Mary on the cross?!?

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Sanctus:
This is the prayer associated with the devotion:

Lord Jesus Christ,
Son of the Father,
send now Your Spirit over the earth,
Let the Holy Spirit live
in the hearts of all nations,
that they may be preserved
from degeneration, disaster and war.
May the Lady of All nations,
who once was Mary,
be our Advocate.
Amen ==================================================================================================
Hi Sanctus,Any christian reading this prayer would think Mary has been added to the trinity.If we read 1John 2 vs 1, we see that Jesus Christ has been given the title of Advocate. :confused: God Bless
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SPOKENWORD said:
======================================================Hi Lisa, My point is no one should be portrayed on the the cross of Christ except Christ alone. I,ve seen different images of Mary on the cross and it makes my spirit uncomfortable for I know its not the truth.I dont like false impressions. 😦 God Bless
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Actually I thought Protestants feel no one should be portrayed on the cross hence their empty cross insistance.

RS
 
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rschermer2:
Actually I thought Protestants feel no one should be portrayed on the cross hence their empty cross insistance.

RS
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Hi Rs, Not all are protesting. :confused: God Bless
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Hi Sanctus,Any christian reading this prayer would think Mary has been added to the trinity.If we read 1John 2 vs 1, we see that Jesus Christ has been given the title of Advocate. :confused: God Bless
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1.) The topic of intercessory prayer has been debated over and over on this forum…let’s not beat a dead horse, huh?

2.) 1 John 2 vs 1 deals with the forgivness of sins…the mediator/advocate/intercessor issue has also been debated untill both sides were blue in the face.

3.) It is private revelation thereby non-binding on the Church as a whole

4.) I read that prayer, I am a Christian, and I fail to see how it is adding Mary to the trinity…to suggest that a devotional prayer involving the Blessed Virgin Mary makes someone “un-Christian” is highly insulting. This debate, as you and I both know, is essentially over Sacred Scripture and it’s role with Sared Tradition-another topic that has been hashed out over and over again, it is not the topic this thread was initially started to cover so if you have an issue with the prayer, start a thread about it.
 
Sanctus said:
1.) The topic of intercessory prayer has been debated over and over on this forum…let’s not beat a dead horse, huh?

2.) 1 John 2 vs 1 deals with the forgivness of sins…the mediator/advocate/intercessor issue has also been debated untill both sides were blue in the face.

3.) It is private revelation thereby non-binding on the Church as a whole

4.) I read that prayer, I am a Christian, and I fail to see how it is adding Mary to the trinity…to suggest that a devotional prayer involving the Blessed Virgin Mary makes someone “un-Christian” is highly insulting. This debate, as you and I both know, is essentially over Sacred Scripture and it’s role with Sared Tradition-another topic that has been hashed out over and over again, it is not the topic this thread was initially started to cover so if you have an issue with the prayer, start a thread about it.
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Hi Sanctus, My appoligies,the prayer issue is off topic.Thanks for pointing it out. 😉 God Bless
 
I think this all boils down to the fact that we have far too little information…

It could be St. Wilgefortis, it could be any Saint who was crucified. I don’t think the fact that it “looks” like the Blessed Virgin Mary is enough to trash it as a piece of art…because we just honestly don’t know who it is and to condem something out of ignorance I think is quite closed minded. I’ve made my stab at the issue but untill further information about the image we really don’t know. I’m giving the 20,000 people that attended the event where this picture was taken the benifit of the doubt because I’m guessing there is a rational explanation for this.
 
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Sanctus:
It could be St. Wilgefortis, it could be any Saint who was crucified. I don’t think the fact that it “looks” like the Blessed Virgin Mary is enough to trash it as a piece of art…QUOTE]

Actually, compared to a lot of what passes for “art” in this country, religious or secular, this piece seems very well executed! If it is Our Lady (and I am devoted to our sweet Mother), I think it is unfortunate.
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Sanctus:
I believe the image Spokenword is refering to is Our Lady of All Nations?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Mary is not on the Cross in this image. She is in front of the Cross.

Maggie
 
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MaggieOH:
Mary is not on the Cross in this image. She is in front of the Cross.

Maggie
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SPOKENWORD:
I was thinking about that image with Mary standing on a globe in front of the cross. :confused:
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From what he said “in front of the cross” this is the image I got…he wasn’t refering to the first image.
 
Originally Posted by MaggieOH
Mary is not on the Cross in this image. She is in front of the Cross.
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Maggie
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SPOKENWORD:
Yes Maggie, and so was Jesus. 😉 God Bless
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Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

We each have to take up our crosses daily. If my cross is on my back, then I must be in front.

Peace in Christ…Salmon
 
SPOKENWORD said:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hi Rig,Okay I see the point if someone was crucified it would be a correct image. I was thinking along the lines that only Jesus paid the price by dying for us on the cross.Then why have there been images of Mary on the cross without her being crucified? :confused: God Bless
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The whole point is THERE AREN’T images of Mary on the cross at least not Catholic ones anyway, as it was explained to you about 100 times already this picture is of a female St. who was actually crucified.

