Mary in Islam

[tawheedah]

Thanks.

Can you elaborate on the above miracles by Mohammad? What were their purposes, significance and relevance to prove his prophethood? It would be good to quote from the Quran on where to find them.

We, as Muslims know of these events (Muhammad was given similar signs–splitting the moon, an abundance of milk from a goat which had been unable until then to yield any milk, food multiplied and water for purification.) from the Sunnah. In order for a hadith to be considered sahih/correct, sound, it has to be verified, the chain of narrators can be traced. The study of hadith is a science and the Imams who accepted them, such as Bukhari for example, he wouldn’t take just any hadith from anyone. So we know if something is sahih, a strong hadith than it is something that came from the Prophet saws himself and did indeed occur. (again, I said this is as a MUSLIM). Any hadith that comes from Bukhari or Muslim is very sound.

Now, that being said, as for the splitting of the moon, here is a picture of the moon from NASA:



Here are the ahadith that tells of what happened:
*“The demand of the pagans to the Prophet to show them a miracle. The Prophet showed them the splitting of the moon. Narrated ‘Abdullah bin Massud: During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, ‘Bear witness (to this).’” Bukhari vol.4 book 56 (The Virtues and Merits of the Prophet and his Companions) ch.26 no.830 p.533.

“Narrated Anas that the Meccan people requested Allah’s Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon.” Bukhari vol.4 book 56 (The Virtues and Merits of the Prophet and his Companions) ch.26 no.831 p.533.

“Narrated Ibn ‘Abbas: The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet.” Bukhari vol.4 book 56 (The Virtues and Merits of the Prophet and his Companions) ch.26 no.832 p.534.*

And here is the proof from the Quran:
***Surah 54 Al Qamar (The Moon)
1 The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad SAW to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon).
2 And if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: “This is continuous magic.”
3 They belied (the Verses of Allah, this Quran), and followed their own lusts. And every matter will be settled (according to the kind of deeds (for the doer of good deeds, his deeds will take him to Paradise, and similarly evil deeds will take their doers to Hell)).
4 And indeed there has come to them news (in this Quran) wherein there is (enough warning) to check (them from evil),
5 Perfect wisdom (this Quran), but (the preaching of) warners benefit them not, [M. khan]

1 The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
2 But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, “This is (but) transient magic.”
3 They reject (the warning) and follow their (own) lusts but every matter has its appointed time.
4 There have already come to them Recitals wherein there is (enough) to check (them),
5 Mature wisdom;- but (the preaching of) Warners profits them not. [Yusuf Ali]***

 

[tawheedah]

Do you have any criteria to ascertain that the revelations are form God? In the case of the words in the Quran, what are the criteria for you to believe that they were from Allah? Do you need any witness or evidence to confirm that Mohammad recieved the words from Allah? How can you be sure the words are from Allah?

God bless.

Both the Quran itself and the seerah of Muhammad (biography) disputes and disproves the claims that Muhammad was not a Prophet, the common arguments being that he was a poet, that he was a liar, that he got it from someone else, that he was power hungry, that he was crazy, etc… it’s the same arguments for over 1400 years. These same arguments were brought forth while he was alive, and disputed and disproven then 1400 some years ago.

The proof is in the Quran and the proof is in the Seerah. Books and books have been written to dispute the “orientalists”. If you want to know the basic proofs that prove Muhammad is a prophet and not crazy or a poet or any of the other claims of the orientalists, PLEASE take the time to go and listen to this short lecture.
The Quran and the Orientalists- Yasir Qadhi

or go here to read articles about the Seerah and the Prophethood of Muhammad sallallahu allaihi wasallam.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

And here is the proof from the Quran:
Surah 54 Al Qamar (The Moon)
1 The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad SAW to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon).

The “hour is near” refers to a sign of the Day of Judgment, as with moon turning to blood in the NT, not a miracle from Mohammed. Those Hadith are just them guessing what it means, nonsense.

