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Xantippe
Guest
Right.
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guiltycatholic
Guest
That’s my feeling a lot of times - glad someone understands. Suggestions?
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guiltycatholic
Guest
Well tonight I proposed the idea to him that I get a babysitter when he works 60 or more hours per week. He said sure, he could maybe ask his mom once in a while. I said no, I wanted to hire someone so it was a sure thing. (His mother usually says no, and she has her married daughter with husband and 5 children living with her right now). I also said we were going to need to start prioritizing time together and budgeting.
Three and a half hours later, it’s not good. He’s spent all this time ranting how that’s the most selfish and unloving thing he’s ever heard, how he bends over backwards providing everything so that I can sit around doing nothing and have whatever I want. He threw in how he still puts up with me even though I have health problems and I’m not a prefect house cleaner. It escalated quickly to him discounting the entire 7 years since we met, telling me that nothing I say counts for anything since he can’t trust me and I take advantage of him. He said I’m just like my mother, just like his ex gf who was a drug addict and cheated on him, just like our priest who talks too much and “beats a dead horse” in his homilies… He brought up everything he thought would hurt me, like: he could just kick me out, he could move to that other state with his job without me, no other man would talk to me, I neglect the children, etc etc
Basically he was extremely upset and said a bunch of mean ridiculous stuff. He gets really viscous when he’s angry, but several days later he’s always very humble and apologetic. (I get crazy when I’m upset too sometimes, so no judgement!) Granted, I am a little heartbroken, and the only thing that kept me going was praying the Hail Mary and St Micheal prayer to myself the whole time. I managed to stay calm through it all and honestly I’m a little relieved. Because that was it - the worst is over. And “the worst” is just him experiencing emotional upset, like I have been for several years while we’ve been avoiding this.
I am really sad that he had to experience that, but if that’s what it takes to regain some sanity and equality in life then it’s worth a night of arguing. I know he won’t talk to me for the next few days, and we’ll fight about it again. He is sleeping on the couch and says he can’t stand to be near me. I’m going to need prayers to be strong and find distractions.
I thought about telling him I’m considering going to work, since he was holding it so far over my head that I don’t. But I figured that in his extremely negative and emotional state, he would just take that in some convoluted way and make it worse.
I’m probably going to talk to my priest, even if he blows me off like before. And schedule some time out with my friends. Please pray for me, and him, and our children.
Three and a half hours later, it’s not good. He’s spent all this time ranting how that’s the most selfish and unloving thing he’s ever heard, how he bends over backwards providing everything so that I can sit around doing nothing and have whatever I want. He threw in how he still puts up with me even though I have health problems and I’m not a prefect house cleaner. It escalated quickly to him discounting the entire 7 years since we met, telling me that nothing I say counts for anything since he can’t trust me and I take advantage of him. He said I’m just like my mother, just like his ex gf who was a drug addict and cheated on him, just like our priest who talks too much and “beats a dead horse” in his homilies… He brought up everything he thought would hurt me, like: he could just kick me out, he could move to that other state with his job without me, no other man would talk to me, I neglect the children, etc etc
Basically he was extremely upset and said a bunch of mean ridiculous stuff. He gets really viscous when he’s angry, but several days later he’s always very humble and apologetic. (I get crazy when I’m upset too sometimes, so no judgement!) Granted, I am a little heartbroken, and the only thing that kept me going was praying the Hail Mary and St Micheal prayer to myself the whole time. I managed to stay calm through it all and honestly I’m a little relieved. Because that was it - the worst is over. And “the worst” is just him experiencing emotional upset, like I have been for several years while we’ve been avoiding this.
I am really sad that he had to experience that, but if that’s what it takes to regain some sanity and equality in life then it’s worth a night of arguing. I know he won’t talk to me for the next few days, and we’ll fight about it again. He is sleeping on the couch and says he can’t stand to be near me. I’m going to need prayers to be strong and find distractions.
I thought about telling him I’m considering going to work, since he was holding it so far over my head that I don’t. But I figured that in his extremely negative and emotional state, he would just take that in some convoluted way and make it worse.
