Married to a high schooler

[Trident_H]

Personally, I have no suggestions for “how to get this engine started back uphill” because SHE cannot do anything about HIS behavior.

What would I do? Given what she posted more recently, I would: get the high paying job I’m trained for, pay for quality child care for my kids, open a bank account he has NO access to, and stop living the life she is living now.

So basically you’d give up?

Well I guess that’s an option I figured on for later.

But ok.

Maybe that is the shortest distance between 2 points.

Or maybe it is later already?

I don’t know.

 

[1ke]

So basically you’d give up?

Well I guess that’s an option I figured on for later.

But ok.

Maybe that is the shortest distance between 2 points.

Or maybe it is later already?

I don’t know.

No,not give up. Change the only person I can change-- me.

Five years is a long time. How much longer do you suggest she keep trying and hoping he changes before SHE starts to make changes that bring stability to their finances and peace to her soul?

 

[Xantippe]

No,not give up. Change the only person I can change-- me.

Five years is a long time. How much longer do you suggest she keep trying and hoping he changes before SHE starts to make changes that bring stability to their finances and peace to her soul?

Right.

He says she can’t have any time off because they don’t have the money. I doubt that a lot, given the spending patterns the OP describes, but it would make that a lot harder for him to say if she were bringing in a solid income.

Sad to say, a lot of women find that their husbands are more respectful when the wives are working. (That describes one of my close relatives.)

 

[guiltycatholic]

Personally, I have no suggestions for “how to get this engine started back uphill” because SHE cannot do anything about HIS behavior.

What would I do? Given what she posted more recently, I would: get the high paying job I’m trained for, pay for quality child care for my kids, open a bank account he has NO access to, and stop living the life she is living now.

Wow that’s much more drastic than I was thinking. Thanks, it helps to consider that I have that option. Makes me feel less trapped. I have considered going into that line of work especially now that my children are getting older and my medical problems may prevent me from having any more. Sounds like a good option.
I still don’t know about separate bank accounts, this is one area I fell we should get together on instead of just avoiding the issue. I currently have a separate account that I use for a side business I do, and he doesn’t touch it although he has access. It’s really only used for the business that funds it and if I ever want a coffee or something.
I am going to think and pray about this.

 

[guiltycatholic]

It’s awful that he doesn’t realize that his employer really doesn’t love him. By the way, there’s a book you might want to get from the library (or at least read a summary of):

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_bind

Here’s a summary: “Hochschild found in her research that although most working parents, particularly mothers, said “family comes first”, few of them considered adjusting their long working hours, even when their workplaces offered flextime, maternity leave, telework, or other “family friendly” policies. She concluded that the roles of home and work had reversed: work had become more attractive, offering a sense of belonging, while home had grown more stressful, becoming a dreaded place with too many demands.”

Remind you of anybody?

He might really hate the 60 hour solution–but it’s fair, and it’s reasonable. If a 60 hour week away from home doesn’t justify 2 hours of babysitting, I don’t know what does. The lifestyle that you have described contains lots of money for your husband’s fun–but not so much for you. I think it’s time to call him on that. It’s not fair and it’s not sustainable long-term.

I also recommend the book “Boundaries in Marriage”–although I don’t like some of their tit for tat strategies. What I do like is their encouraging a loving, respectful, firm, truthful style of dealing with erring spouses.

It’s good that you are paying off debt and managing retirement.

You’ve probably heard Dave Ramsey talk about dealing with “free spirits” and one of the methods he mentions is sitting down with them and getting them to talk about their dreams. And then the question is, how do we get from here to there? That’s a tough one to pull of gracefully, but it can be done.

I’m a reformed spender, and what did it for me was realizing that we had two kids, debt that wouldn’t go away, and we were no closer to homeownership than we’d been four years earlier. I really wanted a house, and that goal helped me buckle down, cut spending, pay off debt, save and get us to where we were able to save a good-sized downpayment. But I could not have done it just for the sake of economizing–I needed to have the goal right in front of me.

(By the way, DO NOT buy a house with your husband until he shapes up on helping at home. A house requires a lot of maintenance work, and I do not think your relationship is in a place where a house would bring you joy.)

