Mary and her role? (Multi-Merged)

[brb3]

I’m confused because the answers are not the same. One response has been that yes, it is a mandatory for Catholics to pray the mass in common with the congregation and the priest, and therefore, if the mass has prayers or hymns to Mary and the saints, then it is the Catholic duty to pray these prayers in common as “one body”.

Others have said, no. It is not necessary to pray the parts of the mass that refer to Mary and the saints together with the priest and the congregation.

Which one do you believe? Is there a real final answer from a Catholic encyclopedia or somewhere?

We told you already …You need to START WHERE YOU ARE, ACCEPT WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND, PRAY FOR THOSE ITEMS /TEACHINGS YOU DON’T SEE YET …

We learn best by living our faith each day …apparently you have been separated from the Church for some time. It will take you a while to get all your questions answered, so don’t get impatient !

 

[ProdigalSun]

But I have more reservations now than when I started. You say no to praying to saints and Mary but you say yes to mass. The mass has hymns and prayers ‘to’ Mary and the saints.

I’m using the little quotes now on the words pray ‘to’ because someone spanked me about Catholics never pray ‘to’ Mary. But I’ve read my grandfathers prayer books and am smart enough to see that these prayers are for prayers of help and intercessions.

Now people are getting too clever with words.

When I asked do you have to pray the prayers Catholics pray ‘to’ Mary and the saints I’m not confused about the part about asking for the help of the saint. Its true that all the Catholic prayers ‘to’ Mary and the saints are of this kind. Correct?

To Pray is to ask something of someone. It is not part of worship. We worship God alone.

Can you give an example of a prayer to Mary during Mass?

 

[Corki]

Then is it true that Catholics have to pray to saints and Mary to be a Catholic?

Isn’t public prayer personal prayer said in common publicly? I found a quote about how to pray the mass and it is suppose to be prayed from your heart which is a personal private prayer that so happens to be also a prayer said in common publicly

No. A private devotion can be said in a group, publically, but that doesn’t make it part of the public prayer of the Church. When the Church refers to ‘personal’ devotions, those are ones that a person chooses to pray on his/her own initiative based on his/her own spriitual needs. The Mass is still a public prayer even if no one is there but the priest. It is part of the daily life of the Church.

For some reason, he has only a very old missal and will not put it down.

Then that to be a Catholic you must pray to Mary and the saints because you must pray with the priest the prayers of the mass.

Not to be Catholic. But to a non-dissenting, faithful Catholic, you must pray the prayers at Mass and assent to the Church’s teaching.

At Mass, the people pray the following prayer (changed only slightly from the version in your grandfather’s Missal):

I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

If you were to refuse to join in this prayer because you were denying the efficacy of intercessory prayer or the Communion of Saints, you would be a dissenting Catholic, but still a Catholic.

Ok I get it now. Thank you for finally answering in plain talk . I needed to understand the difference between Catholics and Christians because Christians don’t pray to Mary and the saints.

There are some Christians that deny the concept of intercessory prayer. Other Christians, such as Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, include Mary and the Saints in their prayers.

To be a Catholic you have to offer prayers to Mary and the saints. One person on my questions even said they go to a Catholic church without Mary and saints in them and that seemed strange.

I believe that was me. It would be unusual to find a Church without any statues and that would feel very strange to most Catholics. But it’s not a requirement. Our parish was rebuilt after a fire. It was several years after the initial construction that we were able to afford statuary and even now, we have very litte - a statue of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel and one of St. Michael the Archangel.

My grandfathers church has statues of Mary and the saints and so did his house and even his barn.

That sounds wonderful. Where ever he went there were reminders of those who have gone before us into the Kingdom of God.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Please write the first couple sentences of a pray to Mary we would use in Mass. WE will explain it for you,

 

[AmosTown]

And ??? what’s the issue for you?

God has ONE HOLY.FAMILY…all UNITED via HS, baptized into Christ …this includes All Christians, PAST AND PRESENT. We are linked to David, Moses, the Apostles, even your Dad/Granddad ( all Church Triumphant members) via HS !!

