Mary in Islam

[Sister_Amy]

Thank you for remembering this. I am fully aware that in Islam Mohammad was a “Chosen”.

What I want to understand is that if Messiah means “Chosen”, and why isnt Mohammad considered a Messiah? Or is he?

No, he isn’t considered a Messiah. The only Messiah in Islam is Jesus Christ. (Christ meaning Messiah.)

Why isn’t he–I’m not aware of any teaching that answers the question, but I can’t see how anyone other than Jesus would be–and given the role of Jesus in Islam, that he will return and rule, I think that makes sense of his title “Messiah.”

 

[R_not]

That is an insult to intelligence, my dear.

Honestly, why on earth would anyone fight his divine Lord???

your excuse is just plain cheesy.

Think about it: Why do muslims oppose polytheists? Your answer will be the same reason why catholics oppose Islam.

Think!

muslims are not taught to think, they are taught to blindly follow the koran, mohammed and allah. (basically mohammed’s words and deeds) this is why, so often, they will tell people who read their koran and hadiths that we cannot do it by ourselves (yeah you can - it is just in no ‘western’ logical order - it is kludgy). Basically what they want to do is make sure to put their spin on it and to keep infidels ignorant of their true motives of wanting to either do one of 3 things to us: kill us, convert us or subjugate us.

 

[R_not]

In Islam, is Mary not regarded as the best woman to ever walk the planet?

Thank you Jonathon, I kept saying that they could give a rip about Mary - but you said it MUCH better than I ever did. They just don’t care about her except to use her name to say, ‘Jesus, son of Mary’ to keep telling us they think he was not the Son of God, but the son of Mary.

 

[R_not]

The word is squeal–that is the correct spelling.

I expected this response, “taqiyya”. I have never heard this teaching in Islam. I have only heard it from Robert Spencer–who is himself a known liar about Islam.

There is no such thing as lying to “smooth over Islam.” If you were threatening to kill me unless I denounced Islam, and I did, then I could ask forgiveness. But you’re not threatening to kill me (although you did compare me to a pig, which is not very polite) so I have no reason to not acknowledge my true beliefs and I present them here as honestly as I can.

If you take a peek in the Questions for Muslim women thread, or maybe this one too, I have offered a number of explanations as to WHY Muslims are allowed to go to war. I never said Islam is “peaceful,” actually–that’s not a word I have used.

When you lie, I will call you out. I do not try to justify what is happening worldwide, and I (as all Muslims shoudl) condemn injustice everywhere. On 9/11 as much as in Gaza or anywhere else. The source of my religion is not a man living in caves in Afghanistan. Never has been, never will be. Once you acknowledge that much, we can move on.

Islam does not view woman as HALF a man, or half the rights, or to be beaten (beaten is the correct word, not beatened) and a woman is NEVER supposed to be punished for rape (See, that is LIE–I said I’d call you out. A woman is not punished for rape in Islam.) I have utterly condemned honor killings–they are not a teaching of Islam, not at all, and they should be condemned. I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO DEFEND THESE EVIL PRACTICES.

The Arabic word, “Takeyya”, means, “to guard against.” The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one’s self or fellow Muslims. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:

“Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.” Surah 3: 28

According to this verse it is acceptable for Muslims to use deceptive tactics. In violation to the teachings of Islam, they can pretend to befriend infidels. In situations where real or imagined harm is perceived they are permitted to display adherence with the ideals of those considered as infidels.

It is important to understand that Muslims take great liberty in expanding the perimeters of circumstances under which they are permitted to lie and to use deceptive tactics. When dealing with Muslim leaders it is essential to keep in mind that they can say or do anything that will get them out of trouble. All the while, they are apt to have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. With this in mind, in matters pertaining to war and international politics, there is a question that we need to ask ourselves. Can Muslim countries be trusted to play it fair and keep their end of the agreements that they sign with non-Muslim nations?

It is imperative that our leaders not be naïve. They must understand that Muslims can use this loophole in their religion to absolve them from any accountability when they revert to deceptive tactics. They can unashamedly do so, as they adhere to Mohammed, the prophet of Islam, who was quoted as saying “War is a deception.” The Allah of Islam is described in the Quran as “the best of deceivers.” Surah 8:30.

I said you will squeal like a pig - I am not comparing you to a pig as muslims compare us infidels to one. I will let that stand since that is how I perceive muslims wailing after they have been caught in their lies.

