Mary in Islam

[Sister_Amy]

Refute anything I stated about Mohammed.

These are not questions. I said ask questions.

Deny he married his best friends child.

Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the daughter of his best friend. There’s nothing wrong with this. He also married his other friend’s daughter, Hafsa bint 'Umar. And his other friend Uthman married his daughter, and then when she died he married another of Muhammad’s daughters. And 'Ali also married one of Muhammad’s daughters. There is in fact nothing unusual about a woman marrying a friend of her father’s. It was very common at the time. Aisha bint Abu Bakr was engaged to someone before Muhammad, actually, so she was not too young for that.

Deny he married his adopted sons wife.

Zaynab bint Jahsh was a widow when she married Zayd bin Harithah at Muhammad’s suggestion. The marriage was very unhappy, though. Notice–it was Muhammad who suggested the match, and Zayd was unhappy (as was Zaynab.) So Zayd divorced her. It was only then that Muhammad married her, and in so doing proved that it was permissible for a man to marry a woman who had been married to his adopted son. You see, it is NOT permissible for a man to marry a woman who has been married to his son. But adoption is not equivalent to a blood relation in this sense, and the marriage was proof of that, and also an honor for Zaynab.

Deny he assassinated people who mocked him.

Haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

Deny he was afraid of the vision or the spirit did not identify itself and his wifes uncle did.

He was deeply troubled after being visited by Gabriel–a proof of his prophethood really, because a false prophet wants to convince you that he’s telling the truth, and wouldn’t admit to being troubled. We know about this story because it was narrated on the authority of… guess who, mentioned above? Aisha. He was so terrified that he came down from the mountain to his wife Khadeejah who comforted him, and she suggested that they visit her (Christian) uncle who verified for Muhammad that he was being called to prophethood.

Deny he robbed caravans to feed his followers.

Abu Sufyan had confiscated all the wealth and property of the Muslims who fled to Medina. He stole it. When their caravan passed Medina on its way to Syria, the Muslims intended to retake their own property–what had been stolen from them.

Deny how the verse for the hijab came about

What’s wrong with how the verse for hijab came about? You know Mary covered her hair–it’s even covered in the picture in the forum banner at the top of the page. What’s the problem?

or that he got 20% of all booty,

Something not allowed to prophets before him.

and that he could marry more women than otehr Moslems?

He did. And even he was told to not marry any more. And all of his marriages served a purpose–some political alliances, some to care for his children, and some to comfort a widow, some to take care of a widow’s children. So definitely good marriages.

 

[Sister_Amy]

How can you actually believe that, when Muslims always resort to violence or threats when “offended”?

Vickie

You lie.

The Qur’an condemns injustice.

16:90 Allah commands justice, the doing of good, and liberality to kith and kin, and He forbids all shameful deeds, and injustice and rebellion: He instructs you, that ye may receive admonition.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**The Qur’an condemns injustice. **

**Is this why Mahometans in Iraq kidnap Christian children, kill them, roast them, and return them to their families on beds of rice?

Is this why Fr. Ragheed and three subdeacons were killed by Mahometans?

Because the Koran condemns injustice?**

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Then you should tell the Arabs not to be so anti-semetic. They then will inform all the other Moslems to stop trying to drive them into the sea and call them apes, pigs and dogs.

Jesus called Jews snakes and children of the devil. And non-Jews dogs. If the shoe fits…

 

[FaithofAbraham]

How can you actually believe that, when Muslims always resort to violence or threats when “offended”?

Vickie

So have Christians.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

http://members.toast.net/rjspina/images/pope-kisses-koran.jpg

The Pope acknowledges the authority of the Quran. Praise Allah.

 

[Verisimilitude]

These are not questions. I said ask questions.

Moslems don’t answer direct questions.