Your brethren here say different. They say I don’t have to pray the prayers (of Catholics) to Mary and the saints.

They are trying to trip me up on wordplay. I already know that Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints are prayers for help and intercessions. I’m not that stupid and neither are the people in my bible class. There ain’t just one apologetics class you know.

I’m asking if you have to pray the prayers “to” Mary and the saints prayed in mass that are prayed together as one with the priest and the people in church.

If the answer is yes, then say yes. and if the answer is no then say no. Anything else according to the bible is from the evil one.

 

[KP3243]

Your brethren here say different. They say I don’t have to pray the prayers (of Catholics) to Mary and the saints.

They are trying to trip me up on wordplay. I already know that Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints are prayers for help and intercessions. I’m not that stupid and neither are the people in my bible class. There ain’t just one apologetics class you know.

I’m asking if you have to pray the prayers “to” Mary and the saints prayed in mass that are prayed together as one with the priest and the people in church.

If the answer is yes, then say yes. and if the answer is no then say no. Anything else according to the bible is from the evil one.

Is this prayer to Mary and the Saints you are talking about:
I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have greatly sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;
therefore I ask blessed Mary ever-Virgin,
all the Angels and Saints,
and you, my brothers and sisters,
to pray for me to the Lord our God.

 

[AmosTown]

To Pray is to ask something of someone. It is not part of worship. We worship God alone.

Can you give an example of a prayer to Mary during Mass?

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

 

[Nita]

Are you saying then that it is OK for Catholics to privately not pray those hymns of honor to Mary in mass?

There is certainly no sin in not saying them.
Most times they are not said by anyone because an entrance song is sung instead. (The Entrance Antiphon is recited only when no entrance song is sung.)
Even when there is no song and the Entrance Antiphon is used, many, if not most, people forget to open the missalettes to the proper page (and therefore do not speak the words).

By the way, did you find those words of honor objectionable? If so, why?

I repeat, read the Mass prayers – you can find out for certain whether we pray to Mary and the saints instead of to God…

 

[KP3243]

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

What are you reading?

 

[ProdigalSun]

Your brethren here say different. They say I don’t have to pray the prayers (of Catholics) to Mary and the saints.

They are trying to trip me up on wordplay. I already know that Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints are prayers for help and intercessions. I’m not that stupid and neither are the people in my bible class. There ain’t just one apologetics class you know.

I’m asking if you have to pray the prayers “to” Mary and the saints prayed in mass that are prayed together as one with the priest and the people in church.

If the answer is yes, then say yes. and if the answer is no then say no. Anything else according to the bible is from the evil one.

I quess your true colors are showing here with this post. You are not here for answers but only wish to sew confusion and and troll. We have given you the answer. YES! you have to be apart of the Mass and believe what the Church teaches in order to be Catholic. NO! you do not have to pray to Mary as part of a personal devotion. YES you have to believe what hte Church teaches about Mary & the Communion of saints inorder to be a Catholic in good standing. If you were baptized catholic and confirmed catholic there is nothing you can do to not be catholic anymore than I can stop being human!

Peace to you my friend I will pray to Mary that your heart be softened towards her and that the truth of Christ Holy church on earth will become realized in your heart and mind.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

These are not part of the MASS but personal devotions to the saints. If you wish to know about the mass go to one. They only last about an hour. you will find everything said in mass part of scripture.

Peaceto you brother!

 

[pablope]

Then I can become Catholic if I believe in private that I don’t have to pray the prayers to Mary and the saints in the Mass?

You may have to directly talk to a priest personnaly and explain. We are in a on-line forum and sometimes, answers get crossed.

Are there any Catholic masses that take those parts out since they are not required?

 

[ProdigalSun]

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

AS I told you before these are not part of the MASS. please try to understand what we are telling you. The only part of the Mass where Mary and the saints are mentioned is the part that COrki mentions above!

 

[Corki]

Your brethren here say different. They say I don’t have to pray the prayers (of Catholics) to Mary and the saints.

