Marrying in to a Catholic family with an openly gay member

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Hello,
I am a 28 year old Catholic man who has fallen in love and plan to marry the woman of my dreams. She comes from a loving family who identify as Catholic, but her brother no longer attends mass and has been openly gay now for at least 4 years. Because of this, I see a conflict on the horizon when it comes to raising children near her family.
I recently had a conversation with my fiancée about raising our children as strong Catholics, when the subject of her brother came up. She described him as irresponsible right now, but hopes he finally settles down and either “converts” or perhaps commits to “one partner.” She then said that she would be comfortable with him in our children’s lives if either of these scenarios came true.
I disagreed, saying that I am not comfortable with her brother ever bringing his gay partner around while the children are young, out of fear for their innocence and impressionability.
I told her that I always want her brother in our lives, and that I love and respect him, but that I can’t be ok with him bringing that behavior or lifestyle into our household because I feel that would be endorsing it or making it appear normal in the presence of my children.
She was obviously greatly troubled at this, explaining that she knows such a mandate would alienate her brother and breed contempt.
I need help and advice! Am I representing Christ here, or am I being stubborn? This is a complicated issue on many fronts. So I’m asking for help and advice from others who may have similar situations. I would also appreciate any priestly advice on how I should approach this situation in preparing for our marriage, and during our marriage. What can I tell her brother if the time comes that he wants to bring his gay partner over to spend time with my children? How do I explain to her that I love her family, while not accepting her brother’s behavior?

Seeking the truth

-A
 
Wow, tough question.

My first thought is you are being too “unChristian”. What bad things do you expect your possible BIL and friend to be doing in front of your kids. Anything more than if it was a ‘traditional’ relationship? These are not decisions you need to be making now.

There is a very devout and involved family in our parish whose youngest son is gay. There are nieces and nephews in this family and I have seen them all together (including the boyfriend/partner) at family events. In fact, the boyfriend/partner is in RCIA classes now.
 
I want to share some ideas for you to think about:

Although you have the ultimate responsibility (with your wife) of raising your child as you seen fit, would your reaction about exposing your children to certain behaviors be different if the BIL was straight and living with a girl without benefit of marriage? Is it the behavior or the person?

What exactly are the behaviors you are afraid your children will see? PDA – it is okay in your eyes for straight couples to “paw each other” in public?

When you marry someone you marry their family. How does the family feel about this gay relative?

Will this relative be at family celebrations such as Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc? He’s not going to “disappear” from your view because of your feelings. In other words, think and react carefully because this will affect not only your relationship with your future wife and future in-laws.

What if this person decides that he will live a life of chastity as homosexuals are called to do according to the teachings of the CHurch? Will that be good enough for you?***

I advise you to read the catechism about what the church says about the treatment of homosexuals by the Church and use that as your guide.*
 
It would probably help if everyone understood how Catholics got married which is bond to come up. Contrary to popular belief, the Church doesn’t marry couples, they witness the oath swearing and make sure both the bride and the groom are baptized. The only way a man becomes a husband is if a woman whom he has discerned with God to be his wife swears an Oath to God to be his wife and the only way a wife becomes a wife is if the man whom she has discerned with God to be her husband swears an Oath before God to be her husband. Words are still extraordinarily important to God. When God spoke saying things like “I AM” or “Lazarus get up” or “Do this in memory of me” they conveyed serious meaning.
 
