Mass and displays of ?excessive piety

[benedictgal]

LOL, reminds me of when I saw someone dressed like Jesus during Mass with a robe and long hair and a calm serene gaze.

Did the woman come dressed in robe-like garments like Mary or was it more of an outfit with Marian colors?

She came in Marian colors, but, sometimes, the garments looked a little like something from a stature. At least she didn’t wear anything “interesting” for the feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe. She was a nice lady. I talked to her for a little bit when I was trying to get folks to not enter the Church yet until the Easter Vigil.

What is most moving is to see folks (when Mass is not being celebrate) walk up the aisle on their knees to fulfill a private devotional promise. The disconcerting thing, as I have seen from catching the televised broadcast of the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe from Mexico City are the folks who, come Hades or high water, are going to do their own devotional act while the Mass is being celebrated. They will file into the Basilica, perform their particular ritual and leave, all while the Archbishop of Mexico is celebrating Mass. It’s a little disheartening.

 

[brigid12]

While one occasionally is witness to disruptive and even dysfunctional behavior during mass, does anyone have any thoughts of instances where the laity present engage in demeanors which one might consider to be excessively pious, i.e. sign oneself repeatedly during mass outside of the rubrics or bow profoundly when one is kneeling?

Due to the massive lack of reverence now, I would feel glad that someone was being so devout and leaping to judgment wouldn’t even cross my mind. If there is anyone (including a cleric) that is disturbed by this, it would seem that the problem is theirs.

If the priest wanted to make sure that there was not some lack of knowledge about what actions were required by the Church by those assisting at mass, he could certainly speak with the people privately, definitely not publicly.

 

[The_Sojourner]

Crossing oneself outside of the rubrics: I generally cross myself during the Confietor. However, this varies. At college, at least half the congregation does it too, so I’m not drawing attention to myself. At my home parish, it’s more like 1%, so I try not to do it, but sometimes I forget.

Profound bows while kneeling: I’m not entirely sure what you mean by this. At least where I come from people kneel at all sorts of angles—I wouldn’t know if you were making a profound bow or if you were just resting against the pew.

Me, I have back problems which are mild but which nonetheless make it difficult for me to kneel. So generally I’ll end up half-sitting on the pew behind me, though with my knees still on the kneeler. So if you’re ever scandalized by the 19-year-old who does the sissy little half-kneel, just realize it might be harder than it looks.

There’s a lady at my home parish who wears a head covering and skirts. I refer to her affectionately as “Mantilla Lady”. (I’m not sure what her name is.) I’ve never been bothered by the fact that she’s probably the only woman in our parish who wears a head covering.

So, I’d say as long as you’re not being disruptive (and I think you’d know when you’d crossed that line), go ahead and be as pious as you can.

 

[bpbasilphx]

**That’s not piety.

It’s self-aggrandizement.**

**We had a saying in the monastery: Beware of the monk whose humility you’re always tripping over.

We should not seek to singularize ourselves by our expressions of piety.**

 

[Ruthie]

Oh… so that was you!!! I thought you were trying to show how much more prayerful and holy you were by not holding my hand.

Sarabande, you rascal, you!

I’ve gotten fond of the Catholic usage of “vertical” and “horizontal.”

As far as piety goes, I’d say it might be a display if it’s horizontal, but not if it’s vertical - and only the person knows for sure.

Me, I struggle with it - part of my struggle with pride.

Not unto me, oh Lord, but unto thy name be the glory.

Ruthie

 

[TurboVW]

**That’s not piety.

It’s self-aggrandizement.**

**We had a saying in the monastery: Beware of the monk whose humility you’re always tripping over.

We should not seek to singularize ourselves by our expressions of piety.**

Exactly.

I don’t mean to sound judgemental, but I see it all the time at the churches downtown. Saw an older gent cross himself about ten times in a row while staring straight ahead at the altar. Another time I saw another making his way around chruch, crossing himself three times at every statue.

From my experience, sometimes such actions could even be classified as a form of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, when the state of mind is “If I don’t do this x amount of times, something bad could happen to me.”