I will check out those books and definitely try the 60 hours idea first. I think that’s a very doable place to start and maybe it will let him see I’m serious before I take more drastic measures.
Honestly, if the situation was reversed I might do the same thing. It’s just plain easier. While considering buying a house, he actually told me to look for places about an hour away from his new job location so he can “have time to wind down from work” before coming home! I found a great house about 10 minutes from his new location (this is the place where they are supposedly going to transfer him when he gets the long awaited promotion) but he said he doesn’t want to live so near his job. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
As the spender, he has had some aha moments. But it’s not enough to motivate long term change. Old habits die hard and it’s especially difficult for him because he’s just not a planner. He helps me live in the now so it’s great, but obviously it affects our future a lot. I need to get back on the budget… ugh I dread the fighting that is coming.

What you said about buying a house also weighs on my mind a lot. He has a really tough time just taking the trash out once a week, much less home maintenance. We lived in a rent house for the first two years of marriage so he was responsible for mowing grass and trimming hedges, etc. Let’s just say I was completely ashamed to point out house out to people. Those tasks usually fell to me if they were going to be done regularly, and moving to an apartment was a huge relief. Being responsible for a house scares me and I’ve told him this. He days he’s gotten much better with time management since the early years, which is true. But “much better” than terrible still isn’t good, if you know what I mean.
Still, the cons of living in this tiny apartment are really starting to accumulate. I really want to get onto the ground floor and have another bedroom.

 

[Xantippe]

Wow that’s much more drastic than I was thinking. Thanks, it helps to consider that I have that option. Makes me feel less trapped. I have considered going into that line of work especially now that my children are getting older and my medical problems may prevent me from having any more. Sounds like a good option.
I still don’t know about separate bank accounts, this is one area I fell we should get together on instead of just avoiding the issue. I currently have a separate account that I use for a side business I do, and he doesn’t touch it although he has access. It’s really only used for the business that funds it and if I ever want a coffee or something.
I am going to think and pray about this.

Ideally, you’d be working together on a budget and he would be sticking to a budget.

That might actually be a lever to use once you have a bigger income coming in–that you want to have joint finances and plan spending together, but that that isn’t feasible unless he can budget with you and then keep his promises about spending. I would err in the direction of generosity in framing the budget and giving him a lot of say, but then hold him to it. A monthly budget is a an agreement between spouses. If he needs more money for A, he needs to agree to cut down on B. (By the way, your husband is probably a good candidate for an envelope system for spending money.) Or if last month’s budget isn’t working for him, do it differently next month.

Make a** fair **budget that you can both live with. Your husband does not get to have all the fun and free time in your family.

As your kids get older and their needs start getting more expensive, this is going to become an ever more pressing issue–in the future, it’s going to not just be his fun versus your fun, but also his fun versus the kids’ needs (and fun). That’s going to be even harder to stomach.

This is a really good time to fix this.

Good luck!

 

[guiltycatholic]

Right.

He says she can’t have any time off because they don’t have the money. I doubt that a lot, given the spending patterns the OP describes, but it would make that a lot harder for him to say if she were bringing in a solid income.

Sad to say, a lot of women find that their husbands are more respectful when the wives are working. (That describes one of my close relatives.)

1ke is right, I feel like if no progress has been made in 5 years, I’d be stupid to think that waiting longer will help. And I also think you’re right, xantippe. A lot of problems would be solved if I just got my own career. His mom always worked and I think his view is that’s how it should be. But I’m afraid a lot of new problems would be created too. My mother took the route of working harder and longer to pick up my dad’s slack, and she just grew exhausted and bitter from it. Yes, she paid for the things we needed and we got a lot because of her, but the price was total resentment and a broken marriage. I’m basically terrified of making the same mistake. Yes he holds it over my head a little bit that he makes all the money, and part of me would love to knock that chip off his shoulder. But I don’t see how I would not end up bitter and resentful that in the end, I said fine I’ll go ahead and do more so you can do less. Pretty sure he would relax even more if he saw me taking more initiative.

