watch gf’s younger brother, and then go out to eat or go see a movie. But it was on a schedule, like every Friday, and instead of enjoying each other’s company, would use it as an opportunity to air grievances and try to solve their issues. Which always turned into a one-sided argument and more stress than if they’d just stayed home. Which breeds more resentment, which results in more unhappy “dates” which results in more arguments at home, more misbehaving kids, more eye rolling by my gf and her grandma… It becomes a cycle. Do not use dates or alone time together as an opportunity to bring up problems. If your husband is spending time with you, be sure that time is enjoyable. A date is not the time for an argument or a discussion or a talk.

I’m just ranting advice at this point, so I hope you understand I don’t find you to be at fault here, just trying to help as best I know how. I may be way off base with everything I said, so I apologize if so. I’ll include you in my intentions later today.

What an excellent write-up, buddy! That’s a bit of solid thought right there. Nice and even

 

[Trident_H]

“you have to praise him” and “he works so hard” and “you have to show him you appreciate him”

There’s a phrase we use in TX for that- it’s in the refrain of the Cotton Eyed Joe… “y’all say what?” B…S…

This man-child thing of playing video games all night, binging on TV while eating junk food, going out with the guys after work-- it’s an epidemic in our narcissistic culture. It’s a **real **problem. These men literally do not see themselves as parents or partners.

I am really baffled by all the advice here to praise him and “understand” his behavior. His behavior is 100% unacceptable.

You know. Usually I find your comments really helpful and top-shelf. Like usually I come into a thread and see your comment already there and figure that’s about the limit of what needs to be said. I mean between you and a few others I’ve pretty well been left with of thoughts on mute.

But this one I’m not really understanding. I mean is it wrong to give compliments? Is it wrong to try to meet someone where they’re at in order to move them back to a normal place?

Maybe I don’t know how to motivate others very well. But I do know that if someone took the time to figure out what I liked and spent time with me doing it? I’d sure be a lot more aware of what they liked too. I’d sure be in a lot more open mood about learning that. I mean I’d feel really sort of uneasy about not even trying at that point.

But if someone came up to me and pointed out all my wrong and pulled my ear while doing it? I doubt I’d give change any real thought. Maybe I might feel bad if some of what they said was right? But then I’d remind myself of all the places where they fell short too. I think maybe I’d focus on that for a spell and dig in my heels.

But then again I’m not really the best at relationships.

I don’t know.

Peace 1ke.

-Trident

 

[Wesrock]

I will pray for you. I don’t know what advice to give, but he seems a little dismissive towards you. Finding a playgroup with other mom’s sounds like an interesting way to share the load and spend time with people, but nothing is wrong with finding a sitter. I think your husband does need to prioritize the family more. Perhaps you coukd at least start small and make a point that he should be having meals with the family when home and on his days off. It sounds like you two need some date nights, too, at least a couple days a month, if not more often.

I’m no marriage counselor, though, but truly, best of luck in your marriage. While it sounds like he may be slacking, you may need to be the one to take the initiative.

 

[DarkLight]

You know. Usually I find your comments really helpful and top-shelf. Like usually I come into a thread and see your comment already there and figure that’s about the limit of what needs to be said. I mean between you and a few others I’ve pretty well been left with of thoughts on mute.

But this one I’m not really understanding. I mean is it wrong to give compliments? Is it wrong to try to meet someone where they’re at in order to move them back to a normal place?

Maybe I don’t know how to motivate others very well. But I do know that if someone took the time to figure out what I liked and spent time with me doing it? I’d sure be a lot more aware of what they liked too. I’d sure be in a lot more open mood about learning that. I mean I’d feel really sort of uneasy about not even trying at that point.

But if someone came up to me and pointed out all my wrong and pulled my ear while doing it? I doubt I’d give change any real thought. Maybe I might feel bad if some of what they said was right? But then I’d remind myself of all the places where they fell short too. I think maybe I’d focus on that for a spell and dig in my heels.

But then again I’m not really the best at relationships.

I don’t know.

Peace 1ke.