Aisha bint Abu Bakr, the daughter of his best friend. There’s nothing wrong with this. He also married his other friend’s daughter, Hafsa bint 'Umar. And his other friend Uthman married his daughter, and then when she died he married another of Muhammad’s daughters. And 'Ali also married one of Muhammad’s daughters. There is in fact nothing unusual about a woman marrying a friend of her father’s. It was very common at the time. Aisha bint Abu Bakr was engaged to someone before Muhammad, actually, so she was not too young for that.

She was 6 when married and 9 when it was consumated. Even in the 7th century this was unusual and caused controversy. She was a child.

Zaynab bint Jahsh was a widow when she married Zayd bin Harithah at Muhammad’s suggestion. The marriage was very unhappy, though. Notice–it was Muhammad who suggested the match, and Zayd was unhappy (as was Zaynab.) So Zayd divorced her. It was only then that Muhammad married her, and in so doing proved that it was permissible for a man to marry a woman who had been married to his adopted son. You see, it is NOT permissible for a man to marry a woman who has been married to his son. But adoption is not equivalent to a blood relation in this sense, and the marriage was proof of that, and also an honor for Zaynab.

Which is why adoption is very rare in Islam today and shows how hurtfull Mohammed was to what was even Arab traditions. There is no honor forcing their divorce for his own lust. Zaynab flirted with him to better her position. It caused so much of a controversy Mohammed had to get the word from allah to make everyone stop talking about it. Your explaination is rejected.

Haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

Obviously.
Who was Ka’b bin Ashraf, Abu Afak, Asma bint Marwan and how/why did they die?

He was deeply troubled after being visited by Gabriel–a proof of his prophethood really, because a false prophet wants to convince you that he’s telling the truth, and wouldn’t admit to being troubled. We know about this story because it was narrated on the authority of… guess who, mentioned above? Aisha. He was so terrified that he came down from the mountain to his wife Khadeejah who comforted him, and she suggested that they visit her (Christian) uncle who verified for Muhammad that he was being called to prophethood.

His fear is proof? Was Aisha there or did she hear it from…guess who…Mohammed? How long before she was even born did teh first call happen? Children who are the victms of pedophiles might not be the most reliable of witnesses. He was so terrified he first climed the mountain to throw himself off, but the demon appeared to him again then he ran home to be covered by his wife’s skirt. The false prophet has convinced you at least.

Abu Sufyan had confiscated all the wealth and property of the Muslims who fled to Medina. He stole it. When their caravan passed Medina on its way to Syria, the Muslims intended to retake their own property–what had been stolen from them.

Not quite right but even so you still think the killing and theft of goods is permissible. What was the excuse for all the other raids, battles and murders he initated?

What’s wrong with how the verse for hijab came about? You know Mary covered her hair–it’s even covered in the picture in the forum banner at the top of the page. What’s the problem?

Modesty was not uncommon even in Mohammeds day but he went much further- to cover themselves so that only one eye be clear to see the way. He did it because his friends suggested other men were looking at his other wives. Instead of chastising the men he said allah gave the command.

Something not allowed to prophets before him.

You should study your own faith better.

He did. And even he was told to not marry any more. And all of his marriages served a purpose–some political alliances, some to care for his children, and some to comfort a widow, some to take care of a widow’s children. So definitely good marriages.

The car serves the purpose of the bank robber to get away, so what? He created many widows because he started so many fights. Your sense of good is twisted much like the faith you are defending- badly.

You agree that Jesus did not steal, murder, or marry multiple women to include a child and his adopted sons wife, and though you excuse Mohammed doing them, you agree he did all of those things.

A direct question: How does all of that then make Mohammed most like Jesus who was born of the Virgin Mary of which the Quran even speaks about? If you don’t know where Mohammed said that I can quote if for you.

 

[Verisimilitude]

So have Christians.

Shall I post a picture of Mohammed? Would you be angry if I did?

The Pope acknowledges the authority of the Quran. Praise Allah.