a1001nav said:
Hello,
I am a 28 year old Catholic man who has fallen in love and plan to marry the woman of my dreams. She comes from a loving family who identify as Catholic, but her brother no longer attends mass and has been openly gay now for at least 4 years. Because of this, I see a conflict on the horizon when it comes to raising children near her family.
I recently had a conversation with my fiancée about raising our children as strong Catholics, when the subject of her brother came up. She described him as irresponsible right now, but hopes he finally settles down and either “converts” or perhaps commits to “one partner.” She then said that she would be comfortable with him in our children’s lives if either of these scenarios came true.
I disagreed, saying that I am not comfortable with her brother ever bringing his gay partner around while the children are young, out of fear for their innocence and impressionability.
I told her that I always want her brother in our lives, and that I love and respect him, but that I can’t be ok with him bringing that behavior or lifestyle into our household because I feel that would be endorsing it or making it appear normal in the presence of my children.
She was obviously greatly troubled at this, explaining that she knows such a mandate would alienate her brother and breed contempt.
I need help and advice! Am I representing Christ here, or am I being stubborn? This is a complicated issue on many fronts. So I’m asking for help and advice from others who may have similar situations. I would also appreciate any priestly advice on how I should approach this situation in preparing for our marriage, and during our marriage. What can I tell her brother if the time comes that he wants to bring his gay partner over to spend time with my children? How do I explain to her that I love her family, while not accepting her brother’s behavior?

Seeking the truth

-A
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A very difficult question. However, I think you are on the right side of things. Your children should not be exposed to such behavior, and should be kept innocent in their young years.

I think it could possibly be helpful (if possible, I don’t know the exact state of affairs in your family) to speak to your soon-to-be brother-in-law and tell him that, according to your faith, you do not feel comfortable having him show his homosexual attractions to your kids. Tell him that you still care for him deeply as a person, but you wish to protect the innocence of your kids.

It would be useful to make him feel like he is being recruited to be on your side in protecting your kids. However, this will of course be completely useless if he is a militant gay rights activist and insists on being accepted 100%. In that case, you’ll have to warn him that you will not permit him to scar your children’s innocence.
 
You need to remember that Jesus sought out sinners and went to their homes for dinner. He didn’t ban them from His presence or His family/friends’ presence. He treated them with the utmost love, respect and dignity. Jesus would let them know their sins were wrong but that He loved them and accepted them anyway.

In all honesty if my husband and I kept our children away from all of our relatives (both sides of the family) that didn’t live as devout Catholics, our parents and his sister would be the only family that could come around. Homosexuality isn’t a contagious disease. Homosexual individuals cannot help who they are attracted to. They were given their cross to carry…should we beat them up as they struggle down their road to Calvary? Should we condone the sins they commit? No, but they are no worse than the heterosexual couple having sex outside of marriage or the married contracepting couple or the CEO who overpays himself while short changing his employees or any number of other sinners. if we raise our children in bubbles where they are never exposed to real world situations, when they leave our homes they will not know how to deal with temptations. It is all too different, new, exciting and adventurous. We homeschool our kids and we make sure they are in the secular world very often for this very reason. We want them to be part of the world but not of the world. How else can they become little lights of Christ for others to see?
 
7armyrugrats said:
You need to remember that Jesus sought out sinners and went to their homes for dinner. He didn’t ban them from His presence or His family/friends’ presence. He treated them with the utmost love, respect and dignity. Jesus would let them know their sins were wrong but that He loved them and accepted them anyway.

In all honesty if my husband and I kept our children away from all of our relatives (both sides of the family) that didn’t live as devout Catholics, our parents and his sister would be the only family that could come around. Homosexuality isn’t a contagious disease. Homosexual individuals cannot help who they are attracted to. They were given their cross to carry…should we beat them up as they struggle down their road to Calvary? Should we condone the sins they commit? No, but they are no worse than the heterosexual couple having sex outside of marriage or the married contracepting couple or the CEO who overpays himself while short changing his employees or any number of other sinners. if we raise our children in bubbles where they are never exposed to real world situations, when they leave our homes they will not know how to deal with temptations. It is all too different, new, exciting and adventurous. We homeschool our kids and we make sure they are in the secular world very often for this very reason. We want them to be part of the world but not of the world. How else can they become little lights of Christ for others to see?
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This is a good answer to the wrong question.

If you were answering “How should I treat people who are openly “gay” in public?” then your answer would be good.