I’m probably going to talk to my priest, even if he blows me off like before. And schedule some time out with my friends. Please pray for me, and him, and our children.
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ConfusedLucy
Guest
At least get your own bank account, there is no good reason for a married woman not to have one. Did your husband have his father in his life? I think there are some things men need to learn that are best taught by an older more worldly man.
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kptrs
Guest
His behavior is not acceptable, not in the least. It is beyond immature and disrespectful to you, his wife. I’m at a loss for words.
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Xantippe
Guest
“Honey, it sounds like we’ve got a lot of stuff to talk about in counseling. You sound really upset. I’m going to start booking appointments. We’re going to need to pay a sitter for that, too.”
If he ranted for 3.5 hours, he can’t deny that he’s got a lot of stuff to talk about!
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Xantippe
Guest
Don’t ask his permission to get a sitter. You’re telling him what’s going to happen, not asking him.
Keep just briefly explaining the situation and giving him choices. (Honey, either you spend less than 60 hours away from home a week or I will book a sitter to get help. It’s up to you what we do–you can either be home more and help more, or I’m going to hire a little help/put big kid in parents’ day out once a week.)
Don’t say a lot. Don’t fight. Just say what you mean and then stop.
Keep just briefly explaining the situation and giving him choices. (Honey, either you spend less than 60 hours away from home a week or I will book a sitter to get help. It’s up to you what we do–you can either be home more and help more, or I’m going to hire a little help/put big kid in parents’ day out once a week.)
Don’t say a lot. Don’t fight. Just say what you mean and then stop.
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Xantippe
Guest
Also, “I’m here to talk about XYZ. If we’re not talking about XYZ, I need to go to bed. Baby Boy is getting up in 5 hours. We can talk tomorrow.”
Don’t allow arguments to drag on past midnight. Nothing good ever happens after midnight.
Keep it short, keep it simple, avoid saying anything mean.
Good luck!
Don’t allow arguments to drag on past midnight. Nothing good ever happens after midnight.
Keep it short, keep it simple, avoid saying anything mean.
Good luck!
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1inICXC
Guest
A lot of great advice on this thread and I’m happy you are trying to implement some of it.
As someone who has temporarily been in your situation I’d like to share a few realizations I had and that I notice in almost every other marriage around us.
My husband was always quite excessive with his work but I was independent and with plenty of things to do so while we did have a few fights about that while we were dating, it didn’t even compare to what it came to after we got married and had our first baby. Now I was completely stuck, with every other hour bf schedule etc. all of a sudden, over time, even a bit of it was driving me mad. And the harder things were at home- with too many sleepless nights- the more he was getting absorbed in work and his own things. With our second, not much changed except that he agreed to get hired, part-time, help which was MUCH better but I still preferred a daddy and a husband to a nanny. He started getting vey involved with our toddler who was relatively easy but the baby was mostly me. Now, with our third there was no more running away. He knew there was no way I can attend to the house and to 3 kids under 4 so all of a sudden he stepped up. And with time he began to enjoy it. We started truly feeling like a family unit- though a very exhausted one.
And that’s when I realized, men- and women are passionate about the things they are good at. Most of us are not good at babies and kids. Most of us have ZERO experience in that. And as humans, we hate feeling inadequate. So we seek refuge in the things that we are good at. To be honest, I would have probably run back to academia or work if I had that choice myself. Simply, there was nothing harder than taking care of 3 little ones who are fully dependent on you for every little thing and come with no manual.
As you grow in your parenting vocation you start feeling at ease and enjoying it…but with all that time spent at work, men rarely have the chance grow in their vocation to fatherhood. Worse yet, they are probably surrounded by other men who are complaining and running away from family life because they also don’t feel adequate in that position.
So 2 solutions I see and that worked for us: 1) have him invest the time so that he can grow and start feeling adequate and even HAPPY with this new “job”(where your heart is there your treasure is also…and where you spend most of your time, there is your heart) and
2) find male role models who can inspire him to be a good and strong father and husband.