John Paul the Great is not acknowledging the authority of the Koran by that kiss. We believe you worship the same God and it is that I think the kiss is for. We also believe you have a very incomplete and misguided view of God because Mohammed is not a prophet and the Quran is not the word of God. The veneer is very thin that we share with respect to God, but even that deserves respect and is used to bridge the gap if at all possible. Sacrifice and humility is very foreign to Moslems. Would your Imam kiss the Bible? Would you?

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Shall I post a picture of Mohammed? Would you be angry if I did?

No I could care less.

John Paul the Great is not acknowledging the authority of the Koran by that kiss. We believe you worship the same God and it is that I think the kiss is for. We also believe you have a very incomplete and misguided view of God because Mohammed is not a prophet and the Quran is not the word of God. The veneer is very thin that we share with respect to God, but even that deserves respect and is used to bridge the gap if at all possible. Sacrifice and humility is very foreign to Moslems. Would your Imam kiss the Bible? Would you?

The Pope is kissing the Quran as a treasure of God sent to man, won’t you follow the Pope and kiss the Quran too?

Here the Pope takes up the sword of jihad against evil doers:



PRAISE ALLAH :bowdown2:

 

[Verisimilitude]

No I could care less.

Then you do not honor your faith if you do not care or are you suggesting the riots in Europe by angry Moslems were wrong to be so upset at cartoons?

The Pope is kissing the Quran as a treasure of God sent to man, won’t you follow the Pope and kiss the Quran too?

See my note above to Sister Amy about Moslems and direct questions.

Here the Pope takes up the sword of jihad against evil doers:

You understand nothing.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Jesus called Jews snakes and children of the devil. And non-Jews dogs. If the shoe fits…

If you are going to reference Scripture then do so appropriately. Christ called the Jewsih leaders vipers for their inconsistant reading of the Law and how they applied it unfairly to the average Jew.

The parable about the little dogs eating scraps from the Maters table referes to His ministry while on Earth.

What shoe are you refering to?

Moslems quote Scripture they reject to prove a point only they see as legitimate. It is clear you at least do not comprehend Scripture very well.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

If you are going to reference Scripture then do so appropriately. Christ called the Jewsih leaders vipers for their inconsistant reading of the Law and how they applied it unfairly to the average Jew.

The parable about the little dogs eating scraps from the Maters table referes to His ministry while on Earth.

What shoe are you refering to?

Moslems quote Scripture they reject to prove a point only they see as legitimate. It is clear you at least do not comprehend Scripture very well.

Vipers refers to Jews being treacherous and corrupt. Dogs refers to pagan Gentiles who eat anything and accept any strange god they find, just like dogs eat feces and trash.

Revelation 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Apes refers to brute animals, pigs are like dogs who eat anything.

There is no difference.

 

[tawheedah]

Sorry but I could not get this picture certified by NASA home website.

I got this one though …
http://lunarlegacy.org/legacy_images/554.jpg

that’s interesting, since you got this picture from

lunarlegacy.org/legacy_images/554.jpg

and not NASA… as for the moon being split into 2, that means exactly that. The moon was split into 2 then put back together… By Allah.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Then you do not honor your faith if you do not care or are you suggesting the riots in Europe by angry Moslems were wrong to be so upset at cartoons?

They are a bunch of hypocrites, they say Jesus is an important prophet too but they never say anything when people make bad cartoons of him. They worship Mohammed like an idol which is what having images of him was supposed to prevent.

 

[dolphinlove]

Is someone threatening you?

Like I said, the Qur’an is the proof. YOU, for example, don’t believe the Qur’an. That’s fine. Neither did the idol worshippers.

But over 1.5 billion people in the world DO believe it, and they believe it proves itself. 1.5 billion people.

But you can calm down… the idol worshippers didn’t accept Muhammad either. You’re not alone.

Its 1.3, another false claim!
And who are you calling idol worshippers may i ask?