Muslims never riot or protest their own who are killing worldwide. In fact, their sharia law says it is ok. Their koran says it is ok. Shirk is worse for a muslim than killing infidels - or torturing them, or lying to them, or doing anything to them (rape, beating, etc). You think that when you forget to state that to muslims - muslim and non-muslims do not have the same rights, or status, and that you do not consider them equal to you. muslims do not consider them innocent - that is why it is ok to murder even babies and old people - because muslims forget to state that they think only muslims are innocent. this is why their suicide bombers will go after school buses, buses that are filled with women and children, etc.

I could go on but it gets even more sickening.

Of course you are careful not to defend those ‘evil practices’ because on this website to do so would be to reveal what islam is really all about.

A muslim is allowed to lie – per the koran

jihadwatch.org/archives/019850.php

As for you character assasination of Mr. Spencer - there are imams, ayatollahs, and other notable muslims that are not fit to wipe his behind because they not only preach jihad, but either do it or fund it. And I am talking about your most ‘blessed’ jihad - the violent kind. And as with muslims there are fatwas for his death. Just as there are fatwas against those others who are enlightening us to islam, such as Geert Wilders, Ayan Hirsi Ali, etc. And then the cartoonist. Oh, how many of you massses of ‘moderate’ muslims are trying to stop the riots in Denmark that have been going on for over a week now? Or tried to stop past riots that our news doesn’t report? None of you.

 

[R_not]

The word is squeal–that is the correct spelling.

I expected this response, “taqiyya” or whatever. I have never heard this teaching in Islam. I have only heard it from Robert Spencer–who is himself a known liar about Islam.

What I said is truth and I proved it. There is no such thing as lying to “smooth over Islam.” It’s not allowed. If you were threatening to kill me unless I denounced Islam, and I did, then I could ask forgiveness. But you’re not threatening to kill me (although you did compare me to a pig, which is not very polite) so I have no reason to not acknowledge my true beliefs and I present them here as honestly as I can.

If you take a peek in the Questions for Muslim women thread, or maybe this one too, I have offered a number of explanations as to WHY Muslims are allowed to go to war. I never said Islam is “peaceful,” actually–that’s not a word I have used. I can sincerely explain any ayah in the Qur’an you wish to confront me with–I believe it to be entirely from God, with Wisdom, and for the best of mankind, and a way to establish JUSTICE. What I am offering though, is real explanations, and not the distorted ones you hear on TV or youtube or jihadwatch etc.

When you lie, I will call you out. I do not try to justify what is happening worldwide, and I (as all Muslims shoudl) condemn injustice everywhere. On 9/11 as much as in Gaza or anywhere else. The source of my religion is not a man living in caves in Afghanistan. Never has been, never will be. Once you acknowledge that much, we can move on.

That word taqiyya again. Show me an Islamic source ever using the word taqiyya. Tell me which scholar teaches it.

Islam does not view woman as HALF a man, or half the rights, or to be beaten (beaten is the correct word, not beatened) and a woman is NEVER supposed to be punished for rape (See, that is LIE–I said I’d call you out. A woman is not punished for rape in Islam.) I have utterly condemned honor killings–they are not a teaching of Islam, not at all, and they should be condemned. I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO DEFEND THESE EVIL PRACTICES.

Sorry, but your claims that women are not 1/2 of a man and have 1/2 the rights of a man are not correct. Only in western lands, with Western laws, are you given full rights. Once sharia law kicks in (since that is what muslims work for once their numbers are sufficient in dar al harb (the land of war) then your rights will start lessening.

We are seeing examples of looney muslims practicing their sharia law in our country, and other western countries. Examples are, ‘honor killings’, clitorectomies, beatings, etc.

islam puts the world in two realms - the land of islam (those muslim nations under sharia law) and the land of war (dar al harb - infidel lands). And any land of war that a muslim resides in means that the muslims are in a state of war and it is a-ok to lie.

 

[R_not]

This is what islam is all about. This youtube video might be censored once the muslims find out that it is out there since they do not want people knowing about islam and prefer to send out the jihadists such as ‘sister amy’ who is spreading lies about islam.

youtube.com/watch?v=4pX4y-bd-do&eurl=http://sheikyermami.com/2008/03/01/norway-if-support-for-the-fight-against-ethiopia-is-terror-then-were-all-terrorists/

For some reason we never hear about muslims talking about Mary in islam. Only if we bring it up and then we get a bunch of disinformation from them. The above website shows a video of what islam is all about. and they have no intention of assimilating into our culture. They come here with intent on replacing our laws with their sharia law. And it all starts with innocent sounding demands, such as footbaths, segregated bathrooms (gee, I thought segregagtion ended a few decades back?! This should be totally against the law!), segregated gyms in the Universities, etc. It is happening all over. We hear about them putting their 5 tenets of islam in our children’s history books along with outright lies about their ‘prophet’ and don’t expect the ACLU to stand up for this lack of separation of church and state. They are cowards cowtowing to the wishes of the muslims.

