Mary did what she was told

[eucharisteo]

Getting Catholic to read the Catechism is very interesting. It’s like getting them to read their bibles…assuming they have one. What ever the cause of this mind boggling confusion the point is that we clearly need to educate ourselves so that we have the toold necessary to defend our faith. It is arrogant and very insulting to call the Theotokos two Marys. I draw the line there because it is not called for. I say your best approach would be to say that we have different views of the same Mary. But you seem to be trying to insult without coming right out to insult. Maybe I’m the only smart one on here that picks up on it. Maybe not. Maybe you’re the only smart one and think you know more than the Church. Maybe not. Either way stop dancing around playing word games because you’re not fooling anyone. You are insulting Catholics by insulting the Mother of God, Mary… Why would you do such a thing? Do you hate Mary?

And I can tell that you’re not a fundamentalist. I can tell that you’re a trouble maker.

Last edit. I also tend to tick off people first before letting loose on them. It’s part of my fundamentalist ways that I just haven’t dropped yet. But I’m working on it. And you are still playing word games…still not fooling anyone…or did I mean you’re playing the fool…oh well…pick what ever makes you feel good today. And why are you even bothering to play around on a Catholic board if not to taunt us? Ineresting psychological question about someone’s stability…

 

[eucharisteo]

1.Just by you stating there’s only one Mary…the Catholic church’s “Mary” doesn’t make it so.
2.I’m not a fundamental evangelical

Now does that not strike you as being just a bit arrogant, telling someone else what they “mean”.
Please don’t tell me what I mean.
It might be best for you to heed your own words – I quote:

“Please read thoroughly before responding… take time to contemplate too. It’s not as you may seem to believe. There’s an old saying “I know that you beleive you think you understand what you think I said but I’m not sure that you understood what you think I said that you heard”…something like that. It’s called mass confusion.”

…and now you are telling me (us) what gives me (us) the heeby jeebies……amazing.

Let me be very clear. I consider you an enemy of the Church. Anyone that argues with such disdain is surely corrupt and intent on doing harm to her. If you were a man on a campus where I grew up you would understand what the consequences are for insulting someone’s mother… never mind whether or not its truth. I’ve clearly laid out some limits for you to follow because you have gone over the top in misrepresenting Catholic teaching and still continue to fight for teaching your disgusting version of your corrupt understanding. I tried to charitably give …hand you a way out of the mess you created but you insist on going down this dark narrow path that will surely lead to your own self destruction…and I’m not talking biblical… I’ve tried to clearly correct the terminology that you are arrogantly redefining… you have no right. This is Catholic teaching…catholic terms so therefore the Catholic meaning of such terms on a Catholic board are what you are supposed to use… not confuse everyone with your distortions…

Are you related to Jack Chick by any chance… if not you might want to join that ministry in their corrupt methods of trying to destroy the Catholic Church, which won’t happen no matter how much effort you put into it. This is a path of self-destruction and because Mary is the Mother of God all good Christians should stop your corrupt attempt at slandering her. It would be like someone that doesn’t understand Abraham or Moses and slamming them… Whether or not I receive support for my poor attempt at redirecting your language about Mary… is of no consequence to me… I could care less what people think about me. I’m just trying to correct a wrong… a grave injustice to the woman chosen by God to bear a son to be the savior of the world. Tone it down Please! And use the correct language in discussing Mary. I will appeal to the forum moderators and if this doesn’t work the bishop of the diocese in which this forum resides.

And whether or not you are a fundamentalist, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever makes no difference to me. I don’t insult Mohammad… I expect others to respect our spiritual mother.

 

[Leeann]

Furthermore…since I don’t hold too, or believe in what “the Church” says with regards to “their” Mary…how or why would you expect me to answer that question in any other way than I have already answered it , as stated before, to the best of my ability?file:///C:/Users/Mark/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif

Again you’re using insulting terminology to describe the only Mary, Mother of God, Mother of Jesus, that all Christians know and accept.

Well there you go….isn’t it interesting ….I find the terminology that the Catholic church has developed over the centuries, with regards to the mother of my Lord and Savior not only insulting to her, but insulting to Him as well.
And this may come as a shock to you, but not all Christians know and accept the Catholic church’s “Mary”.

Even Muslims believe in the Virgin birth that Mary gave to Jesus - they just don’t believe he was the Son of God.

