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estesbob
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Iwish your father would have stuck around too. However thst does does mean that we should condemn adopted to children to start minus a parent.
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Giannawannabe
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I agree with Bob. There is not a single adoptive parent that I know, who would not have adopted that little boy—none. I include my dh and I in that group. We have and have always been open to any race and currently have a multicultural family. I’m not sure that you can determine whether this 5 y.o. boy is “normal”. Grandmothers or female “friends” for female “influences” can not take the place of a mother.
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Giannawannabe
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Yet, you had a father. It is different to have a father who was not around than having absolutely no father. My parents were separated for years, so I know a little bit about what you saying. The fact that some people are raised in single-parent households due to divorce, death, or some other such factor does not justify placing an innocent child into a home with no chance of having a father or mother. ESPECIALLY, when there are thousands of married, heterosexual couples on waiting lists. Currently, most adoptions are open to a certain extent. Birthmoms can choose where their children go. All 3 of my children’s birthmoms chose adoption, so that their kids could have a mom/dad stable home–that was the reason they listed. Some of the gay couples I know of who have adopted, have misrepresented their situations in order to be chosen for a baby. It breaks my heart that these vulnerable birthmoms were mislead.
I’m sorry that you did not have a good father. Many of us did not. Your personal experience does not excuse the placement of children with homosexual couples when there are more than enough heterosexual married couples available.
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Giannawannabe
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It is being selfish to only want a child to fulfill YOUR needs.
However, to adopt an older child who has been tossed around from foster home to foster home in order to provide the CHILD with a stable home would not be selfish. Older children (above age 12), and children with severe handicaps are the only children in this country who are actually WAITING to be adopted. Children under 12, infants, babies, toddlers, of any race do not wait for long. I have been monitoring the State Adoption list for about a year now—and these kids are off the list in very short order.
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Liberalsaved
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Good for them. I don’t like being called selfish by a internet poster, though. That is very much personal and I consider it something you need to say to me in private.
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estesbob
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We;; I most certainly didnt intend to call you selfish. my apologies for coming acrosss that way.
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Liberalsaved
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Accepted.
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LeahInancsi
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Point well taken to all who disagreed with me.
As for allowing gays to adopt because they would be the only people to take less than perfect children: I’m probably talking to the wrong group. As Catholics, we are taught to appreciate all lives equally because we are all God’s children. I won’t say we’re in the minority on that point, but there are a LOT of people who won’t take a mixed-race child or a child who might suffer from the affects of it’s mother’s addiction to drugs or might have physical or emotional problems. I will stand by my point that homosexual parents do not make bad parents. Has anyone seen this week’s People Magazine?
As for single parent families: I never married largely because I couldn’t be sure that I wouldn’t find myself in the same position my mother found herself, raising a child by myself. I’m not looking for sympathy because I have no regrets.
I have a question for anyone who would like to answer. A couple month’s ago I was on a singles’ website and I was shocked at the number of “never married” parents. It was no big deal to them. I don’t understand why. I can only assume that they feared divorce more than raising a child with only one parent. Can anyone explain this to me? What happened to marrying to, at least, try to give a child a family?
Single parenthood seems to be the norm these days. Too many people have lost sight of the value of a two parent nuclear family. I really don’t want to get started on this subject (off topic), except that** I think that two homosexual parents can be as good as many heterosexual parents or a single heterosexual parent. **
BTW, I’m very conservative. This is my only lieberal soapbox.
As for allowing gays to adopt because they would be the only people to take less than perfect children: I’m probably talking to the wrong group. As Catholics, we are taught to appreciate all lives equally because we are all God’s children. I won’t say we’re in the minority on that point, but there are a LOT of people who won’t take a mixed-race child or a child who might suffer from the affects of it’s mother’s addiction to drugs or might have physical or emotional problems. I will stand by my point that homosexual parents do not make bad parents. Has anyone seen this week’s People Magazine?
As for single parent families: I never married largely because I couldn’t be sure that I wouldn’t find myself in the same position my mother found herself, raising a child by myself. I’m not looking for sympathy because I have no regrets.