-Trident

Having dealt with some people…the problem is you have to be careful not to let the cost of moving them back into normal mean it eats up your entire life. What I’d be afraid of, as the OP, would be ending up in a situation where, for example, the wife ends up only doing the stuff the husband sees as fun - because he “sees it as another task” when his wife gets to pick what they do for fun. Or where (as is already going on), his relaxation is important and a time to destress, but her relaxation is a burden and an imposition on him. Basically, you don’t want to try to work with him if the only way it’s going to be “workable” for him is for his wife to be a doormat who gives him whatever he wants, butters him up all the time, and doesn’t complain about his behavior.

And I’d say this sounds very much like a man who wants a doormat for a wife.

 

[1ke]

Because showing no sympathy whatsoever and giving people who are already behaving badly ultimatums has solved so many disputes in the past.

Please show me where I told anyone to do this.

 

[1ke]

You know. Usually I find your comments really helpful and top-shelf. Like usually I come into a thread and see your comment already there and figure that’s about the limit of what needs to be said. I mean between you and a few others I’ve pretty well been left with of thoughts on mute.

But this one I’m not really understanding. I mean is it wrong to give compliments? Is it wrong to try to meet someone where they’re at in order to move them back to a normal place?

Maybe I don’t know how to motivate others very well. But I do know that if someone took the time to figure out what I liked and spent time with me doing it? I’d sure be a lot more aware of what they liked too. I’d sure be in a lot more open mood about learning that. I mean I’d feel really sort of uneasy about not even trying at that point.

But if someone came up to me and pointed out all my wrong and pulled my ear while doing it? I doubt I’d give change any real thought. Maybe I might feel bad if some of what they said was right? But then I’d remind myself of all the places where they fell short too. I think maybe I’d focus on that for a spell and dig in my heels.

But then again I’m not really the best at relationships.

I don’t know.

Peace 1ke.

-Trident

This woman basically came here asking if her expectations of a husband and father is out of whack. If she is asking too much.

And people went into “tell him you appreciate him” and “praise him” and “oh he works so HARD…” “Join him in the video game fest”.

NO she is not asking too much. And we ALL work hard. SHE works hard.

Asking a father to parent his own children is NOT too much. Asking a member of the household to participate in it including home keeping is NOT too much. Asking a member of the household to engage in family life is NOT too much.

What I did not say: Give an ultimatum. Be mean. Point out everything he does wrong.

 

[Trident_H]

Having dealt with some people…the problem is you have to be careful not to let the cost of moving them back into normal mean it eats up your entire life. What I’d be afraid of, as the OP, would be ending up in a situation where, for example, the wife ends up only doing the stuff the husband sees as fun - because he “sees it as another task” when his wife gets to pick what they do for fun. Or where (as is already going on), his relaxation is important and a time to destress, but her relaxation is a burden and an imposition on him. Basically, you don’t want to try to work with him if the only way it’s going to be “workable” for him is for his wife to be a doormat who gives him whatever he wants, butters him up all the time, and doesn’t complain about his behavior.

And I’d say this sounds very much like a man who wants a doormat for a wife.

Maybe. I mean maybe it is the worst case scene that’s happening. Maybe he really is a total self-absorbed wonder-****.

But just as likely? He’s staying away because the atmosphere’s heavier than it once was. And sure that could also still be because he’s oblivious to how much work and how little support his wife gets? But I can’t talk to him from here. All I can do is give thoughts on how to get positives again on the inside of that relationship.

So of course this is a one-sided effort to start. Because there’s only one player at the table here.

And of course you’re right. There’s nothing positive to be had by having one side give all. The idea is just to start in a direction that opens up more room for a joint spirit of cooperation. Obviously if one side tries and the other just leans over even more? There’s no point in carrying on that way.

But just in case all that’s missing is that first bit of positive? I usually think it’s worth giving it a try first.

I mean there’s nothing stopping anyone from going super-nova after trying all upbeat tricks have failed.

Peace DarkLight. Hope you understand.

-Trident

 

[Trident_H]

This woman basically came here asking if her expectations of a husband and father is out of whack. If she is asking too much.

And people went into “tell him you appreciate him” and “praise him” and “oh he works so HARD…” “Join him in the video game fest”.