There’s nothing wrong with bowing or genuflecting reverently, so long as it’s not done excessively and in an exaggerated way. Although we dont know what on people’s hearts and minds, it’s best to keep in mind the Little Way of St. Therese…humility in awe and reverence.

 

[Writer]

I don’t think the poster meant that simply blessing yourself with holy water was excessive. I think s/he meant something like the people I see crossing themselves five times in a row when they start their prayers/bless themselves with holy water. There is this one woman who did that at one of the churches I frequent, and she also used to splash the holy water out of the font when she used it. Literally. Projectile splashes that would spatter anyone within a three to five foot radius. I was kneeling at the altar rail praying the rosary, and there was a font attached to a pillar close by me. Next thing I know, I’m getting splatted with holy water as she repeatedly dipped her hand into the font, scooped up some water and proceded to bless herself. Five times in a row. I thought I was going to need an umbrella.

Some of the things mentioned really remind me of obsessive compulsive disorder, which is perhaps worth remembering when wer’re trying to understand or categorize the distracting behavior.

 

[ChristIsLord]

I had a guy at my commuter parish who would recieve at the rail in his hand and hold it and weep at it, sometimes pounding on the rail for minutes holding the Host until he was the last one there then he would consume the Host, it seemed pretty out there to me.

 

[TurboVW]

I had a guy at my commuter parish who would recieve at the rail in his hand and hold it and weep at it, sometimes pounding on the rail for minutes holding the Host until he was the last one there then he would consume the Host, it seemed pretty out there to me.

And that is excessive.

It’s ok to be pious…to an extent. It was mentioned before “So, I’d say as long as you’re not being disruptive (and I think you’d know when you’d crossed that line), go ahead and be as pious as you can.”

But there’s grace in humility. The last thing (and I have to remind myself of this) we should want is to draw other’s people attention away from the Mass unto ourselves. Nobody’s going to say “Oh, look how religious and reverent that person is, making a huge display…”

 

[Ruthie]

I have a lot of pride. I have to really watch myself, not to impute it to other people. Sometimes I go up to receive with the attitude, “I am in a state of grace! I am worthy to receive!” I, I, me, me. I need to repeat the prayer before communion when I feel like that. Even if I’m fresh from Reconciliation, that doesn’t make me worthy. It is only Jesus that makes me worthy: His grace, His death on the cross, His overwhelming generosity to a sinner like me.

There are times when I receive with tears of gratitude. If we had an altar rail, I might indeed be tempted to pause and “weep at” the Host.

Lord, be merciful to me, a sinner. To Your name be the glory.

 

[MaryAnnCath]

In regard to genuflecting before receiving Eucharist, I genuflect. Once I was told by our prior parish priest not to do this. I was upset and asked a different priest who teaches in the seminary. He told me to never allow any person/priest to tell me I cannot genuflect before receiving Him. In reading Pope Benedict’s encyclical, I believe it’s Deus Caritas Est, he extols people to properly give a sign of reverence before receiving. He quotes St. Augustine, (I’m paraphrasing here), it is right to give a sign of reverence before receiving, in fact, it could be considered a sin not to. It is my understanding that either a full bow from the waist or genuflection is the norm. I see people who give barely a nod. I try not to judge, I don’t know their situation. Some people suffer from vertigo and it upsets their balance to give a full bow and some cannot genuflect due to bad knees, etc. The Lord knows the hearts of the people and will judge them, I feel. I just thank God I have the physical ability to genuflect/kneel at Mass.
As far as other excesses, I agree with another poster, if it is not so distracting to others, let them worship as they see fit.

I’m sure the angels are kneeling or are prostrate and they are of much higher intelligence than I. Remember the Angel at Fatima who gave the children communion?

The most important thing for me is for my soul to be properly disposed to receive.

One other thing, about some who seem excessive. Perhaps they have been granted a favor from Heaven we know nothing about and they are showing their gratitude the best way they know how.

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Eucharist means Thanksgiving in Greek!

 

[CB_Catholic]

I don’t see too much out of the ordinary at Mass in our parish, but then again I’m not usually paying much attention; however, I do see some “different” expressions of piety at our weekly Eucharistic Exposition occasionally. It doesn’t bother me as long as people are quiet and not disturbing others. I figure that is their special time with God before the exposed Blessed Sacrament, not my business, and I don’t view it as self-aggrandizement. They are just having their own special hour with Jesus, and if you can’t have it there, where can you?