‘sister amy’ said such organizations as the MSA, to name one, is a benign institution in our lands. well, it is NOT! They are on the list of those muslims who start the demands and start weakening us to further assaults to change our ways while they do not.

frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=3D713728-A526-456D-9356-C1A6A380FF80

I have suggested a book, ‘A Never Ending War’, by Michael Cappi and believe me - you will wake up and not like what you read.

 

[Sister_Amy]

R_not, it is not correct to say that Muslims don’t talk about Mary.

Who started this thread? Sister Amy did–who is a Muslim.

What was this thread supposed to be about? Mary, in Islam, as per the title of this thread “Mary in Islam.”

How did this thread start? With a passage in the Qur’an about Mary.

I don’t have anything else to say to you, except that you might be well-advised to click on the link in my signature entitled “Gentle Reminder.”

 

[R_not]

R_not, it is not correct to say that Muslims don’t talk about Mary.

Who started this thread? Sister Amy did–who is a Muslim.

What was this thread supposed to be about? Mary, in Islam, as per the title of this thread “Mary in Islam.”

How did this thread start? With a passage in the Qur’an about Mary.

I don’t have anything else to say to you, except that you might be well-advised to click on the link in my signature entitled “Gentle Reminder.”

Let me say this - when a koran has more about that it wants me and mine dead more than they care about Mary - I will do what I have to do to make sure that is known. You are on a Catholic website talking about Mary and you know exactly what your ‘religion’ is all about - it wants me and mine either dead, converted to islam, or subjugated to muslims (dhimmi).

Why don’t you take your discussions to other muslims who talk about jihad - you know that most blessed kind that mohammed said was the most blessed - that violent kind?

You are here proselytizing and/or trying to convince us that muslims are really one of the other two - to be included among the ‘Abrahamic’ religions. #1. mohammed was a pagan and he wanted to convert the Jews and Christians of his time so he threw in stories that he heard. The reason why all the stories are all screwed up in the koran is because mohammed was illiterate. #2. there is no connection to islam to the other two religions except what is in muslim’s minds. #3. none of the other two go worshiping some black rock, go running around a black rock, or throw stones or run to another black rock.

The kabaa was the temple to mohammed’s old pagan god, allah.

al-ilah was the pagan moon god and the kabaa was his ‘house’, or what we call ‘temple’.

those same pagans that mohammed was of do the same ceremonies as muslims

at one point, in the koran, said to worship al-lat, al-uzza, and marat which are called the ‘daughters of allah’. sura 53:19-20
But now the verses are abrogated (which goes back to my older notes that the koran has two ‘versions’ that are combined in the koran (the book is confusing) because the Medina passages (the violent passages - the newer passages) abrogated the older Meccan passages (the older more peaceful passages).

allah - a high god in a pantheon of deities was worshiped at the kabaa. Only one of many. allah used to be a statue that sat on top of the kabaa. it used to be a ‘moon god’ hence the crescent and star as being the symbol of islam - it takes after mohammed’s old pagan religion worshiping a moon god. Hence this is the reason why all the nouns I use for islam are never capitalized. I do not give pagan gods that respect.

the same pagans practiced the pilgrimage to the hajj, the fast of ramadan, running around the kabaa 7 times, kissing the black stone, shaving the head, animal sacrifices, running up and down 2 hills, throwing stones at the devil, snorting water in and out of the nose, praying several times a day toward Mecca, giving alms, Friday prayers, etc.

mohammed command it - yusuf ali fn 214, pg78
islam adopted the rites, yusuf ali fn 223, pg80

Christians and Jews NEVER used a moon and stars as their symbol - the Arabs did though.

Too bad muslims can’t think more of their own religion as we do ours - it might start changing and not be so violent if a people could think instead of following like robots. With 1400 years of violence and no stop even appearing on the horizon - it only leaves one to conclude the mindless, robotic following of it.

the koran is not the ‘word of god’ - how can a moon god have a word?! But, even if you don’t think it is a moon god - the abrogation in the koran should give you a hint that something is not right. If that god was so smart - why did it change its mind so often? And way too many things were created so mohammed could get his way.

 

[R_not]

R_not, it is not correct to say that Muslims don’t talk about Mary.