NO she is not asking too much. And we ALL work hard. SHE works hard.

Asking a father to parent his own children is NOT too much. Asking a member of the household to participate in it including home keeping is NOT too much. Asking a member of the household to engage in family life is NOT too much.

What I did not say: Give an ultimatum. Be mean. Point out everything he does wrong.

Alright 1ke. I get you. I see what you didn’t say. And I see what you think isn’t right for decent thought.

But what I don’t see is your suggestion on how to get this engine started back uphill. What’s your thought on that? How would you do it?

 

[DarkLight]

One thing that occurs to me…it might be time for him to look for a new job.

I’ve worked at walmart. I wasn’t a manager, but I had a chance to talk to them (including some saying I might be able to become one). They all work crazy hours. From what I’ve seen it was a pretty uniform job expectation - since they don’t have to pay salaried managers overtime, all the extra work falls on them.

 

[Xantippe]

One thing that occurs to me…it might be time for him to look for a new job.

I’ve worked at walmart. I wasn’t a manager, but I had a chance to talk to them (including some saying I might be able to become one). They all work crazy hours. From what I’ve seen it was a pretty uniform job expectation - since they don’t have to pay salaried managers overtime, all the extra work falls on them.

Right.

It might be informative to take his pay and divide it by his hours. I suspect that on an hourly basis, he’s not doing that great. He might even be earning less per-hour than his employees.

A guy who is always gone ought to be earning enough to be able to afford a couple hours of babysitting a week.

By the way, OP, have a look at parents’ day out or local preschool options. Your older child might really benefit from PDO or preschool.

 

[Trident_H]

One thing that occurs to me…it might be time for him to look for a new job.

I’ve worked at walmart. I wasn’t a manager, but I had a chance to talk to them (including some saying I might be able to become one). They all work crazy hours. From what I’ve seen it was a pretty uniform job expectation - since they don’t have to pay salaried managers overtime, all the extra work falls on them.

Good point!

 

[guiltycatholic]

Swisscath, thank you for the prayers. I actually just started using Kindara but have also just started having problematic periods so that’s why we have to abstain for now. It will probably just be a few more months, unless more happens.

I haven’t seen my priest because my priest is a little dismissive. As in, his answer will most likely be (as it’s been in the past with other issues) that we’ll die one day and then we’ll be in heaven so just be good to each other. Not much practical help.

When I try to talk to my husband about it, he has two basic reactions. Either he can’t really even hear me because he’s getting so angry and trying to think of what he’s going to say back. Or he puts himself all aside and really listens, and apologizes and makes resolutions, and then forgets all of it by the next week. He and I are opposites in that I’m very analytical and remember facts and stick to resolutions… he’s more of a free thinker and forgetful and easygoing.

Monte RCMS, thank you.

Trident H
He was the same way when we were dating, except a little more attentive to me. What drew me to him was the fact he was Catholic and from my town and my parish and even the same family, way back. We share a common heritage, with its traditions. He went to Mass with me every day. Time with him was free - we did whatever we wanted, outside of jobs and school.

Everything has changed since then. He’s changed (matured and grown A LOT too) and I’ve changed completely. Now we have kids. I’m always tired. I developed chronic health problems. We have responsibilities. We fight about budgeting. Everything is so different from the carefree days of dating.

I do try to meet him where he is, except I refuse to play video games with him since I’d rather do anything else in the world. I see him at his work all the time, and I get him treats often. He and I are on different diets - I have to eat a special diet because of my health issues and he eats chicken nuggets and canned cheese on a regular basis - so I buy food he enjoys just for him. That’s just an example. I have never taken him something at work. That sounds sweet, I’ll do it soon.

I respect him a lot… in some ways. I know that’s terrible. I used to respect his job a lot, until he started acting like it was the most important position on planet earth. Then I just have to put it in perspective and balance it out with reality.

I do compliment him and I try to make our home environment as pleasant as possible. I do special things to make him comfortable and feel good about being home. It just has no effect. Most times he notices and says thank you, but it doesn’t seem to matter too much to him. And even he acknowledges that I put more effort into our marriage than he does. He thinks it’s sort of funny.

