Mary as Immaculate Conception

[Leslie_Polley]

Leslie, do you find this prayer offensive? If so, why?

The Hail Mary.
"Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are those among women and blessed is the fruit of thy woumb Jesus. Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death… Amen.

That was not a prayer that was a greetinng from Elizibeth to Mary…at no time was it a prayer untill you made it a prayer. The Our Father was an example of how to pray said to His Father because the apostles asked him. At no time was the Hail Mary in that catagory…It was a simple greeting. The second half was added bythe church. It is NOT in the Bible. (Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the end of our death…

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Too bad I couldn’t bet money.*

Revelation Chapter 12.

*** 1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

---

War in Heaven
** 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
** 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
** 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
** 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The man child in verse 5 is Christ.*

The only woman mentioned is the Mother of the ‘man child’.*

Her children (‘seed’) are all believers in Christ.*

That was not your question Mr…I wish I could bet money…Your question was to show you where in the bible it shows that Jesus had other siblings…Good grief, it was your question and you cannot even follow that.
Of course revelation is refering to Christ …He is the redeemer Don’t ever play poker, you’;; change the game to bridge in the middle and no one will know what you are talking about…well not bridge, I doubt you could play that, it takes consentration…

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Boy I sure hope you don’t ask anyone for their prayers lest you be called a hypocrite. After all, you don’t need their assistance to get help from Jesus right.

you know, I have never in my life seen so many people take things out of contex in my life. I have said VERY clearly that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father…that is scriptual. You can also have people pray for you IF they pray for you through Jesus…For instance. Dear Lord, I ask that the people here, that are trying so desperatly to tear down what I say see the light in you and there eyes are open from the darkness …in Jesus name I pray Amen. If you do not understand how to pray now, I am so sorry for you and I will pray for you…In the name of Jesus and no other.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Leslie: would it be helpful to you to think of the Catholics as speaking to Mary instead of praying to her?

Sure if they are not asking her for anything, or want anything from God through her.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Interesting formulation. However, I must point out that in the New Testament, phrases like “Word of God” mean the oral proclamation of the Gospel by the Church much more often than they refer to Scripture. For instance, every usage of “Word of God” in the Acts of the Apostles is referencing the kerygma.

I must point out to you that the WORD of GOD is Jesus Christ. He is refered to as the WORD…He was made flesh and dwelt among us…So don’t tell me in the New Testement that it has changed its meaning. It has not. GODS WORD DOES NOT CHANGE. and neither does the Meaning of THE WORD of Jesus.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

Yes… I see, Mary is everyones mother now ! —(Behold thy mother)—

I’m sorry I must have misunderstood the verse…He said this to John, He at no time brought anyone else into it…Oh I see you are adding to the Bible again. Sorry my bad.

 

[panevino]

I’m sorry I must have misunderstood the verse…He said this to John, He at no time brought anyone else into it…Oh I see you are adding to the Bible again. Sorry my bad.

do you accept that. Keys are only given to Peter

in mat16:19 And I will give unto thee(singular) the keys of the kingdom of heaven…
Don’t want to get into debate abot keys. But I assume u interperet mat16:19 as all Christians? Apologies if I’m wrong.

In gen enminity(spelling?) is placed b/w serpent and her seed.
Her seed… ?
Is that all humans? After eve incl non Christians?
Is it all believers in god?
Is it Jesus?
is it all Christians by Jesus?

Jesus is high priest of his church and king
Mary is his mother
jesus says to his disciple (essentially his last words on the cross B4 “thirst” and “it is finished”) behold thy mother

in rev 12 woman Gives birth ( will multiply sorrow/increase not introduce) has emnimity (spell) With dragon/serpent and dragon goes after remnant of her seed “those that follow Jesus”

I understand u don’t buy above but… Mother is based on more than what he says on cross.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I’m sorry I must have misunderstood the verse…He said this to John, He at no time brought anyone else into it…Oh I see you are adding to the Bible again. Sorry my bad.

John already had a mother, so why did John say, “Woman, behold your son”?