 

[Reuben_J]

1. … The only miracle worth really mentioning is the Qur’an. There were other miracles, I can only think of two which are mentioned in the Qur’an–but remember that the Qur’an is not a biography of Muhammad. It’s not a story of his life. Remember how I said that miracles which cannot be witnessed are just hearsay?
2. The purpose of miracles, in general, is to prove that the Messenger is sent by God … Because Muhammad is a Messenger for all generations after him, the miracle must be able to be witnessed by all those generations.
3. The two miracles I can think of which appear in the Qur’an are the splitting of the moon which is mentioned and the night journey to Jerusalem. They are both only mentioned and not described in detail… again, the Qur’an is not a biography of Muhammad and does not give the story of his life. I’m not so sure what’s going on with that photograph someone posted… I mean, it looks fake to me. Muslims believe in the splitting of the moon because it’s mentioned in the Qur’an, although it was a miracle witnessed by a select group of people. I didn’t see it. A doctored photo wouldn’t prove it to me. And I wish Muslims wouldn’t go around touting these things because they detract from the weight of the true message.
4. … The Qur’an has a verse which says what means “If it (i.e., the Qur’an) had been from other than Allah, they would have found therin much discrepancy.” There’s another ayah which says that Allah will preserve it. So basically, if one believes that the Qur’an (any of it) is from Allah, then it follows that all of it is from Allah and it is preserved. …
5. The words of the Qur’an are miraculous in many ways. One, miracles of the unseen, and three categories thereof: miracles of unseen past, unseen present, and unseen future. …

6 and 7. The Qur’an is itself the miracle, it is the evidence.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

I truncate your post due to space reason. Here’s my summary of my understanding of your explanation (please correct me if I misunderstand you):

1.The only miracle worth mentioning is the Quran. There were no details about the other two miracles (splitting of the moon and night journey to Jerusalem) except for their place in the Quran.

2.The revelations (Quran) were from Allah because the Quran says so. There is no other proof to show that they were from Allah.

3.The words of the Qurans are miraculous because it knows the past, the present and the future, things which are not seen by the people at that time.

Obviously your explanation disagrees with other Muslim posters here, but I think yours is the more objective one, so I take yours as speaking for the Muslims here.

While I respect your position on your belief, as a non-Muslim I both find similarity and difference to my religion (Roman Catholic). Just for any future reference and so that you know why I’ll say the thing I say, here are my comments on your explanation:

1. I don’t agree that the Quran is a miracle per se. It is a miracle if you believe it blindly and without question. Your statement in (3) looks like a claim. I’m sure there are factual errors in the Quran. Example – that Mary is the daughter of Aaron. This is gross error as Aaron the brother of Moses lived in an era, millennia of years before Mary. The Quran could not mean that Mary was from the tradition of Aaron, a priest. The explicit mention of Mary the daughter of Aaron obviously to rule out her from any other woman of different father.
2. I would like some proof and evidence to show me that the words of the Quran were from Allah. A witness for example who saw Mohammad taking dictation from Gabriel. The fact you do not have one makes it problematic for me to be convinced that Allah was the source of those words. Your requirement is belief. How could one believe if one is not convinced the words there are the truth?
3. I agree what’s in the Holy Scripture are what there is. No need elaboration or details. However the miracles mentioned fall short of authenticity and relevance to the message of the Quran. You did not explain the relevance so I take it that there is none.

Peace.

 

[Reuben_J]

[53:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[53:2] By the star when it falls,
[53:3] Your companion has neither erred, nor has he gone astray,
[53:4] Nor does he speak out of his own desire.
[53:5] It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God.
[53:6] The Lord of the Mighty Powers has taught

In my opinion these words are not spoken by God himself. It seems a peson was telling / recounting what was spoken by someone else purported as Allah.

If the words of Allah are reported verbatim, then why the indirect sentence, “It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God”? (53:5)

I am reposting this in case anyone want to address it.

53:5, in fact all the verses quoted above, is spoken in a third person, as if a narration of someone else speech. Now if the words of the Quran were dictated by Allah and memorized word for word, then why they are writen in a third person?