Unfortunately, whatever comes just from you will probably get him on the defensive. A friend, a father, a boss anyone frome the outside really would be much more helpful. I am sorry your priest is not the kind to demand the best of his parishioners. A marriage needs other people beside the husband and the wife, esp in these situations. This is when you need good father-in-law or other elders.
I would recommend Thomas Taylor’s The Maccabbees society (an online place for real men!), if there’s a group in your area, they’re the real deal and I am sure they would not only challenge your husband but also inspire him!
As someone who has temporarily been in your situation I’d like to share a few realizations I had and that I notice in almost every other marriage around us.
My husband was always quite excessive with his work but I was independent and with plenty of things to do so while we did have a few fights about that while we were dating, it didn’t even compare to what it came to after we got married and had our first baby. Now I was completely stuck, with every other hour bf schedule etc. all of a sudden, over time, even a bit of it was driving me mad. And the harder things were at home- with too many sleepless nights- the more he was getting absorbed in work and his own things. With our second, not much changed except that he agreed to get hired, part-time, help which was MUCH better but I still preferred a daddy and a husband to a nanny. He started getting vey involved with our toddler who was relatively easy but the baby was mostly me. Now, with our third there was no more running away. He knew there was no way I can attend to the house and to 3 kids under 4 so all of a sudden he stepped up. And with time he began to enjoy it. We started truly feeling like a family unit- though a very exhausted one.
And that’s when I realized, men- and women are passionate about the things they are good at. Most of us are not good at babies and kids. Most of us have ZERO experience in that. And as humans, we hate feeling inadequate. So we seek refuge in the things that we are good at. To be honest, I would have probably run back to academia or work if I had that choice myself. Simply, there was nothing harder than taking care of 3 little ones who are fully dependent on you for every little thing and come with no manual.
As you grow in your parenting vocation you start feeling at ease and enjoying it…but with all that time spent at work, men rarely have the chance grow in their vocation to fatherhood. Worse yet, they are probably surrounded by other men who are complaining and running away from family life because they also don’t feel adequate in that position.
So 2 solutions I see and that worked for us: 1) have him invest the time so that he can grow and start feeling adequate and even HAPPY with this new “job”(where your heart is there your treasure is also…and where you spend most of your time, there is your heart) and
2) find male role models who can inspire him to be a good and strong father and husband.
Unfortunately, whatever comes just from you will probably get him on the defensive. A friend, a father, a boss anyone frome the outside really would be much more helpful. I am sorry your priest is not the kind to demand the best of his parishioners. A marriage needs other people beside the husband and the wife, esp in these situations. This is when you need good father-in-law or other elders.
I would recommend Thomas Taylor’s The Maccabbees society (an online place for real men!), if there’s a group in your area, they’re the real deal and I am sure they would not only challenge your husband but also inspire him!
L
Lou2U
Guest
This. Your husband has no right to speak to you in this way. If he does again, tell him calmly that you’re going to do X and you’ll speak to him again when he’s calmed down - and then do it. It doesn’t matter if he says it in anger and doesn’t really mean it, the problem is that he’s saying it and carrying on for over 3 hours.
Definitely speak to your Priest.
Lou
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1ke
Guest
He has something seriously wrong with him. I mean SERIOUSLY WRONG.
If it were me, I’d start planning an exit strategy.
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Lou2U
Guest
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pensmama87
Guest
I’m not so sure I’d plan on leaving just yet, and briefly, here’s why:
- He may not know any other way to fight than fighting dirty (and the tactics he pulled on the OP are definitely dirty fighting). Lots of people simply never learn how to “fight fair” (or actually problem solve.)
- He may feel incredibly threatened by the OP finally sticking up for herself. After all, his situation is pretty good. He may have absolutely no idea how much his wife actually suffers. This is no way an excuse, but over time, as the shock of it wears off, he may very well learn and “man up.” I’d give him a chance to do that. It will become apparent soon enough if he’s willing to learn or not, if you stick to your guns.
- Definitely involve counseling at this point, to help with 1 and 2.