RS
 
St Gemma speaks about Mary being “crucified” with Jesus:

*"*truly, then, when she sees Him being crucified… that poor Mother was transfixed by many arrows… Therefore my Mother was crucified together with Jesus."
You can read more here:

christendom-awake.org/pages/marian/5thdogma/hagiography-1.htm

Jesus was crucified in his body; Mary was crucified also, in her heart not just as any mother would be seeing her son suffer so, but as the immaculate mother of the Son of God would be as prophecied by Simeon.

St Gemma is said to have never committed a fully deliberate sin. She was also visited by angels.

There would be nothing wrong with depicting Mary on the cross since Mary in a unique way endured the intensity of her Son’s sufferings, her Son’s cross.

All Christians are called to unite themselves with the crucified Christ, to die with Christ so as to rise with Him. This is the meaning of our baptism by which we were baptized into his death.

St Bonaventure near the end of his Journey into the Mind of God speaks about resting in the arms of the crucified.
 
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rschermer2:
The whole point is THERE AREN’T images of Mary on the cross at least not Catholic ones anyway, as it was explained to you about 100 times already this picture is of a female St. who was actually crucified.

RS
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Not to be difficult, but I followed every link offered here and the one that featured this picture is about a purported Marian apparition. The site doesn’t mention Saint W or any other lady saint that was crucified. The caption says,“So and so prays in front of a statue of Mary.” It has NOT been established that the item pictured is any thing other than a depiction of our Blessed Mother superimposed on a cross. Granted, She hasn’t been crucified, but She’s mounted on a cross. Not that we should lead our lives based on what our Protestant brothers and sisters think about every little thing, but I have a sinking feeling that this is going to crop up on a lot of “See!?!?!?! I told you Catholics worship Mary!!!” websites. I don’t like this, not that that will matter. I feel the same way when any art other than an image of the Crucified Christ is displayed above the altar (ie, the Risen Savior, etc.). It’s supposed to be a Crucifix. This is a mixing of images that can cause problems. Gottle, what were you refering to about the position of Our Lady’s arms? This looks like lots of images of our Lady that I’ve seen where She is depicted in an attitude of prayer.
 
I know I’ll probably get flamed for this but an image of Mary on the cross makes me uncomfortable. Images of Jesus on the Cross is a huge symbol of our faith. Images of Mary at Fatima, Mary at Lourdes, Mary on the world, Mary at the foot of the cross, anywhere else to me are wonderful. I feel Jesus’ image should be the only one on the cross. It’s just too big of a symbolism for so many.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
The caption says,“So and so prays in front of a statue of Mary.” It has NOT been established that the item pictured is any thing other than a depiction of our Blessed Mother superimposed on a cross
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The statue the gentlemen is praying in front of is in the foreground of the picture. It would not be odd to have images of other saints at a Marian devotional site. It also hasn’t been proven that that is an image of Our Lady. I’m not saying one way or the other; like I said, we have no information and to draw conclusions without knowing exactly what it is we’re looking at we could all be in for a horrible suprise. I’ll reserve judgement until I know exactly what I’m looking at.
 
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Sanctus:
The statue the gentlemen is praying in front of is in the foreground of the picture. It would not be odd to have images of other saints at a Marian devotional site. It also hasn’t been proven that that is an image of Our Lady. I’m not saying one way or the other; like I said, we have no information and to draw conclusions without knowing exactly what it is we’re looking at we could all be in for a horrible suprise. I’ll reserve judgement until I know exactly what I’m looking at.
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Always the best policy! I did understand he was facing the statue in the foreground. My point was that no other saint is mentioned other than the Blessed Mother. I couldn’t get the other links to work, did anyone else?
 
Hey here’s something intresting from an archive of another forum I’m on…the person who answered the question is Fr. J.T. Zuhlsdorf. He is a wonderful priest currently in Rome:

oldforum.catholic.org/discussion/messages/41/777658.html?1074329518

Looking at the original picture, and this is just another guess, the Crucifix may be exactly like the one in the link…Christ crucified on the back and we couldn’t see him from this angle. I continue, however, to reserve judgment until all facts are in.
 
Interesting, but with respect, unconvincing. Perhaps I’m still not over my shock from 20 years ago when I was an Episcopalian and the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine put on display a "Christa," a image of anatomically correct naked woman nailed to a cross…and I’ve been susupicious ever since!
 
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Sanctus:
Hey here’s something intresting from an archive of another forum I’m on…the person who answered the question is Fr. J.T. Zuhlsdorf. He is a wonderful priest currently in Rome:

oldforum.catholic.org/discussion/messages/41/777658.html?1074329518

Looking at the original picture, and this is just another guess, the Crucifix may be exactly like the one in the link…Christ crucified on the back and we couldn’t see him from this angle. I continue, however, to reserve judgment until all facts are in.
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Thankyou Sanctus:) That was a nice explaination:thumbsup: Number one I feel like we are letting our protestant freinds make us uneasy about things because of false accusations and assumptions.Statues and Icons do have symbolic meaning and as a mother if I had to watch as my son was crucified,in a very real way I would be crucified in an unbloody manner,I would feel every nail every insult,and I would want with all my being to suffer it for him.I can see what the artist was trying to get accross and none of it was to take away from Jesus’ suffering.I see Our Blessed Mother on the Cross in a special way, seeing the suffering of Her Son and with pleading eyes reminding us do whatever He tells you.God Bless and if I get flammed so be it
 
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