They are trying to trip me up on wordplay. I already know that Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints are prayers for help and intercessions. I’m not that stupid and neither are the people in my bible class. There ain’t just one apologetics class you know.

I’m asking if you have to pray the prayers “to” Mary and the saints prayed in mass that are prayed together as one with the priest and the people in church.

If the answer is yes, then say yes. and if the answer is no then say no. Anything else according to the bible is from the evil one.

Who is leading this Bible study? Is it a priest? If not, what is his authority to tell you what the Church says?

Here is the text of what we pray at Mass.

old.usccb.org/romanmissal/order-of-mass.pdf

Other than the Confetior, which I posted earlier, there is no other time, in the order of the Mass, when we direct our prayer to Mary. There may be some entrance antiphons that address Mary but we rarely pray them since we usually are singing instead. So, it is wrong to say that there are “many” prayers to Mary at a regular Mass.

If you go to Mass and don’t say the prayers of the Mass, no one is going to come up and kick you out or say you aren’t Catholic anymore. But if you say most of the prayers but skip one of more out of denial of Church teaching, that is a grave issue that you should discuss with your confessor.

As for your Grandfather’s books, older Missals often have a section of personal prayers. Just because it’s in the Missal, doesn’t mean it’s prayed at Mass. The novena prayers aren’t part of Mass either.

 

[KP3243]

Sometimes Catholicism is confusing and patience is virtue God wants us to have. We understand the faith and all the little things that are tied to other things but to someone who doesn’t understand the faith it can be really confusing. If she is wondering about the faith we are obligated to help her understand.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

Do you understand yet? The above is not part of Mass but some type of personal devotion (not required to believe or pray). AS for the Hundreds upon hundreds more I would have to say if they are from the same book are not part of the MASS which we have to participate in on all days of obligation. ie. Sunday or Saturday

 

[Nita]

Are you toying with me? There is a whopping bunch of them.

Martin of Tours

“by the intercession of Martin Thy Bishop and confessor we may be kept from all that is hurtful”
“grant through the intercession of the saints the Sacrements we have celebrated may avail us unto salvation”
Didacus
“be please to grant to us thy humble servants that through the kindly prayers of blessed Didacus we may deserve to be raised to eternal glory in heaven”

and hundreds upon hundreds more

Those are not prayers to Mary and the saints. Give us** the opening line ** of the prayer that identifies who these words are being addressed to. My guess is that it is either “Father”, “Lord God”, “Lord”,…

 

[brb3]

Your brethren here say different. They say I don’t have to pray the prayers (of Catholics) to Mary and the saints.

They are trying to trip me up on wordplay. I already know that Catholic prayers to Mary and the saints are prayers for help and intercessions. I’m not that stupid and neither are the people in my bible class. There ain’t just one apologetics class you know.

I’m asking if you have to pray the prayers “to” Mary and the saints prayed in mass that are prayed together as one with the priest and the people in church.

If the answer is yes, then say yes. and if the answer is no then say no. Anything else according to the bible is from the evil one.

Aahhh…

Let our yes, be yes … a no, be no …

In that case, very plainly its YES …

u need to be able to accept and Pray the Confetior ( Penitential Act ) in full faith to God & Fellowman ( Christian brethren ) …or u are NOT READY to come into the Catholic Church. Read that prayer, pray about it …and when it becomes TRUTH TO YOU, then you are ready, …since that Prayer is GROUND ZERO, ( Sinner’s Prayer) BEDROCK CHURCH DOGMA !!

 

[KP3243]

Does what you are looking for look like something from on here:
liturgialatina.blogspot.com/2012_11_01_archive.html

 

[Corki]

Those are not prayers to Mary and the saints. Give us** the opening line ** of the prayer that identifies who these words are being addressed to. My guess is that it is either “Father”, “Lord God”, “Lord”,…

Bingo! Even in the Confetior, where Mary is addressed directly within the prayer, the prayer itsef begins “I confess to Almighty God…”.