Example:

Quran 6:31 They indeed are losers who deny their meeting with Allah until, when the Hour cometh on them suddenly, they cry: Alas for us, that we neglected it! They bear upon their backs their burdens. Ah, evil is that which they bear!

Quran 7:187 They ask thee of the (destined) Hour, when will it come to port. Say: Knowledge thereof is with my Lord only. He alone will manifest it at its proper time. It is heavy in the heavens and the earth. It cometh not to you save unawares. They question thee as if thou couldst be well informed thereof. Say: Knowledge thereof is with Allah only, but most of mankind know not.

Quran 43:66 Await they aught save the Hour, that it shall come upon them suddenly, when they know not?

Compare:

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Luke 21:34-35 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 

[Reuben_J]

Both the Quran itself and the seerah of Muhammad (biography) disputes and disproves the claims that Muhammad was not a Prophet, the common arguments being that he was a poet, that he was a liar, that he got it from someone else, that he was power hungry, that he was crazy, etc… it’s the same arguments for over 1400 years. These same arguments were brought forth while he was alive, and disputed and disproven then 1400 some years ago.

The proof is in the Quran and the proof is in the Seerah. Books and books have been written to dispute the “orientalists”. If you want to know the basic proofs that prove Muhammad is a prophet and not crazy or a poet or any of the other claims of the orientalists, PLEASE take the time to go and listen to this short lecture.
The Quran and the Orientalists- Yasir Qadhi

or go here to read articles about the Seerah and the Prophethood of Muhammad sallallahu allaihi wasallam.

Tawheedah, there seems to be a dispute between you and FOA. Any comment?

In this thread I have not yet said that Mohammad was not a prophet. I am asking Muslims to show me, in Muslims understanding, the proof that Mohammad was a prophet and that he was chosen by God. I also would like to know what evidence and witnesses, were there to prove that the Quran was from God.

I would just like to know Muslims argument on these issues.

So far I have gathered these two points (though they somewhat being disputed).

• There is no need for proof that Quran was from God. Quran is a proof by itself (whatever that means). Which means there is no proof (except for the discreetly hint that it was from Allah).
• Mohammad was chosen as God’s prophet because of the miracle of the splitting of the moon.

Is my understanding correct so far?

I have asked for elaboration - Can you elaborate on the above miracles (the splitting of moon) by Mohammad? What were their purposes, significance and relevance to prove his prophethood? It would be good to quote from the Quran on where to find them (you’ve given the verses).

I have asked for criteria - Do you have any criteria to ascertain that the revelations are form God? In the case of the words in the Quran, what are the criteria for you to believe that they were from Allah? Do you need any witness or evidence to confirm that Mohammad recieved the words from Allah? How can you be sure the words are from Allah?

Do you have any answers for these questions? If not, it’s OK, I will accept that too.

Thanks.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

We, as Muslims know of these events (Muhammad was given similar signs–splitting the moon, an abundance of milk from a goat which had been unable until then to yield any milk, food multiplied and water for purification.) from the Sunnah. In order for a hadith to be considered sahih/correct, sound, it has to be verified, the chain of narrators can be traced. The study of hadith is a science and the Imams who accepted them, such as Bukhari for example, he wouldn’t take just any hadith from anyone. So we know if something is sahih, a strong hadith than it is something that came from the Prophet saws himself and did indeed occur. (again, I said this is as a MUSLIM). Any hadith that comes from Bukhari or Muslim is very sound.

Now, that being said, as for the splitting of the moon, here is a picture of the moon from NASA:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0210/rille_apollo10.jpg

Sorry but I don’t accept this. The interpretation of the splitting of the moon is simply too wide a scope; it could be anything. In any case I do not believe that this is the understanding of Mohammad’s audience. They did not have any sattelite photo those days so there was no way they could see the splitting of the moon. Beside what appears in the picture needs not necessarily be a split. If you are taken by this, fine, but I don’t think people with rational discernement will fall for this nonsence.