So the Muslims got it half right – and this is suppose to mean something significant…shouldn’t the part about them NOT believing in Jesus as the Son of God be the important reference point?

You’ve created a separate issue that comes across very insulting…it sounds like you’re insulting on purpose.

I apologize if my direct answers come across as insulting to you or any others reading them…I myself have had to remember when reading other’s posts to me…that sometimes I may take things differently than how they were actually intended, whether due to the person making a quick response and just keying in the info in the most direct way that time allows for…or from my own frame of mind at the time of reading it.

As for me creating a separate issue…I’m assuming you mean the two different Marys…it was the only way - my terminology if you will - of being able to honestly hold a discussion with regards to Mary.

You might as well say our God is different because we understand him differently. How insulting and arrogant and very non-ecumenical. Shouldn’t we be trying to truly understand what is taught rather than putting words in each others mouths?

You mean like in the way you’ve made a veiled attempt of putting words into my mouth in this *very paragraph *above – underlined for your benefit – the really weird thing, is that you then immediately chastise as IF it had been actually said.

 

[Leeann]

*Originally Posted by Leeann *In what way could I possibly be missing out, when I have Jesus as my Lord and Savior…

Because Jesus want you to enter into his Covenant. In Heberew culture, a Covenant is the means by which one enters a family. In this case, we enter into the Family of God.

This is why we call God “Father”, why we call each other brother and sister, because we are adopted children of God. But more than that, this is why the saints in heaven are also our elder brothers and sisters, and why Mary is our spiritual mother. Jesus wants you to have all of this, in fact he DIED so that you may have all of this. Accept his great gift with joy and rejoincing. Being a Christian is not just a about a “personal” relationshiop with Jesus. I have a personal relationship with my mechanic, but that does not make him part of my family! Jesus wants you to be part of the family of God, which includes you, me, our Father, the saints, and our mother Mary.

This is something that has been expressed to me before and I really believe you are sincere Irish Catholic and thank you for going to the trouble of explaining all of it to me again.

Rest assured, that I am truly aware, by His mercy and grace, of being a part of the family of God and it has been because of my very personal relationship with Jesus (as I indicated in the rest of that post) and with no need of “Mary” as my spiritual mother….as the Holy Spirit has from the beginning been my spiritual teacher as scripture has attested would happen. I do believe that Mary and the Apostles and all true believers, all the saints in Christ Jesus, including myself are indeed all a part of His family.

Peace

 

[eucharisteo]

Okay…you asked for it and so did I after this…but let me give you a taste of your own medicine…only with Jesus.

The Protestant or Protesting Catholic Jesus is not the Jesus of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Your Jesus must be a false god and therefore is not the same Jesus. Your God is not the God of Issac, Jacob, or of Moses or Abraham. They would never believe in such a thing as a non-community form of worship. Even non Liturgical. So it it evident that your god is not my GOD. You believe in a false god then.

This is a rough estimate of the line of insult as opposed to thinking you are using. This is far from ecumenical, even if its not your intention. It strikes of real arroagance to come into someone else’s home and slander their mother. Are you going to kick the dog while you’re hear too?

Ahhh no insult meant just trying to communicate… isn’t that what you’re doing?

 

[littarsulum]

This thread seems to be more an argument on wether or not God respects our free will rather than on scripture itself.

Remember at that time women did not have an equal place with men in society and author’s only wrote the most important parts of the story. The didn’t beat around the bush. The very existence of Mary’s response to God’s request in scripture implies that it could’ve been ‘no’.

And anyone who argues that God does not respect every human’s free will is no Christian. Christ came from love, to love, to be loved, and return to love. Love, in its truest essence only occurs when one freely gives it.

 

[Good_Fella]

Have you ever come across this idea from Fundamentalists? Mary was told by God she would carry Jesus and her acquiescence was irrelevant? Mary was not ASKED to bear the Messiah, she was TOLD she would. She simply acknowledged it would be done according to His will, not hers.

Any help? What Scripture should I be looking at here?