However, the situation here is that this man and his future wife are having concerns about the innocence of their children, and how to stop their children from being scarred by being exposed to such terrible sexual sin at so young an age.
 
dconklin said:
Wow, tough question.

My first thought is you are being too “unChristian”. What bad things do you expect your possible BIL and friend to be doing in front of your kids. Anything more than if it was a ‘traditional’ relationship? These are not decisions you need to be making now.

There is a very devout and involved family in our parish whose youngest son is gay. There are nieces and nephews in this family and I have seen them all together (including the boyfriend/partner) at family events. In fact, the boyfriend/partner is in RCIA classes now.
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I have Witnessed gay men, stroking each other, kissing, and making overtly, sexual invitations to my son who was only six years old at the time! Pedolphilia is part of the homosexual culture. There is reason for concern. Although most homosexuals have more class then that.

I am glad the people you referenced are attending RCIA classes. Do not assume that means the Church is endorsing the homosexual life style. They would have to lead a chaste life to become a Catholic in good standing. IMO they would need to cease being a “couple” to avoid the near occassion of sin. Still the love of God is the pearl of great price, and worth any sacrafice.

We minimized the amount of time our children were exposed to homosexual example. We also defended our right to raise our children to know what God teaches about it. When others tried to speak to our children with a liberal message, we asked them NOT to impose their personal beliefs on our children, as they differed from what God teaches.

Do be aware that your children will receive copious amounts of pro gay indoctrination in the schools, along with daily visual examples of these relationships. We felt led by God to homeschool our children for many years. This gave us the opportunity to lay a good foundation in their lives.

It is excellent that you are discussing all of your future expectations and desires with your girlfriend. It is a necessary part of discerning if you are a good fit as a married couple. In this way my husband, and I challenged each other to learn, and grow closer to God.
 
This situation seems to be a great big warning sign that she is not so much a “woman of your dreams” as you think. How to raise your children and what you allow their exposure to is extremely important. Differences in this area would surely bleed into others.

I encourage you to pray that God will lead you concerning the relationship. If you seek Him first in all things, you will find that He will either draw you toward or away from your fiancée.
 
SonCatcher said:
This situation seems to be a great big warning sign that she is not so much a “woman of your dreams” as you think. How to raise your children and what you allow their exposure to is extremely important. Differences in this area would surely bleed into others.

I encourage you to pray that God will lead you concerning the relationship. If you seek Him first in all things, you will find that He will either draw you toward or away from your fiancée.
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I have to take issue with the first part, even if I do agree with the second part. Like other posters said, what if the family member was in a friends with benefits situation or living with a girlfriend? Should we just stop being witnesses to Christ and push them away? Or should we act like Christ who told the woman caught in adultery that He did not condemn her?

And a lot of this is all about the public perception. What if the family member was in the closet? What if he was married but ran around with other women behind his wife’s back and no one knew it? The same sin is present, only less visible. The damage to the Mystical Body of Christ is just as bad if the sin is unknown to others as it is if it is known.

As a for instance, my father has had multiple affairs and for quite some time no one knew about it save for him and my mother. Now my wife and I know about it. Should she have not married me because of my father’s indiscretions which were once hidden and now in the open? Am I now not the “man of her dreams”? Should we have to ensure that every member of a family into which we marry is the best example of Christ? Or should we just do all we can to be that example in our own lives and leave the rest to God?
 
Jesus never would have converted anyone if he had refused to be seen in public, and be in private, with people that were sinners.

The “culture wars” are pretty easy to take sides on until you have to deal with them in your own family. It’s much harder on a personal basis.

When I was hungry, you gave me to eat. When I was naked, you clothed me. When I was in prison, you visited me. When I was gay and just wanted to be loved you ostracized me and kept me from my family.

Hmm. That doesn’t seem to fit, does it?
 