BTW, do you have any certification by NASA that this is NASA’s photograph?

Thanks.

 

[dolphinlove]

BTW, do you have any certification by NASA that this is NASA’s photograph?

It could be a before person in the pro active ads?

 

[Reuben_J]

It could be a before person in the pro active ads?

I mean it’s so easy for computer to maunfacture images. In any case a NASA statement would be useful. If not then it would seem like a wholesale deliberate prank, and I don’t think that’s nice - to convince people with dishonest tactic like that.

 

[dolphinlove]

I mean it’s so easy for computer to maunfacture images. In any case a NASA statement would be useful. If not then it would seem like a wholesale deliberate prank, and I don’t think that’s nice - to play with people’s belief.

I was only kidding, and didnt intend to insult.
But there have been other pictures as well ive seen that could have been photoshopped as well, its hard to say, unless its from a credible source

 

[Reuben_J]

I was only kidding, and didnt intend to insult.
But there have been other pictures as well ive seen that could have been photoshopped as well, its hard to say, unless its from a credible source

No. I agree with you. I edited my last post to show what I meant!

I don’t like to say this, but tactic like that looks very much like ‘cheap shot’.

 

[dolphinlove]

No. I agree with you. I edited my last post to show what I meant!

I don’t like to say this, but tactic like that looks very much like ‘cheap shot’.

each to their own

 

[tawheedah]

Tawheedah, there seems to be a dispute between you and FOA. Any comment?

In this thread I have not yet said that Mohammad was not a prophet. I am asking Muslims to show me, in Muslims understanding, the proof that Mohammad was a prophet and that he was chosen by God. I also would like to know what evidence and witnesses, were there to prove that the Quran was from God.

I would just like to know Muslims argument on these issues.

So far I have gathered these two points (though they somewhat being disputed).

• There is no need for proof that Quran was from God. Quran is a proof by itself (whatever that means). Which means there is no proof (except for the discreetly hint that it was from Allah).
• Mohammad was chosen as God’s prophet because of the miracle of the splitting of the moon.

Is my understanding correct so far?

I have asked for elaboration - Can you elaborate on the above miracles (the splitting of moon) by Mohammad? What were their purposes, significance and relevance to prove his prophethood? It would be good to quote from the Quran on where to find them (you’ve given the verses).

I have asked for criteria - Do you have any criteria to ascertain that the revelations are form God? In the case of the words in the Quran, what are the criteria for you to believe that they were from Allah? Do you need any witness or evidence to confirm that Mohammad recieved the words from Allah? How can you be sure the words are from Allah?

Do you have any answers for these questions? If not, it’s OK, I will accept that too.

Thanks.

God bless.

Insha Allah (God Willing) I will answer these for you later today or tomorrow, I am going out of state to handle some business today and don’t have time to answer you right now, but I will.

 

[tawheedah]

Sorry but I don’t accept this. The interpretation of the splitting of the moon is simply too wide a scope; it could be anything. In any case I do not believe that this is the understanding of Mohammad’s audience. They did not have any sattelite photo those days so there was no way they could see the splitting of the moon. Beside what appears in the picture needs not necessarily be a split. If you are taken by this, fine, but I don’t think people with rational discernement will fall for this nonsence.

BTW, do you have any certification by NASA that this is NASA’s photograph?

Thanks.

Well I got the picture from NASA’s website… if you right click on it and click properties it shows you the location of the picture… there are articles on NASA’s site about the moon’s rifts etc, and there was a documentary on the History channel about this. This photo is NOT photoshopped. It is from NASA- check the properties, better yet go to their site and search for it- it’s there.

Again, I will answer your other post as soon as I am able to. And as for FOA, a lot of things he’s said I’ve never heard of or don’t quite agree with or understand although I respect Him… I have a teacher who has studied under major sheikhs in Saudi and Egypt and has degrees in Islamic studies. I get my information from her first and foremost. She has never misguided me.