I have a question for anyone who would like to answer. A couple month’s ago I was on a singles’ website and I was shocked at the number of “never married” parents. It was no big deal to them. I don’t understand why. I can only assume that they feared divorce more than raising a child with only one parent. Can anyone explain this to me? What happened to marrying to, at least, try to give a child a family?
Single parenthood seems to be the norm these days. Too many people have lost sight of the value of a two parent nuclear family. I really don’t want to get started on this subject (off topic), except that** I think that two homosexual parents can be as good as many heterosexual parents or a single heterosexual parent. **
BTW, I’m very conservative. This is my only lieberal soapbox.
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Giannawannabe
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Yes. This is exactly the question. On this we agree. Let’s at least TRY to give a child a family—a mom and a dad and a stable home. Most kids who are from single parent homes wish it were different for them. The kids I know who are in homosexual couple homes wish they had a mom (or a dad). WHY do we think this is okay? When my dad wasn’t around, I hoped upon hope that he would return. Even though I was angry with him for leaving and running around on my mom. It was confusing and hurtful. When placing an innocent child in such a home from the get go, and they have absolutely no choice in the matter is unfair at the very least.
My point is that there is absolutely no reason that any child should be placed in a home that is not a mom and dad. There are far too many married, heterosexual couples out there waiting to parent. There is no need to look to singles or homosexual couples.
Let’s try to give these kids the best—study after study has concluded that the best home environment is for kids to be in a stable home with a mom and dad. They need both–a mom AND a dad. Why are adoptive kids any different than kids born into a family? They should have the opportunity to have the best home environment. That’s the whole point of adoption—that the kids get a better home than what birthmom can offer.
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Giannawannabe
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As an aside…it is so clear to me, as my dh and I raise our children, why it is so important to have a mom and dad. Each of us bring a different perspective to parenting. A feminine and masculine perspective. In single parent households, only one perspective is presented. In a gay parent family, the perspectives are confused–a man who is feminine, a woman who is masculine. The problems this can cause may not be evident for years. I know my brothers suffered in not having Dad around during their pre-teen and teen years. I have insecurities related to not having a Dad around. My old neighbor has a lesbian mom and lived with various lovers. I can not even begin to tell you the problems that this woman has, as well as her siblings. My question again is this…why, from the get go, not give an adoptive child the best start. Why put them in a situation that has proven not to be the best when there are many other homes that are available to provide the best.
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estesbob
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Single parenthood is the norm because of the high divorce rate. There is also a problem that our culture has glorified single parenthood. We had this problem in counseling young women(mostly high school students) to place their child for adoption. In their schools the woman who had an abortion or parented their child was a courageous women and was admired by her peers. A woman who placed her child for adoption was considered a slut and ostracized.
We offered a wide variety of support for those who chose not to abort(and we also , BTW, offered support groups for those who chose to abort). We always were a little concerned that we too were encouraging single parenthood but felt the women had to be helped regardless.
I witnessed a great success story recently-a 15 year old girl pregnant and torn about what to do. Even though a couple was lined up to adopt her child she backed out after the birth of the child. We started praying for her and the child incessantly. Three weeks later she decided that parenting the child was not fair to either her or her child. The joy she bought into the lives of the adoptive parents was unbelievable. In my book if you want to see a courageous woman you need look no farther than her
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Liberalsaved
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I’m taking lieberal as an insult!
Kidding.
Well, I agree with you on nearly every single count, so there’s that.
As for the argument of selfishness, it could be argued that it is selfish to raise a child to be a strict catholic. Or to raise them to be an atheist or a buddhist or a whatever, depending on what you are. Or to raise them as a nature nut so they can go on your hikes with you later in life.
It’s impossible to raise a child without some form of selfishness seeping in. It’s almost never intentional, I think, unless the person is a bad parent. For this reason, I think that homosexuals, either single or paired, or a single non-homosexual, can make a good parent OR a bad parent, the same way a heterosexual couple can. I know a lot of heterosexual couples who stayed together even though they grew to hate each other. That wasn’t healthy for their kids in ANY of my encountered situations, even though it’s supposedly the right thing to do.