If Allah spoke those words, I’d expect something like, “It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by me, Allah or us, (if Allah is plural), Allah”.

 

[Booklover]

If you are going to reference Scripture then do so appropriately. Christ called the Jewsih leaders vipers for their inconsistant reading of the Law and how they applied it unfairly to the average Jew.

The parable about the little dogs eating scraps from the Maters table referes to His ministry while on Earth.

What shoe are you refering to?

Moslems quote Scripture they reject to prove a point only they see as legitimate. It is clear you at least do not comprehend Scripture very well.

All FOA does is interpret scripture to fit his own agenda and make tu quoque remarks!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Its 1.3, another false claim!
And who are you calling idol worshippers may i ask?

Me, because she didn’t care about what I said about Muhammad!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

I truncate your post due to space reason. Here’s my summary of my understanding of your explanation (please correct me if I misunderstand you):

1.The only miracle worth mentioning is the Quran. There were no details about the other two miracles (splitting of the moon and night journey to Jerusalem) except for their place in the Quran.

2.The revelations (Quran) were from Allah because the Quran says so. There is no other proof to show that they were from Allah.

3.The words of the Qurans are miraculous because it knows the past, the present and the future, things which are not seen by the people at that time.

Obviously your explanation disagrees with other Muslim posters here, but I think yours is the more objective one, so I take yours as speaking for the Muslims here.

While I respect your position on your belief, as a non-Muslim I both find similarity and difference to my religion (Roman Catholic). Just for any future reference and so that you know why I’ll say the thing I say, here are my comments on your explanation:

1. I don’t agree that the Quran is a miracle per se. It is a miracle if you believe it blindly and without question. Your statement in (3) looks like a claim. I’m sure there are factual errors in the Quran. Example – that Mary is the daughter of Aaron. This is gross error as Aaron the brother of Moses lived in an era, millennia of years before Mary. The Quran could not mean that Mary was from the tradition of Aaron, a priest. The explicit mention of Mary the daughter of Aaron obviously to rule out her from any other woman of different father.
2. I would like some proof and evidence to show me that the words of the Quran were from Allah. A witness for example who saw Mohammad taking dictation from Gabriel. The fact you do not have one makes it problematic for me to be convinced that Allah was the source of those words. Your requirement is belief. How could one believe if one is not convinced the words there are the truth?
3. I agree what’s in the Holy Scripture are what there is. No need elaboration or details. However the miracles mentioned fall short of authenticity and relevance to the message of the Quran. You did not explain the relevance so I take it that there is none.

Peace.

Reuben, once again I commend you for your charity and patience in dealing with Muslims!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Zaynab bint Jahsh was a widow when she married Zayd bin Harithah at Muhammad’s suggestion. The marriage was very unhappy, though. Notice–it was Muhammad who suggested the match, and Zayd was unhappy (as was Zaynab.) So Zayd divorced her. It was only then that Muhammad married her, and in so doing proved that it was permissible for a man to marry a woman who had been married to his adopted son. You see, it is NOT permissible for a man to marry a woman who has been married to his son. But adoption is not equivalent to a blood relation in this sense, and the marriage was proof of that, and also an honor for Zaynab.

Sex with Daughters in Law

Haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about.

Muhammad’s Dead Poets Society

He was deeply troubled after being visited by Gabriel–a proof of his prophethood really, because a false prophet wants to convince you that he’s telling the truth, and wouldn’t admit to being troubled. We know about this story because it was narrated on the authority of… guess who, mentioned above? Aisha. He was so terrified that he came down from the mountain to his wife Khadeejah who comforted him, and she suggested that they visit her (Christian) uncle who verified for Muhammad that he was being called to prophethood.

Why is that a sign of prophethood? It could merely be signs of mental instability.

]He did. And even he was told to not marry any more. And all of his marriages served a purpose–some political alliances, some to care for his children, and some to comfort a widow, some to take care of a widow’s children. So definitely good marriages.

Nonsense! LUST!

Vickie