Mass and displays of ?excessive piety

[graceandglory]

I admire someone else who does a full genuflect before she receives communion. I find that inspiring and I wish I could physically make my one knee touch the floor and then get up without fear of toppling over. As it is, I now do a partial genuflect, following her example. It increases my reverence for the moment of receiving communion.

In all honesty,
I wish I could do things that showed my love and reverence for the Eucharist and my gratefulness in being back home in the Catholic Church. I wish I could wear a head covering. I wish I could bow my knee before taking communion. I don’t for the only reason that I don’t want to bring attention to myself. I was charismatic for so many years that I would rather be invisible and doing all those reverent things than have anyone see me.

For now, I choose to cover my head in my non head covering parish during Advent and Lent. That way it’s not “hey look at me…I’m holier than you are!”

I read in “Ask an Apologist” that even if I wanted to bow my knee before I receive the Eucharist, it’s not in the GIRM, so it’s not permitted.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3546666&highlight=genuflect#post3546666
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one at risk of toppling over when I genuflect.

 

[graceandglory]

I think you should kneel (I’ve seen organists and choir members do this).

It’s kinda cumbersome, but when I was a guitar-playing teenager in folk Mass, we would all kneel during the Eucharistic Prayer, pop up for the Memorial Acclamation, down again, and up again for the Amen.

 

[HappyRevert]

Where we are the behaviors are different at the larger masses than the smaller ones. During the week at the early morning masses, we have people who completely kneel to take the Eucharist, but I’ve never seen it on a Sunday. I see both sides of the argument, but feel sorry for those who feel so obviously reverent and in awe of the Lord, prevented from expressing their devotion in the manner they were most likely taught from childhood. I think we all need to be more tolerant of each other - because I have to admit there have been times I’ve refrained from shouting with joy before receiving the Eucharist and sometimes wonder if that is always a good thing

Unless something were incredibly disruptive (like the one mentioned about intentionally falling), I would say it should be welcomed because they are probably experiencing something profound and should be permitted to do it.

 

[benedictgal]

There used to be a man who would place himself at the front pew. When it was time to kneel, he would kneel in the aisle outside the pew and bow with his head almost touching the floor. He impressed me with his devoutness, yet I found it distracting.

I admire someone else who does a full genuflect before she receives communion. I find that inspiring and I wish I could physically make my one knee touch the floor and then get up without fear of toppling over. As it is, I now do a partial genuflect, following her example. It increases my reverence for the moment of receiving communion.

Actually, I have seen this happen at our local Priory of St. John. The brothers and the nuns do this during the consecration and during the Ecce Agnus Dei. When I have gone to Mass there, I have done it as well. The pews have enough space to do this without hitting your head when you come up. It is really a moving experience. Of course, the brothers and the nuns sit on little teeny tiny benches and they kneel on little rugs. These little rugs are also at each pew. It felt a little strange at first, but, after awhile, there is a sense of humility. It reminds me of the comments that the Holy Father made regarding prostration during his homily for the Solemnity of Corpus Christi.

One time, my PV (when he served as rector of the cathedral) did this while the deacon was placing the Sacred Host back into the tabernacle. When he exposes the Blessed Sacrament at the local hospital chapel (after Mass), he also does this on occasion.

Of course, at the Cathedral, I’ve pretty much seen it all. There was a woman who would come in dressed in an outfit similar to one of the Marian statues. Sometimes, she would come in with blue and white garments. On other occasions, she would come in with a brown vestige similar to Carmel. During Palm Sunday, she would come in red garments and carry a huge palm and floral cross and wave it during the Proclamation of the Passion. I haven’t seen her in a while.

 

[RosalieM]

In all honesty,
I wish I could do things that showed my love and reverence for the Eucharist and my gratefulness in being back home in the Catholic Church. I wish I could wear a head covering. I wish I could bow my knee before taking communion. I don’t for the only reason that I don’t want to bring attention to myself. I was charismatic for so many years that I would rather be invisible and doing all those reverent things than have anyone see me.

For now, I choose to cover my head in my non head covering parish during Advent and Lent. That way it’s not “hey look at me…I’m holier than you are!”

I read in “Ask an Apologist” that even if I wanted to bow my knee before I receive the Eucharist, it’s not in the GIRM, so it’s not permitted.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3546666&highlight=genuflect#post3546666
I’m glad to know I’m not the only one at risk of toppling over when I genuflect.

Actually it doesn’t say it’s forbidden to genuflect. At Papal Masses, people do a full kneel-down. Also, I cover my head with a lace chapel veil on the weekend mass. At first I too felt it was “holier than thou” and eventually stopped. Then I wore it a few weeks ago when I made a private vow. Last Saturday at the vigil Mass, I wore it again. It enhances the Mass for me and I don’t feel “holier than thou” or conspicuous any more. When I tried it on a home before going to Mass, the words that filled my head were, “I’m proud (meaning happy and not ashamed) to be a Catholic”.