 

[Xantippe]

I will check out those books and definitely try the 60 hours idea first. I think that’s a very doable place to start and maybe it will let him see I’m serious before I take more drastic measures.
Honestly, if the situation was reversed I might do the same thing. It’s just plain easier. While considering buying a house, he actually told me to look for places about an hour away from his new job location so he can “have time to wind down from work” before coming home! I found a great house about 10 minutes from his new location (this is the place where they are supposedly going to transfer him when he gets the long awaited promotion) but he said he doesn’t want to live so near his job. Have you ever heard of such a thing?
As the spender, he has had some aha moments. But it’s not enough to motivate long term change. Old habits die hard and it’s especially difficult for him because he’s just not a planner. He helps me live in the now so it’s great, but obviously it affects our future a lot. I need to get back on the budget… ugh I dread the fighting that is coming.

What you said about buying a house also weighs on my mind a lot. He has a really tough time just taking the trash out once a week, much less home maintenance. We lived in a rent house for the first two years of marriage so he was responsible for mowing grass and trimming hedges, etc. Let’s just say I was completely ashamed to point out house out to people. Those tasks usually fell to me if they were going to be done regularly, and moving to an apartment was a huge relief. Being responsible for a house scares me and I’ve told him this. He days he’s gotten much better with time management since the early years, which is true. But “much better” than terrible still isn’t good, if you know what I mean.
Still, the cons of living in this tiny apartment are really starting to accumulate. I really want to get onto the ground floor and have another bedroom.

1. Yeah, start with simple and doable.
2. Oh my goodness about the commute plan!!!

I know some people like their commutes, but for the average person, long commutes are very bad for health and family life. Plus, in the case of any family emergency, it could make a crisis much worse.

1. Again, he sounds like a great candidate for an envelope system.
2. By the way, a lightbulb just went on and I realized that your husband sounds a lot like the guy in this piece who had undiagnosed adult ADHD:

adhdrollercoaster.org/tools-and-strategies/chapter-4-its-only-money-honey/

See what you think.

That woman’s husband was magically transformed once he went on ADHD medication.

1. With regard to housing, it sounds like getting a ground floor apartment would be a major improvement in quality of life for you. I know a third bedroom will probably make things a lot more expensive, but in your current situation, a house could push you over the edge. I wonder if there’s an apartment complex with a playground? Or a unit with a slightly better floor plan?

Best wishes!

 

[Xantippe]

1ke is right, I feel like if no progress has been made in 5 years, I’d be stupid to think that waiting longer will help. And I also think you’re right, xantippe. A lot of problems would be solved if I just got my own career. His mom always worked and I think his view is that’s how it should be. But I’m afraid a lot of new problems would be created too. My mother took the route of working harder and longer to pick up my dad’s slack, and she just grew exhausted and bitter from it. Yes, she paid for the things we needed and we got a lot because of her, but the price was total resentment and a broken marriage. I’m basically terrified of making the same mistake. Yes he holds it over my head a little bit that he makes all the money, and part of me would love to knock that chip off his shoulder. But I don’t see how I would not end up bitter and resentful that in the end, I said fine I’ll go ahead and do more so you can do less. Pretty sure he would relax even more if he saw me taking more initiative.

Well, he’s not going to do less around the house, is he? So I wouldn’t worry about that part.

I think you’re headed toward (or already in) resentment and bitterness right now, so working couldn’t possibly hurt, especially if you use some of the money for counseling and household help.

When you get your first check, I strongly suggest hiring a monthly housecleaner.

Best wishes!

 

[Katherine438]

Well, he’s not going to do less around the house, is he? So I wouldn’t worry about that part.

I think you’re headed toward (or already in) resentment and bitterness right now, so working couldn’t possibly hurt, especially if you use some of the money for counseling and household help.

When you get your first check, I strongly suggest hiring a monthly housecleaner.

Best wishes!

Question … who is watching the children while she is working? Child care does not come cheap. Is she skilled enough to make enough money that it would be worth working and paying for child care, not to mention a housecleaner?

 

[Xantippe]

Question … who is watching the children while she is working? Child care does not come cheap. Is she skilled enough to make enough money that it would be worth working and paying for child care, not to mention a housecleaner?

From what she’s said, it sounds like she is.

Plus, with any luck, older kid goes to public school soon and the childcare costs should be a lot smaller.

OP, before you do your next move, be very careful about getting school stuff all figured out.

And about his preferred 1-hour commute–I was just remembering the fuel cost issue. Remember a few years back when gas was over $4 a gallon? People were talking about spending $400 and $500 a month on gasoline, even with fairly moderate commutes. It seemed to go on forever. That could happen again. Even now, it wouldn’t be fun to pay for. If he mentions that again, do the math for him.