IrishMom2, we do go to church together as a family when we can. Which means, around his work schedule. His schedule fluctuates so that’s different every week. And I go whenever he can go just to be with him. He suggests sometimes that he go alone and then I take the kids myself later, but I make every effort for this not to happen.

Right, I don’t need to sneak around and I shouldn’t have to. But if I want to get a babysitter, the only way I can do it is if he doesn’t know about it or I just look him right in the face while he’s telling me not to and do it anyway. That’s the point of why it’s a problem.

He is trying to get ahead with his job. He has been for the past 10 years. Instead, others get promoted around him because he doesn’t know how to go after it. That’s not something I respect about him. But I do respect him as a human being. I respect him for his commitment to our family, as in not cheating or walking away. I respect him for keeping a job so long and for the way he’s able to talk with people. I really do love him.

He has no complaints about the way I welcome him. I’ve asked him this many times, especially early on in our marriage. The more I do, the more he feels overwhelmed by me. He’s like, “All I did was come home, just carry on.” I’m not all about myself every time I see him. But when he hasn’t seen me in two days because of his work schedule and then he comes home to tell me he’s just changing clothes to go out… then I get upset and “make it about myself” … because it IS about me at that point.

And my view is that it’s less about the children. Yes, they need time and attention from their father, too. But more than that, I need a connection with my husband. In fact that’s a source of contention with me. Because often when he only has ten minutes to spare, he spends it reading them stories instead of talking to me at all. Even after I’ve mentioned I’m starving for some interaction. He prioritizes them over me frequently.

My children are 2 and 4. I do talk to friends occasionally but it’s not really something I can talk about easily with them. That’s why I came to a forum, because no one here knows him and will form opinions of him based on this and think less of him or something.

 

[guiltycatholic]

Indigo Cardinal, no he’s never been out of work. When we were dating he worked two jobs but quit one. His work does offer counseling, I’ll have to look into that. I’m nervous about seeking counseling that’s not specifically Catholic. That’s one reason I posted about it here. When I post marriage questions on other online places, the advice is decidedly NOT Catholic.

Indigo Cardinal and Jake Parker,
I’m really sorry I offended y’all with my comment about single people. I wasn’t referring to picking up any slack at work at all. I’m in complete agreement there. Remember, I was single and childless before I was married and mommy, so I know full well that you are a person too. I was referring to doing things outside of work just for the heck of it, such as taking someone home instead of going home to your family. It wasn’t meant to single out those who are unmarried and without children, that was just an example of someone who is almost by definition less needed at home. The chances are WAY higher that a single person without children could take time out to do that. I don’t see it as a putdown at all and I didn’t mean it as such in any way. If I tell my husband I NEED some time away from the kids and he says “yeah yeah” and then purposefully makes that impossible, that’s what I’m talking about. Mamanurse understood it.

3 Dog Night
Relateable. My mom lived this story, without the divorce. She just left, without a divorce. I am also not for divorce and I don’t see that as a favorable outcome in my situation. But yes I think there are natural consequences to that type of behavior and I’m trying to help nature along!!

That makes sense that he expects me to put up with him no matter what his behavior is, because his own father is like an overgrown child and his mother doesn’t mind at all. I also grew up in a similar situation. My dad was not involved in our lives and my mom ran everything. It’s like I learned that pattern and now I don’t know the right way to do it.

All of his “going out” times happen very late at night. It’s often until 1am and there’s drinking involved. Or it’s a Slipknot concert, or something. So taking the kids is out of the question. I do try to plan fun things for the family to do together but my husband only wants to relax at home when he’s off work, so he considers it an imposition to have to go somewhere.

Xantippe, thank you for this response! I have said #1 to him before, but it backfires because he interprets it to mean that I think his job is insignificant in our lives. He balks when I say that he could possibly one day be let go from the company. He literally believes he is irreplaceable there.

#2 - see comments above, I say this but he sees it as an imposition to go out and do things on his day off. I never really considered before what a double standard he has. It’s kind of like he’s met his quota for being out with friends so he can’t do more of it with me.