This is why I am very Liberal on a lot of social issues; because ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. I have never espoused my ideological beleifs as a solution to everything, because all life is flipping a coin and hoping it lands heads up. It’s simply the way I do things, and really, anyone who says “THIS is what needs to change” or “THIS needs to happen” miss the point that there will always be lots of problems no matter what you do. It’s part of being human. If there were no problems and no heartbreak, how would you measure ice cream on a summer night with little mosquito stars flickering around you? Or a pick-up game of football in Autumn leaves between a group of friends? How would we ever know what the good was if we spend all our time trying to “fix” an unfixable bad?
You live the way you want to, and let others live the way they want to. That’s the secret to happiness. It’s so obvious it’s a wonder more people haven’t figured it out.
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estesbob
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So should not a CATHOLIC adoption agency be allowed to make ruels based on the tenants of our faith?
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Liberalsaved
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Same as a school, yes. I’m getting into a broader issue without really thinking about it, I do that a lot.
But you cannot deny there are plenty of people from religions not just Christian that want to impose their views everywhere, and not just in countries that are already theocracies. It is, I think, a growing problem and fuel behind much terrorism, both domestic and abroad.
We live in troubled times, that’s the only definite conclusion to these kinds of debates. That’s why I hate being divided the way the country is right now. We’ll hurt ourselves going that way in the long run.
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mpeacock
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To liberalsaved—AMEN.
Come on people, I’ve been reading this thread and most of you are the most small-minded and bigoted people–you should be ashamed to call yourselves the children of a loving God.
I’ve been a natural mother of 4 and the adoptive mother of one and know all kinds of families and the good and successful families have one thing in common----LOVE!
Isn’t that what we are taught- to love one another? Not just those that fit our personal political/sexual/moral code?
Get your brains out of your pants and grow hearts!
Come on people, I’ve been reading this thread and most of you are the most small-minded and bigoted people–you should be ashamed to call yourselves the children of a loving God.
I’ve been a natural mother of 4 and the adoptive mother of one and know all kinds of families and the good and successful families have one thing in common----LOVE!
Isn’t that what we are taught- to love one another? Not just those that fit our personal political/sexual/moral code?
Get your brains out of your pants and grow hearts!
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estesbob
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If aadhering the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church make me small minded and bigoted so be it.To liberalsaved—AMEN.
Come on people, I’ve been reading this thread and most of you are the most small-minded and bigoted people–you should be ashamed to call yourselves the children of a loving God.
I’ve been a natural mother of 4 and the adoptive mother of one and know all kinds of families and the good and successful families have one thing in common----LOVE!
Isn’t that what we are taught- to love one another? Not just those that fit our personal political/sexual/moral code?
Get your brains out of your pants and grow hearts!
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Liberalsaved
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I think the problem may be lack of exposure to other ways. I, for instance, have more Atheist friends than I can count and a few who are Buddhist. A comment that House was an accurate Atheist character got my goat becasue I know they are as diverse as any other people are. I know people who go to multiple churches because they want to get the broad HUMAN experience. I’d do it, but options are limited around here.To liberalsaved—AMEN.
Come on people, I’ve been reading this thread and most of you are the most small-minded and bigoted people–you should be ashamed to call yourselves the children of a loving God.
I’ve been a natural mother of 4 and the adoptive mother of one and know all kinds of families and the good and successful families have one thing in common----LOVE!
Isn’t that what we are taught- to love one another? Not just those that fit our personal political/sexual/moral code?
Get your brains out of your pants and grow hearts!
It’s wonderful knowing that the world is as beautiful when it’s messing up as when it is getting it right.
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estesbob
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KUMBAYAH MY FRIEND,KUMBAYAH…
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Liberalsaved
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I actually beleive that. Lots better than forcible conversion or refusing to deal with those who don’t agree with you.
And that was all so I could say “Nobody wants the Spanish Inquisition”.
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estesbob
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So adhering to the teachings of the Church is akin to the Spainish inquistion??? Go figure
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/6/6_15_11.gif Happy St Davids Day!
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