B
babochka
Guest
Thank you. I have also learned a lot, and have slightly modified my stance. Very slightly. I suppose a Catholic is free, in a sense, to believe that Mary did not die. Not believing this won’t endanger one’s salvation.You have indeed been very polite and inviting of discussion others have not and they are the ones who spoil the discussion. I have learned a lot it hasn’t changed my beliefs but enforced them.
First, as much as I respect Catholic Answers, I don’t consider tracts from them to be evidence of Church teaching. I’m looking for Church documents - official catechisms, encyclicals, pastoral letters, liturgical texts, letters of clarification from Rome. That sort of thing. If the church had a teaching that this was a matter of whatever the faithful wish to believe, I think it would have been addressed.You have asked for evidence that Catholic are free to believe or not believe. What I have read is that the Church has not addressed the subject at all. A tract from Catholic Answers states
I think I’ve made my case - correct me if you disagree - that the Church does have a teaching that Mary died. Infallible? No. But I contend that the Church teaches through liturgy. The teaching that Mary laid in a tomb is explicit in the Byzantine Rite, and has historically been present in some of the western rites. I’m looking for evidence that the Church also has such a teaching about her Assumption without bodily death. Something official from the Church, somewhere. If such a thing existed, I believe the two positions would be on more equal footing. As it stands, only one has ever been taught by the Church and the Church has not seen fit to clarify. It does seem safer to take the position that has been actually taught by the Church, rather than the one that simply hasn’t been shut down.
I think the answer to this is given. “** and the integrity of the doctrine of the Assumption would not be impaired if she did not in fact die**,” Any dogma ought to be specific and as narrow as possible.The argument I have seen is there are many things that are believed by the Church that are not formally defined. A good point, however, the Assumption was formally defined and the tract continues " and the integrity of the doctrine of the Assumption would not be impaired if she did not in fact die, but the almost universal consensus is that she did die. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), defined that Mary, “after the completion of her earthly life” (note the silence regarding her death), “was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven.” "
I think it is incontrovertible that the Church has taught that Mary died but when it came to officially stating it the Church did not. You have to wonder why?