I LOVE the 60 hours a week solution! That’s something concrete I can do and it gives him a clear boundary instead of just me complaining at what seems to him as random times. I’ve been trying to avoid any kind of “tally” system for fear that it’s immature or whatever. And it drove him crazy for the few months that I tracked his work hours. He would get angry every time I talked about it because he said I was just gathering information to hold against him later, to prove how much he works. I was like, yeah that’s exactly what I’m doing. haha!

It’s HILARIOUS that you bring up a budget, because I’m the Budget Queen, the “nerd” and have been trying to follow Dave since before we got married. Hubby is the “free spirit” and I CANNOT get that man to stick to a budget. If I manage to save anything, he spends it. Unless I hide it, which makes me feel sneaky. He hates overdrawing our account and the constant financial mess we’re in, but I guess it just doesn’t bother him enough to DO something about it. We fight EVERY time we work on the budget, which has gotten less and less because I hate conflict so much. I’d rather just be poor, you know? I have managed to get us mostly out of debt (which he grudgingly acknowledges) and saving for retirement.

 

[guiltycatholic]

tinamn and Eliza10
It is VERY comforting to have the solidarity of someone who gets it. I know that people who’ve never lived it simply don’t get it, and that’s not their fault. Especially people who say I’m lucky that I “get” to stay home because he’s such a good provider. I am educated for a high paying career but I chose to stay home for one reason and one reason only: the more I do, the less he does. Period, end of story. However much money we make, he will spend. There is no luxury of staying home, at least no more than there would be in having a satisfying career and self-reliance. Sometimes it’s very discouraging to hear those comments. I just think, “Yes, it’s so wonderful that I have to stay home all the time, live in a 2 bedroom apartment instead of a house, drive a 15 year old car, shop at thrift stores… man I’m so lucky I got this cush life all thanks to my husband working those extra 40 hours a week!”

I can handle the household tasks. I’m not perfect at it, but it is easy enough and I have the perks of enjoying my children. But as anyone with children knows, they aren’t always a basket full of sunshine. Homemaking may be easy, but it’s not exactly fun or the path I had planned to take. I do the best with what I have and that’s pretty good. I just need a break sometimes.

I agree I need to find an approach that works better. Oftentimes the best approach is just to wait it out until he’s not as busy at work (which won’t be till after the new year). Of course, when we’re able to have “marital relations” that helps. He’s always a lot nicer and tries harder then because he’s got something to gain.

I will look into that Dobson book. We have been to counseling in the past, for about two years of our marriage total. Basically the same issues, just different time in life. She talked about me pursuing him and him running away. Together with him there, she advised me to stop pursuing him. She told him that it was time for him to pursue me, and that would be easier if I wasn’t pursuing him. So we made a followup two weeks later. I had stopped pursuing him - it was difficult but I did it. I stopped being “needy” and trying to initiate time together and conversation. And he still ran away. We addressed this at the next counseling session. He saw for the first time that he doesn’t pursue me. And for a few months he tried. But then it went back to normal.

Tighty Whitey, thanks for your prayers! (Now there’s a sentence I never thought I’d say!)

Kurisu53712,
Yes. Many days he doesn’t see the children at all. He has no idea what it’s actually like for me at home. I took a trip once out of state for two days, and when I came home he told me that they were much worse for him than they ever are for me. Ha!

I know he feels unappreciated by me. And I hate that. I’d love to make him feel great all the time. But I honestly feel like I would have to bow down and worship him to make him feel as important as he thinks he is. I appreciate what he does - which is about as much as what I do. We all do a lot, now can we just get on with life? I know that’s not a respectful way to put it. I’m a little exasperated. But seriously, I’m not going to give him a trophy for doing the basic dad/husband things. I thank him and I reciprocate. If he needs more than that, I consider that to be something he needs to work on, not me.

I hate creating this competitive atmosphere in our marriage - like a who does more, who deserves a break and when/how much, who works harder. He’s always comparing us. The fact is that we both have days where we work hard and give it our all, and other days when we’re tired and lazy. There’s no exact measurement. I know he works hard at his job - at the very least he works in a way that he considers hardworking, which is all that matters. I know that I work hard at home, at least in my way. This isn’t about who does more. It’s about BOTH of us needing breaks periodically.