Because John represents the Church, the rest of us, who have been entrusted to her loving care.

 

[TEPO]

I have said VERY clearly that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father…that is scriptual.

Which scripture says that I must pray through only Jesus?

I ask because -I like to pray to St. Michael the Archangel sometimes to: “by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.”

Is this a against he Word of God?

 

[Randy_Carson]

you know, I have never in my life seen so many people take things out of contex in my life. I have said VERY clearly that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father…that is scriptual. You can also have people pray for you IF they pray for you through Jesus…For instance. Dear Lord, I ask that the people here, that are trying so desperatly to tear down what I say see the light in you and there eyes are open from the darkness …in Jesus name I pray Amen. If you do not understand how to pray now, I am so sorry for you and I will pray for you…In the name of Jesus and no other.

We can also ask other people to pray for us like this:
Hail, Mary, full of grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women
and blessed is the fruit of they womb, Jesus.

Holy Mary, Mother of God,
Pray for us sinners now and in the hour of our death.

In the first part, I simply quoted scripture. In the second part, I asked Mary to pray for all of us (not just myself). So, I interceded for you by asking Mary to intercede for all of us. She’ll take my request, adding her own, straight to Jesus.

No problems with any of that, right?

 

[TEPO]

I know for a fact that Saints do live in Heaven and that they can be called upon. according to the Bible --(Matthew 17:1-9, Mark 9:2-8, Luke 9:28-36), Jesus became “radient” and spoke with Moses and Elijah who had come down with God from heaven. It became clear that Jesus was “above” them in rank, and that Saints still do the work of God even after their life on earth.

Mary the Virgin Mother is “Queen of Heaven” and her duty is to look after Gods chosen race here on earth. She was without sin, and we pray the rosary in her honor, so that she will intercede for us with Jesus. We ask her for things like the end of abortion (the killing of innocent children), and be it Gods will, He will grant our requests.

The Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is worshipped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

 

[marymol]

In this season when we celebrate God’s goodness in taking on human nature , which He did by asking /praying / inviting The Woman , inorder to redeem all of sin /hatred infested humanity …and that hatred often starts / comes through the mother realm …after all , the serpent’s voice / word had been taken in , by both Adam and Eve …

'In Jesus Name ’ we often hear …does not that pharse has lot more depth to it …true, believing in His Name , is tremendous grace indeed but that grace and trust can be better … such as , how He did / would do such and such …being of one mind and heart with Him…and this is The Lord , who asked for / took in , the flesh and blood , of The Mother …her love and prayers , like other children …and He wants us too to become like children …with the help of a Mother …for the human heart needs same , to trust in The Father better … and when that trust is broken , there is division and confusion …the mother hatred comes out …as suspicion or fear of The Church …lack of trust , in God’s goodness , in sharing His very self, in The Sacraments …His telling us , we are precious, human nature is precious to Him …the evil one had not wanted us to belive that and its enemy , The Woman is whom our Lord chose, to show us otherwise … and when these truths are resisted, would it not be good to have a little caution…as to , in whose name is it …

Peace !

 

[panevino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Polley
Then why do you pray to her? The Bible never instructed you to…the only example of prayer was given by Jesus in the Our Father.

Psalms includes quite a few other examples of prayer incl

psalm 148:1Praise the Lord from the heavens,
praise him in the heights above. 2Praise him, all his angels,
praise him, all his heavenly hosts. 3Praise him, sun and moon,
praise him, all you shining stars. 4Praise him, you highest heavens
and you waters above the skies. 5Let them praise the name of the Lord,
for he commanded and they were created. 6He set them in place for ever and ever;
he gave a decree that will never pass away. 7Praise the Lord from the earth…

The above prayer addresses the angels and the hosts and asks them to praise the lord.
It is not done as worship of the Angels/hosts…

asking x to pray for us does not always equal worship of x.

asking mary to pray for us is not worship of mary.
just as Simon was not worshipping Peter when he asked Peter to pray for him.
acts 8:24Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”

was the richman worshiping lazarus/abraham when he asked them to warn his brothers on earth? no

Luke 16:27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father’s house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

 

[Des]

you know, I have never in my life seen so many people take things out of contex in my life. I have said VERY clearly that you MUST pray through ONLY jesus to get to the Father…that is scriptual.