“I will bless you abundantly and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants shall take possession of the gates of their enemies, and in your descendants all the nations of the earth shall find blessing – all this because you obeyed my command.”
Genesis 22, 17-18

“Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 45

For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision or uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
Galatians 5, 5-6

*We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in [her]. *
*1 John 4, 16 *

*It is love that I desire, not sacrifice, **and the knowledge of God *rather than holocausts.
Hosea 6, 6

The way that we may be sure that we know Him is to keep His commandments.
1 John 2, 3

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”
John 14, 15

For just as through the disobedience of one person the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one the many will be made righteous.
Romans 5, 19

Whoever keeps his word, the love of God is truly perfected in [her]. This is the way we may know that we are in union with him: whoever claims to abide in him ought to live just as he did.
1 John 2, 5-6

And Mary said, “My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
and my spirit rejoices in God my saviour.”
Luke 1, 46-47

If Mary were merely a passive puppet, then so was the Son of Man. :yup:

PAX :harp:

 

[Leeann]

Let me be very clear. I consider you an enemy of the Church. Anyone that argues with such disdain is surely corrupt and intent on doing harm to her. If you were a man on a campus where I grew up you would understand what the consequences are for insulting someone’s mother… never mind whether or not its truth.

As to me being a man on a campus where you grew up…you would be picking yourself up from the ground, dusting yourself off and making a mental note not to approach me in the unsettled frame of mind you apparently find yourself in….for that matter…I could remain a woman and the result would most likely be the same. (Now doesn’t that sound childish – not to mention un-Christlike)…and as I can ascertain from the contents of your postings, what you have suggested might happen, in reality would never occur, as it is obvious that you are truly filled by the Spirit of God and would never succumb to such a base human reflex….would you?

Having said that…it truly grieves me to see how my postings have hurt you in such a personal manner and I apologize for this being the case.

Now back to your last comment – “never mind whether or not its truth”….do you mean that even if the assumed insults are the truth….you’d still fight against them….fight against the truth??

I’ve clearly laid out some limits for you to follow because you have gone over the top in misrepresenting Catholic teaching and still continue to fight for teaching your disgusting version of your corrupt understanding.

I am responding in like manner - to the over the top misrepresentation that the Catholic church teaching has presented on Mary.

I tried to charitably give …hand you a way out of the mess you created but you insist on going down this dark narrow path that will surely lead to your own self destruction…and I’m not talking biblical… I’ve tried to clearly correct the terminology that you are arrogantly redefining… you have no right. This is Catholic teaching…catholic terms so therefore the Catholic meaning of such terms on a Catholic board are what you are supposed to use… not confuse everyone with your distortions…

There’s been no indication whatsoever, from any other posters that they are confused.
Their responses and questions are for the most part pretty straightforward and shows that they are not confused and have a considerable understanding of what the Catholic church teaches.

Are you related to Jack Chick by any chance… if not you might want to join that ministry in their corrupt methods of trying to destroy the Catholic Church, which won’t happen no matter how much effort you put into it. This is a path of self-destruction and because Mary is the Mother of God all good Christians should stop your corrupt attempt at slandering her.

What do you have in mind….would burning me at a stake be acceptable or perhaps stretching me from all limbs until I recant?

It would be like someone that doesn’t understand Abraham or Moses and slamming them…

In my limited, corrupt and disgusting understanding……the Catholic church hasn’t tried to redefine Abraham or Moses as they have Mary……correct me if I am wrong here please.

Whether or not I receive support for my poor attempt at redirecting your language about Mary… is of no consequence to me… I could care less what people think about me. I’m just trying to correct a wrong… a grave injustice to the woman chosen by God to bear a son to be the savior of the world.

As am I.

Tone it down Please! And use the correct language in discussing Mary. I will appeal to the forum moderators and if this doesn’t work the bishop of the diocese in which this forum resides.

Well, you must take whatever action you feel is appropriate.
If I can’t come in one day……then that’s that.

And whether or not you are a fundamentalist, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever makes no difference to me. I don’t insult Mohammad… I expect others to respect our spiritual mother.

What about expecting others, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever, to respect Jesus Christ as the Son of God……does that not register on your scale of righteous indignation anywhere….or is it all reserved for His mother?

 

[Leeann]

Okay…you asked for it and so did I after this…but let me give you a taste of your own medicine…only with Jesus.

The Protestant or Protesting Catholic Jesus is not the Jesus of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. Your Jesus must be a false god and therefore is not the same Jesus. Your God is not the God of Issac, Jacob, or of Moses or Abraham. They would never believe in such a thing as a non-community form of worship. Even non Liturgical. So it it evident that your god is not my GOD. You believe in a false god then.

This is a rough estimate of the line of insult as opposed to thinking you are using. This is far from ecumenical, even if its not your intention.

