lol! i can understand her ire though. cant you? its not nice when people speak untruthfully about our mother. i actually feel closer to Mary than my earthly mother. so im tracking why she is so upset. so im going to have to follow your advice and take a deep breath myself. and not let anyone take that peace away from me. sound advice. thank you. love in Christ
I do not disagree with Paul. I think I understand the truth of Jesus he was communicating. Bibilcal exegesis is very interesting … and in Hebews we see Paul [a jewish writer - writing to a jewish community] discussing Christ using the Hebrew writings. This is much the same as when Paull spoke to the men of Athens using the story of Epimenedes … he was using their “story” their tradition to explain the Gospel. And in so doing he emphasies the jewish understanding and tradition which maintains that anything not explicitly found written in the Torah does not exist. Thus because the Old Testament nowhere mentions Melchizedek’s ancestry, birth, or death, a *possible [though not probable] *conclusion can be drawn that he remains . . . forever - … that he had no birth and no death … thus he is a proto-type of Jesus …
well, * … And we have no information or reason to believe that he was an Angel or “Messanger” … thus, it is possible to understand an / or conclude that Melchizadek is a human person.
I have great Marian devotion also, I know how you feel and glad I can be of service.lol! i can understand her ire though. cant you? its not nice when people speak untruthfully about our mother. i actually feel closer to Mary than my earthly mother. so im tracking why she is so upset. so im going to have to follow your advice and take a deep breath myself. and not let anyone take that peace away from me. sound advice. thank you. love in Christ
Sarcastic? Moi?
It’s an attention-getter, right? 
But seriously, it is a good idea to remind them to be humble when speaking about God’s holy, chosen one - the Blessed Virgin Mary. I don’t think any of the Fathers or Doctors taught that either.
I do not disagree with Paul. I think I understand the truth of Jesus he was communicating. Bibilcal exegesis is very interesting … and in Hebews we see Paul [a jewish writer - writing to a jewish community] discussing Christ using the Hebrew writings. This is much the same as when Paull spoke to the men of Athens using the story of Epimenedes … he was using their “story” their tradition to explain the Gospel. And in so doing he emphasies the jewish understanding and tradition which maintains that anything not explicitly found written in the Torah does not exist. Thus because the Old Testament nowhere mentions Melchizedek’s ancestry, birth, or death, a *possible [though not probable] *conclusion can be drawn that he remains . . . forever - … that he had no birth and no death … thus he is a proto-type of Jesus …
Few scripture scholars would have Melchizadek actually be God - which would be necessary for one to have no beginning and no end
Human persons - by their nature - are concieved of parents in the normal manner, they live and die …This is true for all people - except for Jesus. The very same Jesus who was - is - and ever shall be … both fully human and fully divine - being of two natures and also one in being with God - the Father… Wow - a profound mystery …
Suffice it to say, I believe that Melchzadek [a title - not the name of a person] was human in every way … whom ever he was …*
Are you sure Paul wrote Hebrews?
Are you saying we can’t look at the words written and accept them as they are? Is there any Scripture that says Melchizadek has parents?
As for my reading of the Old Testament and Hebrews accounts of Melchizadek, I believe He is an OT sighting of Jesus. (Gen 14:18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High.) Notice the bread and wine - note Salem means Peace.
Well you can see how some are very cofused on this board. ,Mary was the Motrher of Jesus and Jesus was God so any onw can see Mary is the Mother of God,people can not be that blind or can they
Well you can see how some are very cofused on this board. ,Mary was the Motrher of Jesus and Jesus was God so ane one can see Mary is the Mother of God,people can not be that blind or can they
Jesus entered time and space in Bethlehem - the Word existed before that - not the man … I do not know of any early Christian writer that would share your position … But alas, this is not a thread on Melchizadek… so I do not want to derail the thread … However, I will make this observation:
… You possess all the ‘wild cards’ … … now go and read the Bread of Life Discourses and the Institution of the Eucharist and Paul’s writings on the importance of that same Eucharist on your life and health! … I try not to write doctoral dissertations here … if I go back to earn a doctorate I want to experience that joy for the first time … :bounce:*I think it all comes down to Jesus’ divine and human forms. Some want to claim Mary is only mother to the Human form,. but he is both, so you cannot deny the divine form. When you give birth to someone you dont just give birth to their blue eyes and red hair, it is the WHOLE person.
