Marrying in to a Catholic family with an openly gay member

[dshix]

This is how we deal with it IN OUR FAMILIES, not in public. We have family members who are openly gay, living together without being married, contracepting, alcoholics, drug addicts, mentally ill, and just about anything else you can imagine. That’s part of growing up in huge families. My parents, my husband’s parents, some of our cousins, my sister-in-law, my older brother–only “good, holy people” out of the bunch it seems sometimes, but my brother isn’t Catholic either. Our oldest is son is 19, out on his own, a Knight of Columbus, and an extremely devout Catholic. The younger six are doing quite well too. They know it’s ok to love sinners and to pray for them to convert to a life of grace. And they have been blessed with seeing those prayers answered in a few instances too.

But if you do disagree, that’s fine for your family I guess. That’s the beauty of living in a free society. We teach our kids that marriage is sacred and only to be between one man and one woman who are open to life. They know my cousin is “married” to his husband and has adopted a daughter together. It’s not morally ok, but neither is hating them or ostracizing them for it. Besides, that sweet little girl deserves the love of as many people as she can get. All children do. The kids know my sister had her tubes tied. They know that morally that isn’t ok, but do we disown her because she panicked and gave into temptation when life was hard and scary? What about my husband’s family members who live together without being married, or his uncle that left the priesthood to marry a nun–resulting in both being ex-communicated? Or my brother who drank himself to death when he was only 33? Or my husband’s schizophrenic aunt? Or his other aunt that has been married 3 times and currently living with another man? If we hid them from our kids, they would never know a lot of either family. They would not have a reason to pray for the conversion of ALL sinners if it wasn’t so personal to them. They wouldn’t realize that no life is ever truly wasted and everyone serves a purpose here on earth. Life is beautiful with all its twists, turns, canyons and mountains. They’ve seen redemption in my older brother who has been sober for 8 years and devoted his life to Jesus now, and the danger of staying on the other path with my younger brother who waited too long to change. They have seen my husband’s uncle come back to the Church, and many other blessings as well. I wish my family and my husband’s family was full of saints instead of sinners. But God knew what he was doing. As parents we need to help our kids navigate through without falling as well.

No, our families aren’t all terrible. But I have 120 first cousins, and my husband has 113 first cousins so we have had our share of oddballs. I would honestly say that our families aren’t any worse than other families, but when you have so many people you kind of run the entire spectrum of what goes on in society as a whole. Combine that with living in two separate countries and you have a crazy amount of cultural influences as well.

As I said, I didn’t disagree with you, but rather agreed entirely. However, I didn’t think your answer was wholly relevant, which was why I answered.

 

[mommy_k]

Your girlfriends brother is a person first, and gay second.
I doubt he will have sex with his partner in front of relatives, so what is the problem? You can love the person and not the lifestyle. Your kids will not realise this lifestyle until they are much older, and then you can tell your kids about how you feel about the lifestyle. Kids will think they are friends. Your job as a parent is to teach Love and understanding, even when you do not accept someone elses choices.

 

[RedSoxWife]

We’re pretty strict about what we expose our kids to since they’re still really little. However I do have a gay family member and I’ve never thought twice about him being around our kids. I’ve known his partner for years and have never seen any sign of a public display of affection at all. If I didn’t know better I would think they were just good friends.

It would be different if they were engaging in public displays of affection that made us uncomfortable, but that would be true of any couple gay or straight.

I have to be far more worried about another heavy drinking family member whose head is a little addled from past drug use and his antics (or the friends he brings around and their antics) when we’re around family.

Eventually you’ll have to have conversations about these sorts of things and will hopefully explain what’s right and what’s wrong and how we still love people even when they do wrong.

 

[greenchelle]

These are my thoughts though you may disagree:

I’m not sure what you mean about the children being impressionable? You know You cant become gay, you either are or you’re not. Being around others does not change that.

I have a gay uncle and it would grieve me not to have this wonderful man in my life.

I advise you to turn to your scriptures. I cant remember the exact wording but I am sure I read this morning about how we must show mercy & then again let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

If you can prove me wrong feel free, but I cannot think of a single entry where Christ teaches push away, isolate or show hatred to anyone who is gay.

If the issue of multiple partners is the problem, then you must be clear of that when speaking to your partner.

 

[Metropolis]

My Mom’s brother was gay (he is now deceased) and I grew up around him and his partner. They never kissed any more than a peck in the same way I would kiss my Mother or Sister in greetings ect. I really didn’t even quite get that they were a couple until I was older and could understand. In no way did growing up around this suggest to me that it was normal or acceptable to be in a same sex relationship or having same sex relations. In fact I am a bisexual woman in a chaste sacramental marriage to my husband.