I read the Love Languages so I actually compliment him A LOT. Like a lot lot. He seems to take that as a cue that he’s done enough and can stop now.

Yes that’s exactly how he feels about me suggesting activities together. You’re dead on. Unfortunately that means that he always gets what he wants and I have to deal with it.

And that’s another issue with the dating. Ensure it’s a good time for him by avoiding anything remotely resembling intimacy, like discussions. That just doesn’t work for me. I’d rather say “today is your day, tomorrow is my day” just so I can also get my needs met. And that’s definitely not the way I would like for it to be. Sadly, what he enjoys and what I enjoy are so different that we don’t get to enjoy something together very often.

Allegra - solidarity

1ke Thank you for that opinion and the laugh! I am from Texas and I understand your lingo. I know that what you wrote was not a script for me to recite to him. I’m glad you understand and aren’t trying to sympathize with irresponsible behavior. That’s pretty frustrating. I don’t need to find him help, I’m the one who needs the help! It’s nice to know I’m not the only one who sees it this way. (Am I perfect? Definitely not. So I won’t say he’s the only one responsible. But it is HIS behavior that’s causing the problem, not mine. He was like this before he met me, so I’m not “causing” it in some way.)

Katherine438, that is a lot worse than what I’m going through and it’s a huge encouragement that you could work past even that. I’m sorry anyone has to go through that. God bless you!

 

[guiltycatholic]

Trident H,
on your second point, I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree that the atmosphere is heavier than it once was. Life is basically all work now. Never leaving the house. Surrounded by children and their toys and their mess and their constant needs. Rarely talking to another adult. No love life. Not even knowing what’s going on in the world outside because we don’t have TV. I don’t see any way I can be “lighter” considering this is my life. I’m asking him to solve this very problem with me. Sometimes it feels like that’s the way he wants me, and he wants to be the one who gets to enjoy and experience life and friendships and success.

Honestly, if he’s satisfied not spending time with me very much (and he is) then I’ve come to a place where I can accept that. But by golly I need SOMEONE to connect with, and not just be cooped up all the time.

DarkLight,
yes it’s definitely the nature of the job. I’m fine with the weekends and holidays and long hours - but there should be some recompense. Because if those are HIS hours, those are also MY hours. And I never agreed to work for Walmart. A few years ago I tried to get him to change jobs. But he didn’t really look and now he has advanced to the point that he would be making less to start new somewhere else. After 10 years, he considers this his forever career and would never change it.

 

[guiltycatholic]

Right.

It might be informative to take his pay and divide it by his hours. I suspect that on an hourly basis, he’s not doing that great. He might even be earning less per-hour than his employees.

A guy who is always gone ought to be earning enough to be able to afford a couple hours of babysitting a week.

By the way, OP, have a look at parents’ day out or local preschool options. Your older child might really benefit from PDO or preschool.

I’m going to do the math on this. The problem is, they keep promising him this big promotion and he believes it’s coming soon. They started about four months ago telling him two or three more weeks… two or three more weeks… THEN he’ll get a $20,000 raise and he agreed to buy a house so I can have a yard for the kids and not lug groceries up the stairs with two toddlers anymore. I am sure there is no way he’ll change jobs. He believes he’s just “paying his dues”

 

[1ke]

Alright 1ke. I get you. I see what you didn’t say. And I see what you think isn’t right for decent thought.

But what I don’t see is your suggestion on how to get this engine started back uphill. What’s your thought on that? How would you do it?

Personally, I have no suggestions for “how to get this engine started back uphill” because SHE cannot do anything about HIS behavior.

What would I do? Given what she posted more recently, I would: get the high paying job I’m trained for, pay for quality child care for my kids, open a bank account he has NO access to, and stop living the life she is living now.

 

[Xantippe]

Xantippe, thank you for this response! I have said #1 to him before, but it backfires because he interprets it to mean that I think his job is insignificant in our lives. He balks when I say that he could possibly one day be let go from the company. He literally believes he is irreplaceable there.

#2 - see comments above, I say this but he sees it as an imposition to go out and do things on his day off. I never really considered before what a double standard he has. It’s kind of like he’s met his quota for being out with friends so he can’t do more of it with me.