Jesus entered time and space in Bethlehem - the Word existed before that - not the man … I do not know of any early Christian writer that would share your position … But alas, this is not a thread on Melchizadek… so I do not want to derail the thread … However, I will make this observation:
You seem to be a strick [literal] biblical interpreter - unless you have some personal ‘insight’ on a passage … except for those literal passages that catholics hold to * … and then the scriptures should not be taken literally
Oh - yes and I enjoyed your appeal to the Bread and Wine …
Authorship in a historical/biblical sense is not always understood in the same way we understand authorship to day … yes I am well aware of the research into biblical authorship … the concensus of adademia on who wrote various writings, who did not …
Thank you for your response, I guess. Much of it, while informative, seems to be written with either sarcasm or condesension or both. No big deal; just an observation.
Am I to understand you take things literal when it suits you and not literal when you don’t want to (just turn the two examples you sight around).
As for the Bread and Wine: you want to take it literal that It turns in the Body and Blood of Jesus and that’s fine but wait a minute… Jesus said those words over literal bread and literal wine. I’ve been to more than one Catholic Mass and I never saw bread and wine (grape juice) passed out to the congregation. Seems the ‘Last Supper’ for you is literal but not really. Looks like you may hold some ‘wild cards’ yourself.
BTW, I would agree with you that as I have read Paul’s writings, I think Hebrews was written by him. But I’m a no body who obviously has trouble understanding things.
Mary was just a vessel yes the vessel that Our Lord come into the world and any one that believe that Jesus is God,can say Mary is the Morther of Jesus and the MOTHER OF GOD,How can any Christian not see this unles he/she is blind. We have a lot of people on this board that are in need of pray,Please pray for people like this person,Peace
ARe you sure you were at a Catholic Mass? Did you see the part where everyone forms a big line and goes up to the front of the the Church and receives communion? That’s the bread and wine they’re getting (well, at that point it’s Jesus they’re getting).
Dokimos,If you get to heaven ,You can tell Jesus that Mary is not His Mother
Why would I say something that was not true? I’ve never said Mary was not the mother of Jesus. Of course she was. I’ve said (and explained what I mean) that, IMO, Mary is not the Mother of God.
I vote for WRONG
God’s the only vote that counts. Aren’t you glad?
I do not disagree with Paul. I think I understand the truth of Jesus he was communicating. Bibilcal exegesis is very interesting … and in Hebews we see Paul [a jewish writer - writing to a jewish community] discussing Christ using the Hebrew writings. This is much the same as when Paull spoke to the men of Athens using the story of Epimenedes … he was using their “story” their tradition to explain the Gospel. And in so doing he emphasies the jewish understanding and tradition which maintains that anything not explicitly found written in the Torah does not exist. Thus because the Old Testament nowhere mentions Melchizedek’s ancestry, birth, or death, a *possible [though not probable] *conclusion can be drawn that he remains . . . forever - … that he had no birth and no death … thus he is a proto-type of Jesus …
Few scripture scholars would have Melchizadek actually be God - which would be necessary for one to have no beginning and no end
Human persons - by their nature - are concieved of parents in the normal manner, they live and die …This is true for all people - except for Jesus. The very same Jesus who was - is - and ever shall be … both fully human and fully divine - being of two natures and also one in being with God - the Father… Wow - a profound mystery …
Suffice it to say, I believe that Melchzadek [a title - not the name of a person] was human in every way … whom ever he was …*
In Luke 1:41-43, ‘…Elizabeth, being filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb! And how have I deserved that Mother of My Lord should come to me?’"
Elizabeth,Filled with the Holy Spirit called Mary the ‘Mother of my Lord’. Since being ‘filled with the Holy Spirit’ means the same throughout the Bible, then it was theHoly Spirit who gave her the words to say, isn’t that true?