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Eilish_Maura
Guest
There nothing lost by not having a personal devotion to Mary nor is there anything lost by not accepting private revelation.
All we need is in Public Revelation.
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All we need is in Public Revelation.
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Memaw
Guest
Well if your ever in Church while Benediction is going on or the Litany of the Blessed Mother and even in the Mass, we have devotion to the Blessed Mother. If your Catholic, you can’t really escape it . I think Our Lady would have her head in her hands because we are not all in agreement with the Church. Pope John Paul II’s Motto was Totus Tuo, meaning Totally Yours, The Blessed Mother’s.
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Memaw
Guest
If thats true, the why did God Send Mary to Fatima and Lourdes? And try telling that to the people who have received a miracle or answer of prayer because of Mary’s intercession. Like I said before, its your loss.
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JRKH
Guest
Why would I wish to escape it?
You misread, or misunderstood, or ignored my point.
Yes John Paul II had a special devotion to the BVM. What does that have to do with my choice of devotion?
Have I said that I am not in agreement with the Church?
You can say that, In your opinion, we are missing something, but that doesn’t make it so. I am devoted to seeking my Father by following His son in the simplest and most direct faith possible. The center of my prayer life starts: Our Father who art in heaven…
This thread was started to deal with whether it is a good idea to bestow a specific title on Our Lady. It has been proven by this thread to be a bad idea; at least at this time.
Peace
James
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Are you implying that Public Revelation is not complete that one would be truly ‘missing’ something without private revelation?
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ericktiu
Guest
Halo,
Truly, the Catholic Church is very much complete in all devotions: Primary devotion to the Trinity, devotion to the Father, devotion to the Son, devotion to the Holy Spirit.
And, secondary devotion leading to Christ is devotion to the Woman(Mary) clothed with the sun, devotion to Archangel Michael, devotion to St. Francis, devotion to St. Anne Catherine Emmerich, devotion to Padre Pio, etc… so many.
Truly, the family of God is so big.
I’m in a stage of getting to know more about them and have my devotion to all of them. So when I die, I’ll see them and they recognize me.
Truly, the Catholic Church is very much complete in all devotions: Primary devotion to the Trinity, devotion to the Father, devotion to the Son, devotion to the Holy Spirit.
And, secondary devotion leading to Christ is devotion to the Woman(Mary) clothed with the sun, devotion to Archangel Michael, devotion to St. Francis, devotion to St. Anne Catherine Emmerich, devotion to Padre Pio, etc… so many.
Truly, the family of God is so big.
I’m in a stage of getting to know more about them and have my devotion to all of them. So when I die, I’ll see them and they recognize me.
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Paul_the_seaker
Guest
Friend, Public Revelation is complete, but our understanding of grows with the events of our times. Private revelations can shed light on the defined dogmas of the Church. However, Private Revelations cannot be the basis for dogma.
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Church_Militant
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Memaw
Guest
Now did I say that, of course not. but I am saying that God must have had a good reason for sending Mary to us with a message from Heaven. In all the approved apparitions, nothing was ever said that wasn’t in line with Church teaching. In fact Pope Pius XII said, Fatima is a reaffirmation of the Gospels. God gave us these for a reason, are you doubting HIS right to do that. And as long as they have the Church’s approval, we are safe in listening to their message. Whats your problem, maybe you should read, St. Louis de Montfort’s “True Devotion to Mary,” Or read some of the lives of the Saints, who had a great devotion to the Blessed Mother. You could even read the Documents of Vatican II on Mary. The Second Vatican Council was the most Marian Council in the History of the Church. Mary has a very special place in our Salvation History, and always will have. She doesn’t take anything away from Jesus in our hearts, but she does bring us even closer to Him by her Motherly love, and her Holy example. To Jesus Through Mary." I go “straight to Jesus” too but I take HIS Mother with me as my Mother and guide. Mary has many, many beautiful titles, all of them for a reason,and chances are she will have even more before the world ends, just another way of saying I Love You. My favorite is “Refuge of Sinners.”
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
No Catholic is required to believe anything that falls into private revelation therefore no Catholic ‘loses’ or ‘misses out’ regarding them.
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Eilish_Maura
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There is no ‘should’ when it comes to private revelation as no Catholic is required to believe in them.
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Memaw
Guest
Thats what YOU think. You totally misunderstand what the Church is really saying. Approved private revelations are NOT a part of the Public Revelation (that ended with the Apostles.) If you don’t see the difference, you need to study your faith. But to cling to the fact that they are not important is foolish and yes it is your loss. You don’t even know what you are missing and you seem to want to stubbornly hang onto to YOUR OWN OPINION, instead of listening to the Church on these matters. John Paul II is called the Fatima Pope. He had great devotion to Our Lady of Fatima. He thought there was great reason to take Our Lady seriously. He revealed the Third Fatima Secret. And he Beautified the two small children, Jacinta and Francisco. And now it seems the Beautification of Sr. Lucia is very close.
Maybe, just maybe, we would be wise to follow his example…
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MaryJohnZ
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You know I always think “when have we become so minimalistic in our faith!” when people say no Catholic 'is required’to believe in apparitions, is that all it is about ? “What is required?” That sounds like the ultimate legalism.
Its like they are saying “let’s just stick to the requirement list, so we can all just squeek through the door”.