- But yes, have an exit strategy. This is not healthy relational behavior. It could improve, and I’d give it time to do that (a few months, say), but if you feel unsafe at any time clear out for your sake and your children’s.
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DarkLight
Guest
Adding my voice to the “this is very wrong” crowd. It’s time to tell him that he has NO RIGHT to speak to you that way, and that you are going to a marriage counselor. Even if he doesn’t go with you, go to a counselor. It’ll help provide a voice of sanity and what is and is not reasonable.
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guiltycatholic
Guest
I’ve been thinking about role models too. Unfortunately my husband chooses not to participate in the men’s groups at our parish, even when he’s off work for them which is rare. Even when he used to go, he’s not the kind to open up at all so he wouldn’t get any help he needs. But at least he’d hear from other men who are trying to do good too. But he refuses to go. He’s not interested in “self help” or counseling and refuses to talk to the priest. The priest would refer us to a counselor (has in the past) who is about an hour away from us, and he simply refuses to go. It becomes another scheduling conflict. I can go by myself and I may do that.
The bad thing is that my husband chooses friends who are single men around the age of 20 who live with their parents and main interests include rock concerts, drinking, video games, and women. My father is totally uninvolved and closed off. His dad is a friendly alcoholic who never really grew up. (Hubby’s parents were teenagers when he was born, and they’ve kind of stayed in the same place through the years)
His influences are just depressing, but there’s nothing I can do about that. He finds no connection with “family men” and doesn’t befriend them.
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pensmama87
Guest
This is all not good.
Go to counseling alone since he won’t go. You can learn how to set boundaries and stick to them, how to protect your kids and yourself, and how to cope.
I have a suspicion you’d have to put your foot down in a big way, and even then he may not grow up. That stinks, but you deserve to be treated with basic human dignity and at present he’s refusing. That’s a big deal.
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Lou2U
Guest
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guiltycatholic
Guest
Yes, I’ve gotten used to disproportionate reactions from him. He’s usually a VERY calm, good-humored and easygoing guy, but when he does snap, it’s bad. He fights dirty but yes, that’s just the way he grew up and learned to do it. I’m not saying it’s “ok” or anything, obviously I wish it were different. But I understand why he reacted that way. Because he feels like I’m telling him that what he’s doing isn’t good enough, that he’s not good enough. Now, that’s not the way I would have taken it, but I can see how he took it that way. He tends to take my words and read into them and latch on to his perspective without trying to understand what I’m actually saying. So when I told him things aren’t working for me and I need some help, he took it as a personal attack on him. He brought up every nice thing he’s ever done for me and felt like I was discounting all of that. Even if I told him otherwise, he wasn’t able to hear me anymore. He got his feelings hurt first thing and then totally engaged his emotions with no more rational thought. So it makes sense that if he was believing the thoughts he was telling himself, then he would react so strongly. He translated my words into, “You’re worthless, you’ve never done anything right in our marriage, I expect you do everything for me and I’m just going to take from now on.” If I’d said that, his reaction wouldn’t have been as disproportionate, and it doesn’t matter what I actually said if that’s what he heard.
And I admit that, even though I stayed completely calm and didn’t yell or cry or lecture, I refused to walk away. I know this drives him crazy but when we don’t resolve a conflict, he literally forgets about it and acts like nothing ever happened. I know I won’t see him the rest of the week because of work, and then basically all this “blows over” and he sees no problem. So I bring it up again and the same cycle repeats. This pattern has happened countless times in our marriage. We never actually move into the resolution phase. I’m sick of it so I kind of cornered him and refused to let it go. Not thatt that helped either. The counselor told us years ago that when he needs a break to cool down in an argument, that’s fine but he needs to come up with a day/time that he promises to come back and address it. And last night he point blank told me he wasn’t going to come back to it because the solution is just for me to deal with it.
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Xantippe
Guest
You don’t need to “resolve” it at this point.
You’ve told him you’ll get a sitter if he works or is gone over 60 hours a week. Now, get a sitter.
He doesn’t have to like it, he doesn’t have to agree to it, but he has been informed.
Good luck!
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