Regina_Love said:
I have Witnessed gay men, stroking each other, kissing, and making overtly, sexual invitations to my son who was only six years old at the time! Pedolphilia is part of the homosexual culture. There is reason for concern. Although most homosexuals have more class then that.
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No, pedophilia is not “part of the homosexual culture” any more than it is part of the heterosexual culture, or any other “culture.”

Hopefully you reported the incident to the police/proper authorities.

To the original poster:

What are you concerned about your future children witnessing? Have you discussed this with the future BIL? Seriously most homosexual people beyond the adolescent years are going to respect your wishes about your children, just as any heterosexual people should. If not, deal with the issue regardless of the person’s “sexual preference.”
 
PaulinVA said:
Jesus never would have converted anyone if he had refused to be seen in public, and be in private, with people that were sinners.

The “culture wars” are pretty easy to take sides on until you have to deal with them in your own family. It’s much harder on a personal basis.

When I was hungry, you gave me to eat. When I was naked, you clothed me. When I was in prison, you visited me. When I was gay and just wanted to be loved you ostracized me and kept me from my family.

Hmm. That doesn’t seem to fit, does it?
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Perfectly said. One of my brothers in law does not go to Mass anymore. He’s probably had sex before marriage. Should I love him less? Should I castigate him for his sins? Or should I love him and try to be an example of Christ to him? If he asks questions about his own actions, sure I’ll respond with the truth. But saving that unlikely circumstance, I’ll preach the Truth through action.

I should note that aside from these faults, he’s an extremely upstanding man, I’m proud to have him has a brother and I think our nation should be proud of him as a soldier.
 
I desire to love and respect my future BIL, but I know I have much room to grow in this matter. I pray for God’s grace and ask that you all pray for me as well, to love him with the love of Christ. My fiancée expressed that his personality is currently more along the lines of the radical gay rights activist-type. She also states that he currently feels hostile toward the church because of his lifestyle choices. Please pray for both he and I, and our families!
 
All I can say is good luck on that one. There is no way that you will be able to dictate that your BIL leaves his partner at home for family reunions, holiday dinners, etc. And you can’t expect your wife to stay away from her family gatherings because the brother that she loves very much that you don’t approve of will be there. What do you think that’s going to do to your wife? Not to mention the damage that will cause to her relationship with her parents, siblings, etc.

If you can’t love her and support her relationship with her family rather than hinder it, you should do her the favor of not marrying her.
 
The_Bucket said:
I have to take issue with the first part, even if I do agree with the second part. Like other posters said, what if the family member was in a friends with benefits situation or living with a girlfriend? Should we just stop being witnesses to Christ and push them away? Or should we act like Christ who told the woman caught in adultery that He did not condemn her?

And a lot of this is all about the public perception. What if the family member was in the closet? What if he was married but ran around with other women behind his wife’s back and no one knew it? The same sin is present, only less visible. The damage to the Mystical Body of Christ is just as bad if the sin is unknown to others as it is if it is known.

As a for instance, my father has had multiple affairs and for quite some time no one knew about it save for him and my mother. Now my wife and I know about it. Should she have not married me because of my father’s indiscretions which were once hidden and now in the open? Am I now not the “man of her dreams”? Should we have to ensure that every member of a family into which we marry is the best example of Christ? Or should we just do all we can to be that example in our own lives and leave the rest to God?
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You are reading much further into what I wrote than intended. I was delineating between the OP’s description of his fiancée as the “woman of his dreams” and the OP’s present situation of conflict. That is all.

The dating and engagement period is designed for couples to discern whether they truly would be able to live as a married couple. Since one of the central items for a married couple is how to raise children, the present issue is necessarily one they need to work out before walking down the aisle.
 
My brother is gay and lives with his long-time partner. I don’t shield my kids from them. They’re both terrific guys, business owners, etc. Extremely respectful people. If my brother was not respectful, I might be a tad more protective. As it stands, I just ensure I parent my children. As they get older, I have conversations with them about Uncle Steve and Uncle Jeff appropriate to their level of understanding and ability to filter between their thoughts and their words.