When I was old enough my Mom explained to me what gay was and that it wasn’t okay to act on these feelings, but we should still treat gay people with love and respect. Easy as that. I got to be around my family. (My uncle and his partner were wonderful loving men who honestly acted more “Christian” then most Christians I know.) I knew that they were living a sinful lifestyle, but so were my cousins who lived with boyfriends/girlfriends. That didn’t keep me away from them either. I am so glad that my Mom didn’t alienate my family members and that I could have them in my life and I know that my sister feels the same.

 

[Julia_Mae]

What can I tell her brother if the time comes that he wants to bring his gay partner over to spend time with my children? How do I explain to her that I love her family, while not accepting her brother’s behavior?

Sounds to me like you did tell her. What did she tell you? She will be the children’s mother, she also has a say in this. If the brother and future partner can’t come to your home, does that mean Christmas at Grandma’s is out, because he will be there, also?

I think in the op you said that her family “identifies as Catholic.” What does that mean? You are “more Catholic?” You sound to me like you want a way to convince her you are right and you will be the one making these decisions because you are the real Catholic. Maybe I have the wrong impression, but as of now, I think, you’ve sent the ball to her end of the court. I, personally, would call off the engagement if I were her. But I’m not. I suggest listening to Metropolis on this issue.

I suggest in future, if this doesn’t work out, making your version of being Catholic very clear to any one you date as soon as you start to think it’s serious.

 

[LSK]

Wow, tough question.

My first thought is you are being too “unChristian”. What bad things do you expect your possible BIL and friend to be doing in front of your kids. Anything more than if it was a ‘traditional’ relationship? These are not decisions you need to be making now.

There is a very devout and involved family in our parish whose youngest son is gay. There are nieces and nephews in this family and I have seen them all together (including the boyfriend/partner) at family events. In fact, the boyfriend/partner is in RCIA classes now.

If the person you are speaking of and his partner are both very open about being Catholic Out Loud, meaning that they are not engaging in homosexual sexual activity, then you are right.

However, I will say right now that this sounds very UnCatholic to me. How can someone be in RCIA to enter into a Church that teaches, quite rightly, that homosexuality is a grave disorder and that engaging in homosexual sex is a sin unless they accept those teachings?

Something seems very odd about your response.

As to the original question, I understand your fears. The reality is that you, as the man, would have the task of being the spiritual leader of your family. You would need to teach your children that homosexuals are to be loved and cherished because they have been given an especially difficult cross to bear. They have a grave disorder and because of that they cannot marry or engage in sexual activity which can make one very lonely and feel very left out. However, our jobs would be to be their Simons of Cyrene - to help them carry this cross. That is going to be difficult to do if you have a brother-in-law that gets a same-sex partner and behaves as though the two are married.

The really difficult part of all of this is you have to represent The Church and do so with love. I know how difficult that is - I have two homosexual cousins both of whom are in active sexual relationships they refer to as ‘marriages’.

It makes me sad.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

T

No, our families aren’t all terrible.** But I have 120 first cousins, and my husband has 113 first cousins **so we have had our share of oddballs. I would honestly say that our families aren’t any worse than other families, but when you have so many people you kind of run the entire spectrum of what goes on in society as a whole. Combine that with living in two separate countries and you have a crazy amount of cultural influences as well.

:bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

I hope you don’t mind if the next time my hubby complains about how many family members I have, I bring up YOUR family!! Wow! How many siblings in your mother’s and father’s families? I had 7 on one side, 9 on the other. But not all of those went on to have a passel of kids.

 

[boldlygo]

No, pedophilia is not “part of the homosexual culture” any more than it is part of the heterosexual culture, or any other “culture.”

Hopefully you reported the incident to the police/proper authorities.

To the original poster:

What are you concerned about your future children witnessing? Have you discussed this with the future BIL? Seriously most homosexual people beyond the adolescent years are going to respect your wishes about your children, just as any heterosexual people should. If not, deal with the issue regardless of the person’s “sexual preference.”

Approximately 2.2% of the population is homosexual. This 2.2% is responsible for approximately 60% of all child molestation. That’s reason enough to keep children out of harm’s way. Allowing homosexuals to adopt children is an invitation to disaster.

 

[SamH]

No, pedophilia is not “part of the homosexual culture” any more than it is part of the heterosexual culture, or any other “culture.”

Hopefully you reported the incident to the police/proper authorities.

To the original poster:

What are you concerned about your future children witnessing? Have you discussed this with the future BIL? Seriously most homosexual people beyond the adolescent years are going to respect your wishes about your children, just as any heterosexual people should. If not, deal with the issue regardless of the person’s “sexual preference.”

I don’t know what the “homosexual life style” is, but pedophilia is much more common among homosexuals than it is among the general public.

Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

 

[SamH]

:bigyikes::bigyikes::bigyikes:

I hope you don’t mind if the next time my hubby complains about how many family members I have, I bring up YOUR family!! Wow! How many siblings in your mother’s and father’s families? I had 7 on one side, 9 on the other. But not all of those went on to have a passel of kids.

I have over 150 first cousins and my wife only has 80 or so. There were 16 children in my mom’s family and 8 in my dad’s. Twins are very common on both sides.