Who started this thread? Sister Amy did–who is a Muslim.

What was this thread supposed to be about? Mary, in Islam, as per the title of this thread “Mary in Islam.”

How did this thread start? With a passage in the Qur’an about Mary.

I don’t have anything else to say to you, except that you might be well-advised to click on the link in my signature entitled “Gentle Reminder.”

Go take your videos to your fellow muslims committing chaos, murder and mayhem around this world. Stop worrying about your image to us and FIX IT. All you do is try to tell us how benign muslims are when their example is not the same as their ‘lying’ words. Not one muslim is, or has, stopped the riots/fatwas being issued and the muslims trying to carry them out because of some inane cartoon about mohammed. It is mild compared to the cartoons that muslims make up of us.

so many don’t believe it because they see coy, little muslimettes. But, where those coy, little muslimettes go the jihadists follows behind them. and lately we have been hearing more often than not that the coy, muslimettes are becoming the bombers/murderers themselves - or willing to give up their babies to be bombs, or even to be trained as jihadists at ages younger than 10.

‘No muslim should be killed for killing (a disbeliever).’ Hadith Sahih al-Bukhari, vol1, book3, no. 111

A muslim is allowed to lie, per the koran:
jihadwatch.org/archives/019850.php

training children to be jihadists (this one is disturbing of a child beheading)
jihadwatch.org/archives/016140.php

Australian in Palestine account of children suicide bombershttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b2QhQQpHck&eurl=
peacewithrealism.org/headline/farfur.htm
and the list goes on … do your own web searches - the ‘religion of peace’ breeds psychopath murderers.

If you all that are reading this besides ‘sister amy’ who is worrying that I am exposing her and the image of islam is being tarnished don’t think this never happens here in the USA need to think again. Already mosques in the USA are under investigation due to their teachings. Keep abreast of the current news here, and elsewhere by reading jihadwatch.org on a daily basis. That is what ‘sister mary’ is trying to hide and say that is a lie, etc. Gee, what is a person to believe? What a person says or the actions worldwide? Their koran and what it says which says it is ok to lie in our lands (the land of war) or someone concerned about islam’s image?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I am not worried about anything, here. I am allowed to post here just like you are allowed to post here.

I just came to tell people about Islam. I cannot convince anyone, I know that. But I also know that neither can you convince anyone. Guidance is up to Allah–and whoever He guides nobody can lead astray, and whoever He allows to stray, nobody can guide.

 

[R_not]

I am not worried about anything, here. I am allowed to post here just like you are allowed to post here.

I just came to tell people about Islam. I cannot convince anyone, I know that. But I also know that neither can you convince anyone. Guidance is up to Allah–and whoever He guides nobody can lead astray, and whoever He allows to stray, nobody can guide.

so far you have admitted in a previous post that islam is indeed violent and now that you are here to tell people about islam. This is exactly what I knew you were here for and there is nothing about Mary and islam that is interesting. It is only a way to slither in and try to either convert us or lie that islam is benign.

What you have admitted by your silence is that islam does indeed ok lying in our lands, and that the god allah is mohammed’s pagan moon god that he converted for his use in islam.

 

[dolphinlove]

I am not worried about anything, here. I am allowed to post here just like you are allowed to post here.

I just came to tell people about Islam. I cannot convince anyone, I know that. But I also know that neither can you convince anyone. Guidance is up to Allah–and whoever He guides nobody can lead astray, and whoever He allows to stray, nobody can guide.

Or perhaps Jesus led you here to find the real truth, not Mahammeds made up quran?

 

[R_not]

Or perhaps Jesus led you here to find the real truth, not Mahammeds made up quran?

dolphinlove, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut - sometimes I need to be softened and you have added that. Thanks again.

 

[dolphinlove]

dolphinlove, thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut - sometimes I need to be softened and you have added that. Thanks again.

R_not, its perfectly ok, i know exactly what you mean about needing to be soften, im guilty of going over the top as well, and need to pull my head in every now and again. But i think you do a spectacular and stellar job of defending our church.
God be with you and be at peace.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Or perhaps Jesus led you here to find the real truth, not Mahammeds made up quran?

It was my understanding of Jesus which led me to Islam in the first place.

 

[Sister_Amy]

so far you have admitted in a previous post that islam is indeed violent and now that you are here to tell people about islam. This is exactly what I knew you were here for and there is nothing about Mary and islam that is interesting. It is only a way to slither in and try to either convert us or lie that islam is benign.