If the Church says that an apparition is worthy of belief and that apparition is prophetic with messages like ‘Jesus wants to establish devotion to my Immaculate heart"’, and ‘when everyone prays the rosary there will be world peace’ I would pay attention for the sake of charity to God and neighbor.
The other attitude seems to be focused on “me”…
The responsibility of a person who knows about Fatima and the message is going to be different from someone who never heard of it as well. “if today you hear His voice, harden not your hearts”
What if the people told Jonah or any of the prophets, “It isn’t necessary or essential to listen to you”…Modern day prophecy is
given to us by God for a reason. It isn’t necessary if you are already living according to God’s word but it enlightens and shows the path back to God when people are going astray.I think we can look around us and see the need for that correction.
Mary
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Eilish_Maura
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Actually I am listening to the Church - and you have provided no proof to the contrary. Instead you have mixed up the issues with official Church stand on private revelation.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=49310&highlight=private+revelation
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=38968&highlight=private+revelation
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=10048&highlight=private+revelation
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Eilish_Maura
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Jonah and the prophets do not fall under private revelation.
The Church teaches us that no Catholic is bound by private revelation (even approved apparitions) - so if sticking with what the Church teaches is minimalistic so be it. One thing is for sure - sticking with the Church on this is never the wrong thing to do.
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Memaw
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I agree 100%, it is not up to us and if it is an impediment to the non-catholics then maybe they need to search their heart for a better attitude towards the Blessed Mother. God would be trying to tell them something.
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Memaw
Guest
But your not “sticking with the Church” on this. Your sticking with your own opinion on what the Church teaches and you won’t even consider the possibility that there may be so much more than what you think. Jonah and the Prophets are NOT part of Public Revelation, but they are still part of Church teaching. Public Revelations started with Jesus and ended with the last Apostle.
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Memaw
Guest
I NEVER said the Church INSISTED we follow approved private revelations. What I DID say was we would be wise to know the difference between private revelations and Public Revelation. Your the one that keeps trying to put them on the same level. And I DID say that God must have given us the approved private revelations for a reason and we would be wise to listen to them. Yes, its up to you but I still say you DO NOT know what you are missing by this stubborn attitude towards them.
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MaryJohnZ
Guest
What do you mean by 'sticking with the church on this is never the wrong thing to do?" Do you mean once the church approves an apparition we should respond to it? I would agree to that.
To clarify what I am saying: I am not saying what the church teaches is minimalistic…I am saying people who stick to that statement as a reason to suppress private revealtion are acting in a minnimalistic way toward God’s gifts.
.I am saying that the church is saying this because not every person will understand or even know about these private revelations, Therefore the church says believing and following them is not essential/ for salvation-- for their sake. But those who do know about them and know they are church approved and “worthy of belief” are not following the Church by dismissing them either.
The church teaches we are responsible to respond to graces given to us by God and I would say private revelations fall under that category. “If today you hear His voice, harden not your hearts” that comes from public revelation because it is in the Bible… Jonah is part of the Bible…the purpose of this is to show us how to react when we have similiar events not included in the bible…
Church approved private rvelations and modern day prophets are like Jonah, Jeremiah, eic… Of course,they wouldn’t be in the Bible because they are occuring in our lives and our times.That doesn’t make them less real. It doesn’t make our responsibility less IF WE KINOW ABOIUT THEM. Again,it is part of the teaching of the church that we are responsible to respond to graces given to us by God…
Public Revelations is sufficient for the essentials for salvation. You can even come to know many of the things in private revelations just by being faithful to public revealtion, but God gives us so much more…even the bible says that it cannot contain everything about Jesus ,and about God…
Too many people misuse what the church is teaching by using that statement that private revelations are not ‘essential’ as an excuse to disregard them and not talk about them.
I feel they are not understanding the purpose of the church’s statement and they are causing harm to people who would benefit from hearing the messages given at those apparitions by suppressing those messages.God has a purpose for sending us these apparitions.
Isn’t there a parable in the bible about the servants who bury their gifts? Apply that to private revelation being suppressed…
And what about the parable in the bible about the vineyard left to the stewards who beat up the messangers sent by the vineyard owner? Apply that to private revealtions and people who suppress the messages…
God Bless, maryJohnZ
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Marsha_Adams
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Yes, the Church does need to define the dogma of Mary as Co-Redemptrix. Why? For the simple reason that it is DIVISIVE.
For years now the Church in first world nations has teetered on the brink of a great schism. Particularly in the U.S. this has been true. Cafeteria Catholics picking and choosing what they want to believe. Liberal priests and nuns who teach what they want rather than what the Church teaches. Pseudo Catholics announcing themselves as “pro-choice” Catholics (as though such a thing could exist). For too long now, we have made nice and ecumenical with Protestants, and swept aside anything they might find offensive. We have played down the role of Mary in Salvation (and if you don’t think she has one, check out the Old Testament). Where is Our Lady’s Soldality? Where is the daily Rosary? How many Catholics don’t even know how to pray the Rosary? (I can name a few adults who fall into that category.)
The time has come to TAKE BACK OUR CHURCH and for our Church to be Catholic once again. If Mary Co-Redemptorix is defined as dogma, it will be divisive. It will cause a great schism and the Church (as it is after every schism) will be smaller and purer and faithful to the magisterium. And to my mind that is a GOOD thing. If defining Mary Co-Remptorix as dogma accomplishes nothing more than that, it will be well worth it.
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