I LOVE the 60 hours a week solution! That’s something concrete I can do and it gives him a clear boundary instead of just me complaining at what seems to him as random times. I’ve been trying to avoid any kind of “tally” system for fear that it’s immature or whatever. And it drove him crazy for the few months that I tracked his work hours. He would get angry every time I talked about it because he said I was just gathering information to hold against him later, to prove how much he works. I was like, yeah that’s exactly what I’m doing. haha!

It’s HILARIOUS that you bring up a budget, because I’m the Budget Queen, the “nerd” and have been trying to follow Dave since before we got married. Hubby is the “free spirit” and I CANNOT get that man to stick to a budget. If I manage to save anything, he spends it. Unless I hide it, which makes me feel sneaky. He hates overdrawing our account and the constant financial mess we’re in, but I guess it just doesn’t bother him enough to DO something about it. We fight EVERY time we work on the budget, which has gotten less and less because I hate conflict so much. I’d rather just be poor, you know? I have managed to get us mostly out of debt (which he grudgingly acknowledges) and saving for retirement.

It’s awful that he doesn’t realize that his employer really doesn’t love him. By the way, there’s a book you might want to get from the library (or at least read a summary of):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_bind

Here’s a summary: “Hochschild found in her research that although most working parents, particularly mothers, said “family comes first”, few of them considered adjusting their long working hours, even when their workplaces offered flextime, maternity leave, telework, or other “family friendly” policies. She concluded that the roles of home and work had reversed: work had become more attractive, offering a sense of belonging, while home had grown more stressful, becoming a dreaded place with too many demands.”

Remind you of anybody?

He might really hate the 60 hour solution–but it’s fair, and it’s reasonable. If a 60 hour week away from home doesn’t justify 2 hours of babysitting, I don’t know what does. The lifestyle that you have described contains lots of money for your husband’s fun–but not so much for you. I think it’s time to call him on that. It’s not fair and it’s not sustainable long-term.

I also recommend the book “Boundaries in Marriage”–although I don’t like some of their tit for tat strategies. What I do like is their encouraging a loving, respectful, firm, truthful style of dealing with erring spouses.

It’s good that you are paying off debt and managing retirement.

You’ve probably heard Dave Ramsey talk about dealing with “free spirits” and one of the methods he mentions is sitting down with them and getting them to talk about their dreams. And then the question is, how do we get from here to there? That’s a tough one to pull of gracefully, but it can be done.

I’m a reformed spender, and what did it for me was realizing that we had two kids, debt that wouldn’t go away, and we were no closer to homeownership than we’d been four years earlier. I really wanted a house, and that goal helped me buckle down, cut spending, pay off debt, save and get us to where we were able to save a good-sized downpayment. But I could not have done it just for the sake of economizing–I needed to have the goal right in front of me.

(By the way, DO NOT buy a house with your husband until he shapes up on helping at home. A house requires a lot of maintenance work, and I do not think your relationship is in a place where a house would bring you joy.)

 

[Xantippe]

I’m going to do the math on this. The problem is, they keep promising him this big promotion and he believes it’s coming soon. They started about four months ago telling him two or three more weeks… two or three more weeks… THEN he’ll get a $20,000 raise and he agreed to buy a house so I can have a yard for the kids and not lug groceries up the stairs with two toddlers anymore. I am sure there is no way he’ll change jobs. He believes he’s just “paying his dues”

Guiltycatholic,

Reading your thread, I’ve had a dreadful thought.

You don’t suppose that your husband’s work habits and time management are a little iffy at work, too?

It could be that the reason he’s not getting ahead is that (even if he’s there a lot and they can always count on him), he’s not very efficient and the higher-ups can see it?

If that’s true, I don’t know how to say that without giving offense.

 

[Xantippe]

Personally, I have no suggestions for “how to get this engine started back uphill” because SHE cannot do anything about HIS behavior.

What would I do? Given what she posted more recently, I would: get the high paying job I’m trained for, pay for quality child care for my kids, open a bank account he has NO access to, and stop living the life she is living now.

That is an option.

Doing it part-time (if possible) might be a good intermediate step.