What you refer too as “ecumenicalism” is not my intention…I’m only interested in God’s truth, just as Jesus was/is, the apostles and Mary and all true and faithful believers.

It strikes of real arroagance to come into someone else’s home and slander their mother. Are you going to kick the dog while you’re hear too?

Ahhh no insult meant just trying to communicate… isn’t that what you’re doing?

No insult taken.
It is interesting though, how you consider a forum/website to be your home.

 

[eucharisteo]

What you refer too as “ecumenicalism” is not my intention…I’m only interested in God’s truth, just as Jesus was/is, the apostles and Mary and all true and faithful believers.

No insult taken.
It is interesting though, how you consider a forum/website to be your home.

either you are a [edit] very interesting case…I mean patient or just trying to start another fight.
Waiting for your replyopcorn:

 

[eucharisteo]

As to me being a man on a campus where you grew up…you would be picking yourself up from the ground, dusting yourself off and making a mental note not to approach me in the unsettled frame of mind you apparently find yourself in….for that matter…I could remain a woman and the result would most likely be the same. (Now doesn’t that sound childish – not to mention un-Christlike)…and as I can ascertain from the contents of your postings, what you have suggested might happen, in reality would never occur, as it is obvious that you are truly filled by the Spirit of God and would never succumb to such a base human reflex….would you?

Having said that…it truly grieves me to see how my postings have hurt you in such a personal manner and I apologize for this being the case.

Now back to your last comment – “never mind whether or not its truth”….do you mean that even if the assumed insults are the truth….you’d still fight against them….fight against the truth??

I am responding in like manner - to the over the top misrepresentation that the Catholic church teaching has presented on Mary.

There’s been no indication whatsoever, from any other posters that they are confused.
Their responses and questions are for the most part pretty straightforward and shows that they are not confused and have a considerable understanding of what the Catholic church teaches.

What do you have in mind….would burning me at a stake be acceptable or perhaps stretching me from all limbs until I recant?

In my limited, corrupt and disgusting understanding……the Catholic church hasn’t tried to redefine Abraham or Moses as they have Mary……correct me if I am wrong here please.

As am I.

Well, you must take whatever action you feel is appropriate.
If I can’t come in one day……then that’s that.

What about expecting others, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever, to respect Jesus Christ as the Son of God……does that not register on your scale of righteous indignation anywhere….or is it all reserved for His mother?

All of your responses make my point a closed case. Have a nice day.

 

[Leeann]

either you are a [edit] very interesting case…I mean patient or just trying to start another fight.
Waiting for your replyopcorn:

God Bless you eucharisteo!

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

These kinds of threads always fascinate me. It just seems so normal and natural to see Mary as my mother - I often can’t fathom how people can’t accept that

 

[eucharisteo]

God Bless you eucharisteo!

YOU BELIEVE IN GOD? WOW! May
God Bless you too. Now get your feet off the coffee table. Where were you raised? A Barn?

 

[peary]

These kinds of threads always fascinate me. It just seems so normal and natural to see Mary as my mother - I often can’t fathom how people can’t accept that

I’ve always contended that it goes back to what kind of relationship they have with their own mothers. I think it is reflective of that.

 

[eucharisteo]

I’ve always contended that it goes back to what kind of relationship they have with their own mothers. I think it is reflective of that.

I understand what you mean. But not having a very loving caring mother growing up makes it a bit difficult. Maybe that’s why I had a difficult time with Mariology in the beginning.

 

[Good_Fella]

Non-sequitur.

Would you care to explain how we arrive at this sort of argument?

 

[Good_Fella]

I’m sorry, but you’re reading something into the text which is not there in the first place.

“Chaire, kecharitomene.”
Luke 1, 28

It’s there all right. The problem is you fail to see it. It was by the grace of God that Mary heeded the prompting of the Holy Spirit and freely acted in* faith working through love* (Gal 5:6). Our own individual salvation hinges on such faith. God doesn’t have to redeem us, but in His love and mercy He wills that we all freely accept His offer of salvation. Meanwhile Mary’s fiat was pronounced on the human race’s behalf, serving to undo what Eve had help forfeit for us all.

Pax Christu :harp:

 

[koolkate]

mary just followed what was been told her to do to conceive the son of god who is our redeemer… she’s born what the original sin thats why she’s chosen…

 

[Leeann]

YOU BELIEVE IN GOD? WOW!

??

May God Bless you too.

Thank you!