 

[FrDavid96]

Where we are the behaviors are different at the larger masses than the smaller ones. During the week at the early morning masses, we have people who completely kneel to take the Eucharist, but I’ve never seen it on a Sunday. I see both sides of the argument, but feel sorry for those who feel so obviously reverent and in awe of the Lord, prevented from expressing their devotion in the manner they were most likely taught from childhood. I think we all need to be more tolerant of each other - because I have to admit there have been times I’ve refrained from shouting with joy before receiving the Eucharist and sometimes wonder if that is always a good thing

Unless something were incredibly disruptive (like the one mentioned about intentionally falling), I would say it should be welcomed because they are probably experiencing something profound and should be permitted to do it.

In my personal experience I have known a few people who kneel at daily Mass, but stand during Sunday Mass. Their approach to this is that when they do it at the daily Mass, they know that their behavior will be seen to be exactly what it is: reverence for the Eucharist. On the other hand, they know that if they do it at Sunday Mass, others will misunderstand it and think that they are trying to be disruptive and “make a point.”

 

[MusicMan]

And that’s why I remain on the bench. I don’t want to be disruptive and cause people to think I’m drawing attention to my piety.

The problem I then have is that when I go to Mass as just a member of the congregation (and it’s pretty rare), kneeling for the Liturgy of the Eucharist makes my butt hurt.

 

[benedictgal]

And that’s why I remain on the bench. I don’t want to be disruptive and cause people to think I’m drawing attention to my piety.

The problem I then have is that when I go to Mass as just a member of the congregation (and it’s pretty rare), kneeling for the Liturgy of the Eucharist makes my butt hurt.

Actually, our parish pianist just moves to the pew closest to him (our piano is a couple of feet from the pews). After the elevation of the chalice, he just slides back into his bench and plays that annoying pitch note for the celebrant (who doesn’t even follow it). Then, he goes to the pew and just before the EP concludes, he slides back into his spot, plays another annoying pitch note (which the celebrant doesn’t use) and gets us ready for the Great Amen. So, depending on your location, it can be done.

Our cathedral organist is up in the choir loft. He also kneels and then will slide back into place. Thankfully, he doesn’t play the annoying pitch note. I know because I’ve been up there with him. I had to serve a brief stint directing our children’s choir until we could get someone.

 

[de_profundis]

I hold my hands open during the Our Father, and while it is common in some cultures for nearly everyone to do so, in Australia barely anyone does it (unless from Latin American/Italian/Asian background). Sometimes I feel that it is something that draws attention so I should refrain from, but on the other hand it helps me to concentrate on the prayer and I feel I should stop being paranoid about being judged.

As for seeing any acts of ‘piety’ at mass that disrupt me, I haven’t really encountered any.

 

[EasterJoy]

While one occasionally is witness to disruptive and even dysfunctional behavior during mass, does anyone have any thoughts of instances where the laity present engage in demeanors which one might consider to be excessively pious, i.e. sign oneself repeatedly during mass outside of the rubrics or bow profoundly when one is kneeling?

Oh, for Pete’s sake. Are we really so short of real problems of our own to tend to?

Sometimes, “peace” is spelled M-Y-O-B.

 

[MusicMan]

You’d be surprised how many people think that their own issues are insignificant compared to the actions of others.

 

[Linda_Marie]

We have four sisters from the Missionaries of Charity, Mother Teresa’s mob, in our parish. When they enter the church, they prostrate themselves before the Tabernacle. I find it to be an inspiration. I don’t think anyone sees them as being excessively pious.

 

[RosalieM]

We have four sisters from the Missionaries of Charity, Mother Teresa’s mob, in our parish. When they enter the church, they prostrate themselves before the Tabernacle. I find it to be an inspiration. I don’t think anyone sees them as being excessively pious.

Wow! That IS inspiring!
(I guess I won’t get busted for a partial genuflect before receiving communion after all; – or for wearing a chapel veil on weekends)

 

[Aramis]

I don’t think the poster meant that simply blessing yourself with holy water was excessive. I think s/he meant something like the people I see crossing themselves five times in a row when they start their prayers/bless themselves with holy water. There is this one woman who did that at one of the churches I frequent, and she also used to splash the holy water out of the font when she used it. Literally. Projectile splashes that would spatter anyone within a three to five foot radius. I was kneeling at the altar rail praying the rosary, and there was a font attached to a pillar close by me. Next thing I know, I’m getting splatted with holy water as she repeatedly dipped her hand into the font, scooped up some water and proceded to bless herself. Five times in a row. I thought I was going to need an umbrella.

That is a vary typical Eastern Catholic affectation, Ukrainian especially but not exclusively.