And that verse is where exactly?

Praying means to ask or request.You’re making it to be a synonym for worship which isn’t Biblical at all. I suggest you stop adding to the Word of God.

“Joshua said unto Achan, My son, give, I pray thee, glory to the LORD God of Israel” (Joshua 7:19)

“Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee” (Genesis 13:8)

"Saul drew near to Samuel in the gate, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer’s house is. (1 Samuel 9:18)

You can also have people pray for you IF they pray for you through Jesus…For instance. Dear Lord, I ask that the people here, that are trying so desperatly to tear down what I say see the light in you and there eyes are open from the darkness …in Jesus name I pray Amen. If you do not understand how to pray now, I am so sorry for you and I will pray for you…In the name of Jesus and no other.

And where does this conflict with what the Saints in Heaven do after we request (pray) their help from God?

 

[adriancombe]

That was not your question Mr…I wish I could bet money…Your question was to show you where in the bible it shows that Jesus had other siblings…Good grief, it was your question and you cannot even follow that.
Of course revelation is refering to Christ …He is the redeemer Don’t ever play poker, you’;; change the game to bridge in the middle and no one will know what you are talking about…well not bridge, I doubt you could play that, it takes consentration…

Incorrect. Post #62. Here it is:

“There is only one verse in Scripture which specifies Mary’s other children (and I bet you can’t find it).”

Feel free to check it if you like. It is obviously you, not I, who are having trouble remembering.

I’m not sure you should be poking fun at others’ concentration - and not only because its uncharitable. Note the lack of ‘s’ in concentration. If you are unable to spell, and don’t have access to orthographic software, perhaps you can ask a friend to check your spelling for you.

 

[adriancombe]

I must point out to you that the WORD of GOD is Jesus Christ. He is refered to as the WORD…He was made flesh and dwelt among us…So don’t tell me in the New Testement that it has changed its meaning. It has not. GODS WORD DOES NOT CHANGE. and neither does the Meaning of THE WORD of Jesus.

You are confusing the issue, but I assume you didn’t mean to.

Christ Himself is a third meaning of the term ‘Word of God’. I was referrring to the other two. Does this make sense to you?

 

[adriancombe]

Sure if they are not asking her for anything, or want anything from God through her.

So all the verses in Scripture that show Christians praying for others…these are wrong according to you?

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

I’m sorry I must have misunderstood the verse…He said this to John, He at no time brought anyone else into it…Oh I see you are adding to the Bible again. Sorry my bad.

Not adding its interpretation, St John is never named in the Gospel. John 19 says the “beloved disciple,” and what Christian is not a “beloved disciple”? Revelation 12 says Jesus has brethren, those who keep the commandments (the offspring of the Woman)

What is adding to the bible is you saying we cannot ask the saints in heaven to pray for us.

 

[Leslie_Polley]

do you accept that. Keys are only given to Peter

in mat16:19 And I will give unto thee(singular) the keys of the kingdom of heaven…
Don’t want to get into debate abot keys. But I assume u interperet mat16:19 as all Christians? Apologies if I’m wrong.

In gen enminity(spelling?) is placed b/w serpent and her seed.
Her seed… ?
Is that all humans? After eve incl non Christians?
Is it all believers in god?
Is it Jesus?
is it all Christians by Jesus?

Jesus is high priest of his church and king
Mary is his mother
jesus says to his disciple (essentially his last words on the cross B4 “thirst” and “it is finished”) behold thy mother

in rev 12 woman Gives birth ( will multiply sorrow/increase not introduce) has emnimity (spell) With dragon/serpent and dragon goes after remnant of her seed “those that follow Jesus”

I understand u don’t buy above but… Mother is based on more than what he says on cross.

Not by Jesus

 

[Leslie_Polley]

I am not attacking anyone…I was attacked, but I am sure you did not see that. I just answered.