 

[bmaj]

…
It’s terrible… I have less and less respect for him all the time. I know I should respect him but I’m straining to find things I respect about him. When I do find some things, it’s like they just don’t make up for all the rest. I’d like to have a man I’m proud of but instead I feel like I married a kid. Someone tell me something other than “see a counselor” - you might have guessed - we can’t afford that!

Catholic Charities can usually offer some free counseling for situations like this - either with your husband or without. I would highly recommend calling an office in your area! They should be able to give you the names of available counselors and the procedure to follow. You might also want to mention how you’re feeling to your Priest - either in a meeting or in the confessional. A caring Priest can be an amazing resource!

I’m very sorry to hear what you’re going through, and I pray things improve real soon for you and all the family.

 

[Xantippe]

Come to think of it, your husband’s preferred commute cost is roughly equivalent to the cost of counseling.



And counseling doesn’t take 12 hours a week or make your car wear out faster.

 

[Irishmom2]

Consider buying a condo as a compromise. Most of the outside, if not all, is taken care of.

I really do think that you going to work is a strong option. Either he changes how he behaves, or the kids are going in daycare at least part time, and you are going to work. Tell him that is your decision. And then, do it.

Even if you only broke even with the kids in daycare, for **you, ** it think it would help you keep your sanity.

 

[Eliza10]

“you have to praise him” and “he works so hard” and “you have to show him you appreciate him”

There’s a phrase we use in TX for that- it’s in the refrain of the Cotton Eyed Joe… “y’all say what?” B…S…

This man-child thing of playing video games all night, binging on TV while eating junk food, going out with the guys after work-- it’s an epidemic in our narcissistic culture. It’s a **real **problem. These men literally do not see themselves as parents or partners.

I am really baffled by all the advice here to praise him and “understand” his behavior. His behavior is 100% unacceptable.

I am totally with you here.

 

[guiltycatholic]

Love this! More very practical solutions for me. I don’t like that I have to have the responsibility for holding him to the budget but I guess that’s just something I need to accept already. I can set reminders in my phone and stuff so I don’t have to try to remember everything. Thanks for this response, it makes me feel like this is manageable.

Ideally, you’d be working together on a budget and he would be sticking to a budget.

That might actually be a lever to use once you have a bigger income coming in–that you want to have joint finances and plan spending together, but that that isn’t feasible unless he can budget with you and then keep his promises about spending. I would err in the direction of generosity in framing the budget and giving him a lot of say, but then hold him to it. A monthly budget is a an agreement between spouses. If he needs more money for A, he needs to agree to cut down on B. (By the way, your husband is probably a good candidate for an envelope system for spending money.) Or if last month’s budget isn’t working for him, do it differently next month.

Make a** fair **budget that you can both live with. Your husband does not get to have all the fun and free time in your family.

As your kids get older and their needs start getting more expensive, this is going to become an ever more pressing issue–in the future, it’s going to not just be his fun versus your fun, but also his fun versus the kids’ needs (and fun). That’s going to be even harder to stomach.

This is a really good time to fix this.

Good luck!

 

[guiltycatholic]

From what she’s said, it sounds like she is.

Plus, with any luck, older kid goes to public school soon and the childcare costs should be a lot smaller.

OP, before you do your next move, be very careful about getting school stuff all figured out.

And about his preferred 1-hour commute–I was just remembering the fuel cost issue. Remember a few years back when gas was over $4 a gallon? People were talking about spending $400 and $500 a month on gasoline, even with fairly moderate commutes. It seemed to go on forever. That could happen again. Even now, it wouldn’t be fun to pay for. If he mentions that again, do the math for him.

I honestly hadn’t even thought about working until I read all these answers - my possible career would be in court reporting/captioning. All of the talk on here made me look into it again since I haven’t looked into it since about 10 years ago when I was in school for it. The average income is $40,000, so less than I thought. Not sure if that would justify daycare, I’ll have to check rates around here. But that work could be done from home at least partially.

The plan has been to home school and I’m a little worried about that and how it would impact all this. It would mean more time involved with the kids, more work and responsibility for me. But i do think it would be best for them and I know sacrifices are required in good parenting. With home school I would get to decide how much time we spend home or or on field trips or exploring, to a certain extent. In some ways it sounds like fun.