My typical pre-mass prayers, when I go to a latin parish, involve at least 5 times making the sign of the cross, plus the signing myself with the holy water upon entry. The prayers I normally say before any liturgy are traditionally accompanied by the sigh of the cross.

 

[FrDavid96]

Look folks, once again we need to remember the original question that was asked. The OP did not mean that every act of piety was excessive. The poster was asking about others experience of when acts of “piety” are taken to the extreme and become excessive.

 

[maggiemay2u]

Gimme the piety but leave the chatter. Sometimes it’s all I can do not to grab the microphone and remind folks they are in the presence of the real living God, and not at Starbucks.

 

[Sarabande]

OK… question for you all about acts of (excessive) piety.

When I’m the accompanist at Mass, what do I do in between the Sanctus and the Memorial Acclamation? Do I get up from the piano bench and kneel, or do I remain seated at the piano?

I think it really depends on how your piano is set up at your church. At my parish, there are no kneelers in the organ/choir loft. I believe at one point there used to be pews and kneelers up there, but they were taken out decades ago. When the choir is there, there wouldn’t be any room for them to kneel. With the way the choir loft is, if you did kneel, you wouldn’t be able to see over the solid wood.

At other parishes where I’ve cantored from the choir loft like during weddings and funerals, some will have kneelers and/or room for people to kneel, so I can do it there. Other times I will just remain standing and the organist will remain on the bench. Also, sometimes with certain consuls it can be hard for an older organist or a person that has bad knees to get up quickly enough to play the organ. As a cantor and a younger person with healthy legs, I can just pop right back up without a problem. But I’ve seen others who have had problems trying to do that.

So, I’d say do what works best in your situation. I have never thought, “Oh… that organist wasn’t kneeling. How irreverent!!!” I’m sure most people haven’t either, except for maybe a few crumudgens who can’t think of anything better to do but to kvetch over everything. haha!

 

[Sarabande]

Look folks, once again we need to remember the original question that was asked. The OP did not mean that every act of piety was excessive. The poster was asking about others experience of when acts of “piety” are taken to the extreme and become excessive.

When it comes down to it, though, what’s wrong (or right) with excessive piety? Some of our saints have practiced things which today would be considered excessive - for example St. Thomas More, who my husband and I really admire (we even have his portrait in our home), used to wear hair shirts among other things. I’ve always thought that was strange and over-the-top, but at the same time I admired him for his devotion.

And also, what is considered “excessive”? For instance, genuflecting or bowing before receiving the Eucharist might be normal in one parish, but might look overly pious in another.

One little story I’ll share. At the small farming parish where I will sometimes attend when visiting our mountain home, we had Franciscans saying the masses during the summer. One weekend, there were two young Franciscans (one looked to be in his late 20s/early 30s, the other in his late 30s/early 40s). The older one said the mass, chanted all the parts in Latin, etc. and when it came time to receive communion, the other franciscan was the first to recieve. He knelt down and received. I was right behind him and was so moved by this, that I knelt and received. I can’t really express what I truly felt, but that it just felt so wonderful to do this. I felt that if it was ok for him to do this, it was a cue for us to also do it. Some did and some didn’t. (This is a parish that never got rid of using the pattens.)

The next time I was up there, a much older Franciscan said the mass. He looked to be in his 60s/70s, nice man, etc. I thought that since they were all from the same order, they probably all practiced the same way. So, when it came time for communion, I knelt again. I felt comfortable doing it since the Franciscans the last time did it. But after he said the mass was ended, he took the time to tell all of us to re-read our catechism (this was actually a parish which the prior pastor would teach a section of the catechism each Sunday after the homily. Everyone owned a catechism and brought it to mass - remember this is a church out in the middle of nowhere - no catholic schools - only place to receive any religious education) and to also be sure to know what is appropriate and not appropriate for mass, or something to that effect. I felt that he was pointing that to me since it’s a tiny church and I was the only one who knelt that time, but I was also one of the first to receive. Anyway, I realized that he was more liberal than the other friars (different generation), but at the same time understood what he meant. I don’t like to look out of place or appear overly pious either, as that was not my intention. But thought it was ok, since it was ok the last time.

 

[hosemonkey]

“Excessive” piety? By whose standards? I would rather have “excessive” piety than the cacaphony of noise that accompanies the average NO mass in the average parish today. One can niether pray nor recollect oneself amid the din of greetings, screaming children and general hubbub going on. Let’s put the tabernacle back on the altar where it belongs and return the sense of reverence for the House of God that we once had. Educate the people so that they might recover what they have lost, the profound respect for the house of God and what it contains. “Excessive piety”, yes, I’ll have some please.

 

[eelpis]

Let people cross themselves as many times they want but please the disruptive and unhealthy handholding must stop and the excessive raising of hands during Our Father is very disruptive and ugly too.