 

[vocatio]

This sounds OCD to me. Are you sure she’s not suffering from OCD? I watched a lady from a distance, homeless woman, go back and forth to a mail box to touch it over and over and over several times. This could be a Catholic that also embraces some of the Eastern Catholic rituals…repeated signing. Our parish is pretty reverent compared to most. We’re the only parish that offers perpetual adoration. We also have a pipe organ that is being prepared for installation. A parishoner donate $1 million bukaroos for this purpose. Personally I feel the money could be put to better use. However, I certainly understand the desire to return to many of the more reverent ways of the Pre-Vatican II days. That the changes occurred when I was not a practicing Catholic because my mother dispised Catholicism. So I only had the privelege of experiencing this reverence as a very young child.

 

[JuanCarlos]

I don’t know if this is excessively pious, or even pious at all, but once I saw a man cup his hand and reach into the Holy Water font and use the water to slick his hair. He made the sign of the cross after doing so and he looked pretty reverent otherwise, so I don’t know what his intent was

 

[vocatio]

Speaking of OCD. I had to fix this.

…There is this one woman who did that at one of the churches I frequent, and she also used to splash the holy water out of the font when she used it. Literally. Projectile splashes that would spatter anyone within a three to five foot radius. I was kneeling at the altar rail praying the rosary, and there was a font attached to a pillar close by me. Next thing I know, I’m getting splatted with holy water as she repeatedly dipped her hand into the font, scooped up some water and proceded to bless herself. Five times in a row. I thought I was going to need an umbrella.

This sounds OCD to me. Are you sure she’s not suffering from OCD? I watched a lady from a distance, homeless woman, go back and forth to a mail box to touch it over and over and over several times. This could be a Catholic that also embraces some of the Eastern Catholic rituals…repeated signing. Our parish is pretty reverent compared to most. We’re the only parish that offers perpetual adoration. We also have a pipe organ that is being prepared for installation. A parishoner donate $1 million bukaroos for this purpose. Personally I feel the money could be put to better use. However, I certainly understand the desire to return to many of the more reverent ways of the Pre-Vatican II days. That the changes occurred when I was not a practicing Catholic because my mother dispised Catholicism. So I only had the privelege of experiencing this reverence as a very young child.

 

[MarthaMartha]

There is another thing, however, that used to distract me but I’ve built up a tolerance. That is when people whisper/mimic what the priest is saying (out loud) in the parts of the mass where we should be quiet. In short, they are audibly saying the mass along with the priest.

At our parish, every Sunday at the early Mass there is a man who sits in the front pew with his daughter and sings “Through Him, with Him and in Him” through the Amen along with the priest. Trouble is, he is deaf (age 90+) and never sings it in sync with Father! The “regulars” are used to him, but when we have visiting priests, it tends to throw them off the melody.

Hey. At least he’s there.

 

[MarthaMartha]

I don’t know if this is excessively pious, or even pious at all, but once I saw a man cup his hand and reach into the Holy Water font and use the water to slick his hair. He made the sign of the cross after doing so and he looked pretty reverent otherwise, so I don’t know what his intent was

Ew. :dts:

 

[vocatio]

Remember this thread as mass yesterday made be very self conscious.

 

[JPUSC]

I don’t know if this is excessively pious, or even pious at all, but once I saw a man cup his hand and reach into the Holy Water font and use the water to slick his hair. He made the sign of the cross after doing so and he looked pretty reverent otherwise, so I don’t know what his intent was

Maybe he was praying that his head won’t go bald.

I put Lourdes water on a chipped tooth when I was 10, lol.

 

[leaner]

fwiw, I genuflect and beg one last forgiveness before receiving – I do it with a child in front of me who is getting a blessing (too young to receive) so as not to confuse the priest or knock anything out of his hands…I’ve noticed most people bow, step forward and receive. What I don’t understand is how we got away from kneeling when the tabernacle is open…my knees automatically bend when the priest says “behold” – guess it’s all those years back east?