Yesterday my husband let me know that he might be able to get a position in a different state. There may be better schools in that area that we would be ok sending them to. Honestly probably not though since Catholic culture is so counter culture these days and I really want to raise my kids in a Catholic way.

Y’all have all given me a lot of great suggestions, new ideas, and new perspective. I will be discussing the number of hours in exchange for childcare solution with him as soon as I can formulate the best way to present it to him. I will continue to look for positives and try to be more respectful of him. I’m going to plan fun times so we can lighten up a little, and I’m going to buckle back down on the budget. And I am seriously going to dust off my old steno machine and brush up! It was my dream job for so long and just thinking about it makes me excited!

Thank you all!

 

[Xantippe]

Love this! More very practical solutions for me. I don’t like that I have to have the responsibility for holding him to the budget but I guess that’s just something I need to accept already. I can set reminders in my phone and stuff so I don’t have to try to remember everything. Thanks for this response, it makes me feel like this is manageable.

It’s easier said than done, but it’s good that you are hopeful.

I think I’d try to figure out how to start your responses with a yes whenever possible.

Example:

Husband says: I wanna do blah blah expensive thing.

You: Sure, honey! That sounds great! Let’s put that into the budget!/What should we cut out of the budget to make that happen?/I think if we save $50 a month for three months, we can totally do that! Or would you prefer to save $75 for two months?

Make him figure stuff out rather than you figuring it out for him.

I kind of melted down myself a couple years back because of a lack of regular free time. It was a night and day difference once I put Baby Girl in parent’s day out one day a week.

Once you have a little bit of a breather, it will be easier to work on not being angry. Obviously, you have a right to be angry, but it’s not always a constructive emotion. The tone I would encourage you to work on is being very kind, very calm, very firm and very truthful about the situation. Don’t fight! Just explain what you are going to do and do it.

Good luck!

 

[Xantippe]

I honestly hadn’t even thought about working until I read all these answers - my possible career would be in court reporting/captioning. All of the talk on here made me look into it again since I haven’t looked into it since about 10 years ago when I was in school for it. The average income is $40,000, so less than I thought. Not sure if that would justify daycare, I’ll have to check rates around here. But that work could be done from home at least partially.

The plan has been to home school and I’m a little worried about that and how it would impact all this. It would mean more time involved with the kids, more work and responsibility for me. But i do think it would be best for them and I know sacrifices are required in good parenting. With home school I would get to decide how much time we spend home or or on field trips or exploring, to a certain extent. In some ways it sounds like fun.

Yesterday my husband let me know that he might be able to get a position in a different state. There may be better schools in that area that we would be ok sending them to. Honestly probably not though since Catholic culture is so counter culture these days and I really want to raise my kids in a Catholic way.

Y’all have all given me a lot of great suggestions, new ideas, and new perspective. I will be discussing the number of hours in exchange for childcare solution with him as soon as I can formulate the best way to present it to him. I will continue to look for positives and try to be more respectful of him. I’m going to plan fun times so we can lighten up a little, and I’m going to buckle back down on the budget. And I am seriously going to dust off my old steno machine and brush up! It was my dream job for so long and just thinking about it makes me excited!

Thank you all!

1. If you have one child at school and one at home, the math might sound better on the work income.
2. I would not homeschool until you and your husband even things out a little more. With him actively avoiding the family (like the 1-hour commute thing), that would not be very workable long-term.
3. Elementary school is generally OK wherever you are. Middle school is usually terrible, though.

Good luck!

 

[DarkLight]

OP said she feels like she’s married to a high schooler. That, I think, is exactly why a lot of the stuff to try to appease her husband and bring him back is so risky.

A high schooler would rather hang out with his friends than be home with Mom. Why? Because Mom expects him to do his homework and set the table and take all that nasty, heavy responsibility on that he doesn’t want to do. Whereas his friends just want to party and have fun.

And that’s the problem here. Home is always going to be heavier and less fun than going out, so long as his wife and children have expectations of him. Even if those expectations are perfectly reasonable, they’re less fun than going out drinking with his buddies. Now, adults are supposed to realize that they have to take on responsibilities for themselves, without someone nagging them like a teenager to do so. But it looks like he hasn’t.