 

[tawheedah]

I mean it’s so easy for computer to maunfacture images. In any case a NASA statement would be useful. If not then it would seem like a wholesale deliberate prank, and I don’t think that’s nice - to convince people with dishonest tactic like that.

search NASA’s website for “moon rille” you’ll find the picture, or you can right click properties…

As for implying I would use a dishonest tactic, I’m offended.

 

[tawheedah]

I was only kidding, and didnt intend to insult.
But there have been other pictures as well ive seen that could have been photoshopped as well, its hard to say, unless its from a credible source

Is NASA a credible source???

 

[Reuben_J]

search NASA’s website for “moon rille” you’ll find the picture, or you can right click properties…

As for implying I would use a dishonest tactic, I’m offended.

I hope you understand why I need to be convinced the picture was authentic. Posting pictures on the internet nowaday is not exactly very realiable, things we do not often take for granted.

In any case I personally feel the picture is irrelevant. What do you mean by the splitting of the moon? Was the moon appeared to be split into two and seen from the earth? Or was there a crack in the moon, like what appears in the picture? In which case it could not be seen from the earth.

So what does it mean by the splitting of the moon? What did the people of Mohammad’s time really see?

 

[hamba2han]

Is NASA a credible source???

From what I read of the posts of many Christians on these boards, even the Bible itself is NOT a credible enough source for them.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Again, I will answer your other post as soon as I am able to. And as for FOA, a lot of things he’s said I’ve never heard of or don’t quite agree with or understand although I respect Him… I have a teacher who has studied under major sheikhs in Saudi and Egypt and has degrees in Islamic studies. I get my information from her first and foremost. She has never misguided me.

How do you explain that elsewhere “the Hour” refers to the Day of Judgment?

Remember Hadith attempting to guess what the Quran is saying are a pick and choose situation for a lot of Muslims, precisely because not all of them are deemed to be valid.

 

[Reuben_J]

search NASA’s website for “moon rille” you’ll find the picture, or you can right click properties…

As for implying I would use a dishonest tactic, I’m offended.

Sorry but I could not get this picture certified by NASA home website.

I got this one though …

404 Not Found

404 Not Found

www.xprize.org

 

[R_not]

Does no one wish to admit that Muslim respect for Mary can never come close to proper Christian veneration of her as the Mother of God?

Basically they really don’t give a rip about Mary except to use her to say ‘Jesus, the Son of Mary’ to make sure they let us know they do not believe that Jesus was the Son of God.

Other than that what muslims care about is death, converting or subjugating (dhimmitude) us.

 

[Booklover]

Reuben J, you asked:* In the first place, how do we know that a person was chosen by Allah? With no witness and no evidence, how do we know that the person was chosen by Allah?*

This is a good question. How does anyone know that a person was chosen by God? How did the people know that Moses, for example, was chosen by God? Or Jesus? Or Muhammad?

The answer is through miracles–signs from God to prove that they were sent by God.

Moses was given signs–before Pharaoh, for example, he threw down his staff which became a snake by the power of God, and then God sent plagues against Egypt, more proofs for Moses, and he parted the Red Sea by the power of God, and the Children of Israel continued to witness miracles in the desert.

Jesus was also given signs–he spoke in the cradle on behalf of his mother, he was able to feed crowds of people, heal people and even bring the dead back to life by the power of God.

Muhammad was given similar signs–splitting the moon, an abundance of milk from a goat which had been unable until then to yield any milk, food multiplied and water for purification.

But all of these signs are gone. They only served as miracles to the people who witnessed them. For anyone else they are nothing more than hearsay–not proof. But the difference is that Muhammad was a prophet for all of mankind, he was the last man chosen by God and therefore there needed to be an enduring miracle–a proof that could be witnessed for generations. And that proof is the Qur’an.

Muhammad performed no miracles! When the unbelievers asked him to perform one, he stated he was only a warner and that the Quran was his only miracle, and as for his being chosen by God, you only have his word for that!

Vickie