 

[Metropolis]

Approximately 2.2% of the population is homosexual. This 2.2% is responsible for approximately 60% of all child molestation. That’s reason enough to keep children out of harm’s way. Allowing homosexuals to adopt children is an invitation to disaster.

Where did you get these statistics? You need to cite study or some credible source for me to take these statistics seriously. I know actual people that have been molested, were all by straight men and one was a straight woman.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OP, this is a difficult situation.

A lot depends upon how this gay young man plans to live out his life. So many gay people are militant and in-your-face about it these days. Back in the day, gay people were in the closet and didn’t show physical affection in public, were very circumspect, etc. But these days, it seems that gay people are out to prove something to the rest of the world and you might find that your future BIL is not content to keep his hands completely off his boyfriends.

So you could have that kind of problem much sooner than you would like to. Even if your kids aren’t old enough to talk to about it, they will absorb it with their eyes. Kids assume everything in their environment is normal unless they are told and shown otherwise.

If the future BIL isn’t militant and “out, loud and proud,” doesn’t show physical affection, kiss his boyfriends, etc. then you will have less of a problem, at least at first. But things can change very quickly. What if the boyfriend is a militant and starts working on the future BIL to make out in public?

It’s NOT the same as a heterosexual couple. Sure the sex part is wrong, but homosexual sex is against the natural order and explaining that to children breaks their innocence about life. Surely they are going to have questions before they can truly understand or should hear about homosexuality.

I don’t know what to tell you, OP, I would suggest that you keep talking about this with your fiancee. I hope you can be charitable about it.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Approximately 2.2% of the population is homosexual. This 2.2% is responsible for approximately 60% of all child molestation. That’s reason enough to keep children out of harm’s way. Allowing homosexuals to adopt children is an invitation to disaster.

Did you know that 86% of statistics are made up off the top of someone’s head?

Actually, the gay pedophile stereotype is a myth. And pedophilia certainly isn’t a part of the “gay culture”.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/666571/?i=4&from=/6512871/related

 

[dshix]

Did you know that 86% of statistics are made up off the top of someone’s head?

Oxymoron!!

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Oxymoron!!

1. You have the definition of oxymoron wrong.
2. You completely missed the point of that joke…

 

[dshix]

1. You have the definition of oxymoron wrong.
2. You completely missed the point of that joke…

Heh, you were saying that 86% of all statistics were made off the top of someone’s head, and from the looks of it, you were making up that statistic, off the top of your head!

Whatever, it isn’t like it matters…

 

[SonCatcher]

1. You completely missed the point of that joke…

Hey, I knew that 93% of statistics were spontaneously invented.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Approximately 2.2% of the population is homosexual. This 2.2% is responsible for approximately 60% of all child molestation. .

That’s entirely incorrect.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/666571?dopt=Abstract

Abstract
A random sample of 175 males convicted of sexual assault against children was screened with reference to their adult sexual orientation and the sex of their victims. The sample divided fairly evenly into two groups based on whether they were sexually fixated exclusively on children or had regressed from peer relationships. Female children were victimized nearly twice as often as male children. All regressed offenders, whether their victims were male or female children, were heterosexual in their adult orientation. There were no examples of regression to child victims among peer-oriented, homosexual males. The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male.

However, if you only look at the incidents of adult males (18 and over) having sexual encounters with underage but adolescent males (14-15) then what you say is going to be correct.

If we only use children, that is, pre-adolescents, girls are twice as likely to be victims and in either case, whether the victim is male or female, the offenders self-identify as “heterosexual.” Of course, they also claim the children seduced them and like it. Psychiatrists are beginning to identify pedophilia as it’s own sexual orientation, not that it is natural, but that pedophiles don’t want sex with any adult at all if they can have children, instead.

Your child is in a lot more danger from your kindly Uncle Ernie than from your cousin’s gay partner.

 

[agapewolf]

These are my thoughts though you may disagree:

I’m not sure what you mean about the children being impressionable? You know You cant become gay, you either are or you’re not. Being around others does not change that.

I have a gay uncle and it would grieve me not to have this wonderful man in my life.

I advise you to turn to your scriptures. I cant remember the exact wording but I am sure I read this morning about how we must show mercy & then again let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

If you can prove me wrong feel free, but I cannot think of a single entry where Christ teaches push away, isolate or show hatred to anyone who is gay.

If the issue of multiple partners is the problem, then you must be clear of that when speaking to your partner.

Nope. Dead wrong. Same sex attraction is a disorder, to the varying degrees. Depending on how deep seated the wounds are, where the source is, it possibly can be righted (See theology of the body healing center in Tallahassee FLA). When seen as normalized behavior, then people start buying into this “gay or not” stuff.

By keeping children apart from possibly harmful impressions, normalization, etc, is NOT in any way casing the first stone, or not being merciful, pushing people away.

It IS in scripture to be judging of actions, and to pick your friends.