End of the day, the world we live in contains many facets. The more my kids know, understand, and can ask questions about, the better. But it does require vigilance and active parenting.
 
.It’s a touchy subject to bring up to your future wife because blood is thicker than water; that brother will be in your life. If your future wife trusts her brother to be around her kids, then you should also unless you come across some sort of red flag behavior.other than the obvious.

May you have a long and happy marriage…
 
Here’s my advice: don’t post such a serious question to a forum of lay people whom you don’t know. Take it, with your fiancee, to the pastor of the parish you are intending to marry in. “Falling in love” and “woman of your dreams” are both marvelous but they don’t make for a lifelong commitment, especially if there’s an enormous issue between you NOW. It will NOT go away and it will NOT improve, it will get WORSE. Ask your fiancee to go to the pastor for pre-marriage counseling. You might decide that, despite the romantic love and idealism you feel now, the two of you will never be able to properly deal with this situation successfully. Or, you might find that your FRIENDSHIP with her (absolutely essential) is such that you and she can trust one another sufficiently to handle this delicate situation as time progresses.
 
dshix said:
This is a good answer to the wrong question.

If you were answering “How should I treat people who are openly “gay” in public?” then your answer would be good.

However, the situation here is that this man and his future wife are having concerns about the innocence of their children, and how to stop their children from being scarred by being exposed to such terrible sexual sin at so young an age.
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This is how we deal with it IN OUR FAMILIES, not in public. We have family members who are openly gay, living together without being married, contracepting, alcoholics, drug addicts, mentally ill, and just about anything else you can imagine. That’s part of growing up in huge families. My parents, my husband’s parents, some of our cousins, my sister-in-law, my older brother–only “good, holy people” out of the bunch it seems sometimes, but my brother isn’t Catholic either. Our oldest is son is 19, out on his own, a Knight of Columbus, and an extremely devout Catholic. The younger six are doing quite well too. They know it’s ok to love sinners and to pray for them to convert to a life of grace. And they have been blessed with seeing those prayers answered in a few instances too.

But if you do disagree, that’s fine for your family I guess. That’s the beauty of living in a free society. We teach our kids that marriage is sacred and only to be between one man and one woman who are open to life. They know my cousin is “married” to his husband and has adopted a daughter together. It’s not morally ok, but neither is hating them or ostracizing them for it. Besides, that sweet little girl deserves the love of as many people as she can get. All children do. The kids know my sister had her tubes tied. They know that morally that isn’t ok, but do we disown her because she panicked and gave into temptation when life was hard and scary? What about my husband’s family members who live together without being married, or his uncle that left the priesthood to marry a nun–resulting in both being ex-communicated? Or my brother who drank himself to death when he was only 33? Or my husband’s schizophrenic aunt? Or his other aunt that has been married 3 times and currently living with another man? If we hid them from our kids, they would never know a lot of either family. They would not have a reason to pray for the conversion of ALL sinners if it wasn’t so personal to them. They wouldn’t realize that no life is ever truly wasted and everyone serves a purpose here on earth. Life is beautiful with all its twists, turns, canyons and mountains. They’ve seen redemption in my older brother who has been sober for 8 years and devoted his life to Jesus now, and the danger of staying on the other path with my younger brother who waited too long to change. They have seen my husband’s uncle come back to the Church, and many other blessings as well. I wish my family and my husband’s family was full of saints instead of sinners. But God knew what he was doing. As parents we need to help our kids navigate through without falling as well.

No, our families aren’t all terrible. But I have 120 first cousins, and my husband has 113 first cousins so we have had our share of oddballs. I would honestly say that our families aren’t any worse than other families, but when you have so many people you kind of run the entire spectrum of what goes on in society as a whole. Combine that with living in two separate countries and you have a crazy amount of cultural influences as well.
 
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