What you have admitted by your silence is that islam does indeed ok lying in our lands, and that the god allah is mohammed’s pagan moon god that he converted for his use in islam.

Actually, I decided to put you on my ignore list since I didn’t find most of your posts in the past to be worth responding to. Some people, in case you haven’t noticed, have asked questions about Islam. Some people are sincerely interested in learning. Were they to follow your advice, they would be well-advised to go to the Protestants to learn about the Catholic Church.

AgnosTheist and Booklover had also accused me of this thing which you said earlier, and then pointed out that whatever it is (and I have never heard it taught from ANY Muslim scholar ever in my life) is a Shi’a thing. And I’m Sunni. You can look that up if you missed it. AgnosTheist advised posters to stop accusing me of it based on that alone. So please, stop.

I don’t recall ever saying that “Islam is violent.” Please bring proof if I said that. However, I will say that Islam does ALLOW violence to be used in some very special and restricted cases. It’s not a general rule. A general rule in Islam is “No harm, and no reciprocal harm.” Violence is indeed a weighty thing, an enormity–but some things are worse. I offered an example–fighting the Nazis for their oppression of the Jews. I would hope that should some dictator rise up today and similarly persecute any group of people for any such reason, that the entire world would condemn it in the strongest terms and fight it. BUt it IS happening. It is happening in Israel and it is happening in Chechnya and it is happening in the Sudan. It happened in the Balkans and it happens all over Africa. Islam prohibits injustice and oppression. Violence is ONLY ever allowed as a means to eliminate injustice and oppression.

I am of course here to tell people about Islam. That should be so patently obvious, I’d be surprised if it slipped under your radar. At the same time, telling people about MARY is telling them about Islam. That’s why I started this thread–to tell people what Islam says about Mary. There is plenty about Mary that is interesting–please refer to the original post describing the birth of Mary. You won’t even find that in the Bible!

I have never once mocked God, Jesus, Mary, the Bible, the Pope, or any Catholic doctrine once, not even once, in my stay here. You don’t have to defend against anything, nor do you need to attack Islam. It makes your own faith look very weak, that instead of relying on it and demonstrating it, you are trying to tear my own down.

I hope this is the last post I have to direct at you in particular.

 

[dolphinlove]

It was my understanding of Jesus which led me to Islam in the first place.

Your heart was corrupted, sorry to hear that, but by bringing you here, he is giving you another chance to find out who he truly is,the Son of God. Its never to late.
Best part of it is, noone kill you for leaving Christianity the first time! Jesus loves you and would never dream of you dying for what you believe. On the other hand, if you were to leave Islam, wont there be a bounty on your head? Correct me if im wrong now…

 

[Sister_Amy]

Your heart was corrupted, sorry to hear that,

Do you have the ability to see my heart? And look into the past and see what my heart used to look like? Unless you do, it’s not your place to make a judgment on my heart.

On the other hand, if you were to leave Islam, wont there be a bounty on your head? Correct me if im wrong now…

You said “Correct me if I’m wrong” so I’m correcting you. The answer is no–and people leave Islam all the time. The Qur’an says, as I’m sure you’ve heard, that there is no compulsion in religion. The only way that a penalty can ever be applied for apostasy is in the case of an Islamic state, with an Islamic leadership, where the apostasy rather than a mere change of beliefs is actually an act of treason. It does not apply at all in this day and age, not anywhere in the world. So no.

I stay a Muslim out of my love for God, not out of fear of death.

 

[dolphinlove]

Do you have the ability to see my heart? And look into the past and see what my heart used to look like? Unless you do, it’s not your place to make a judgment on my heart.

Im not judging your heart, im just saying Jesus is leading you home to the church he created, the truth he led us too.

You said “Correct me if I’m wrong” so I’m correcting you. The answer is no–and people leave Islam all the time. The Qur’an says, as I’m sure you’ve heard, that there is no compulsion in religion. The only way that a penalty can ever be applied for apostasy is in the case of an Islamic state, with an Islamic leadership, where the apostasy rather than a mere change of beliefs is actually an act of treason. It does not apply at all in this day and age, not anywhere in the world. So no.

I stay a Muslim out of my love for God, not out of fear of death.

If i say so, you have not correct me, you just made yourself look more incorrect. I can bring up MANY stories about people who have left Islam and have been killed for doing so.
And here is some light reading for you, enjoy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

If i say so, you have not correct me, you just made yourself look more incorrect. I can bring up MANY stories about people who have left Islam and have been killed for doing so.

Of course people are killed for leaving Islam. It just happens to be ILLEGAL. (In Islam, even!)