Mass. Catholic School Won't Admit Lesbians' Son

[mandateman]

the modern view on homosexual tolerance would make angels puke.

St Thomas Aquinas was the Christian writer who first developed the concept of tolerance. He concluded that sins like homosexuality, adultery, prostitution, alcoholism, drug dependance etc are choices not genetic faults. He said that you could not remove a defective gene to rid ourselves of these sins because they begin in the will of the person not in the genetic structure. Then he simply states that since the sin can not be gotten rid of we are best to just tolerate the sinner but we are still supposed to despise the sin. These types of sin are hideous to God.

From the bible, “God hateth a fornicator.” that is someone who has sex outside of marriage. This is strong language for such a loving God. God cannot stand sin He cannot understand sin. The sinner he who is in a state of mortal sin is dead as far as God is concerned and any act even if he or she was to shed their blood for Christ has no value to Him.

I think sometimes this is what has lead to the modern facination with zombies. Because if we take this teaching serious the vast majority of humans especially in North America are zombies to God. Jesus spoke of the walking tombstones. You must be in a state of sanctifying grace to be considered alive to God. Then everything you do has great significance and value to God.

Another falicy is that we are all children of God. We are all created by God but technically to be a child of God one must be Baptized.

 

[elts1956]

Yes to all 3 Who better to determine that than a bishop? Maybe if the Pope weighed in you would agree if he did right?

Ah yes, any misguided, liberal, progressive Bishop can make a correct decision on any and all things. Give me a break! The Boston Diocese isn’t well known for its conservatism. I do hope for the sake of the Parish, they do get a Pre nup with these people as was suggested by one poster. As sure as there is still green grass on earth, we will hear,in the near future, about this couple being subjected to “discrimination” when the child comes home asks which woman is the Daddy and which is the Mommy.

 

[elts1956]

Yes to all 3 Who better to determine that than a bishop? Maybe if the Pope weighed in you would agree if he did right?

So, how are you going to quantify how much money only Catholics pay? Or are you saying it’s ok to discriminate against these women because thy haven’t paid enough? Also, I don’t think Catholics can play the victim here, they are the aggressor. Maybe if these women went into the schools office and started beating heads in then I could see your point.

What is your point? That lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to raise a child or send them to a school they help pay for because Catholics don’t think so?

Continue to insult me and i’m going to stop talking to you. It’s not very constructive

You’re talking about how Christians supposedly won some morality battle over homosexuality. Elaborate.

That might have been the message but politics might be the answer atheism.about.com/library/glossary/western/bldef_constantine.htm With regards to Roman homosexuality, they regulated and criminalized a fair bit of it on their own en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lex_Scantinia While Christians later had some influence around 350AD, before that they couldn’t do much.

Acknowledging that you’re gay and acting on those behaviors are two separate things.

If someone you love asks you to help raise a child, but decides for moral reasons, to abstain from an overt physical relationship with you does it matter if you’re gay?

Being gay is not an immoral act even by Catholic standards. How can you cast sin on someone for something outside of their control? Simply, don’t ask don’t tell is willingness to stay stupid, ignorant of truth that gays are good people trying to do the right thing. I know we’re still a young nation but we need to hurry and grow up.

Being gay isn’t the sin Lynx. Acting on it is. Get it straight once and for all.

 

[WatchingMedia]

How much money does the Catholic Church save the American State and Federal Taxpayers by educating children ?

I know the cost to educate one child differs from State to State, and is different between elementary, junior and senior students ?

How much does the Catholic Church save the American taxpayer by donating dollars and people to social service charities?

 

[Zatzat]

the modern view on homosexual tolerance would make angels puke.

Is that how the Boston Archdiocese worded it in their press release?

" Despite our policy at not discriminating against the children of same sex parents, we are certain that the modern view on homosexual tolerance would make angels puke."

On another note, your Christian angels are said to be pure spirit and I would suspect, quite incapable of expelling the contents from stomachs that they don’t even have.

 

[Zatzat]

about this couple being subjected to “discrimination” when the child comes home asks which woman is the Daddy and which is the Mommy.

How is that a problem? You explain that Fathers are men and Mothers are women. If it’s two female same sex parents, you explain that both parents are females and therefor, there isn’t a father.

Why do single mothers or single fathers tell their children when asked ’ where’s mommy?’

It’s only a problem if you want it to be a problem…evidently, you do.

 

[Polycarp1]

the modern view on homosexual tolerance would make angels puke.

St Thomas Aquinas was the Christian writer who first developed the concept of tolerance. He concluded that sins like homosexuality, adultery, prostitution, alcoholism, drug dependance etc are choices not genetic faults. He said that you could not remove a defective gene to rid ourselves of these sins because they begin in the will of the person not in the genetic structure. Then he simply states that since the sin can not be gotten rid of we are best to just tolerate the sinner but we are still supposed to despise the sin. These types of sin are hideous to God.

From the bible, “God hateth a fornicator.” that is someone who has sex outside of marriage. This is strong language for such a loving God. God cannot stand sin He cannot understand sin. The sinner he who is in a state of mortal sin is dead as far as God is concerned and any act even if he or she was to shed their blood for Christ has no value to Him.

I think sometimes this is what has lead to the modern facination with zombies. Because if we take this teaching serious the vast majority of humans especially in North America are zombies to God. Jesus spoke of the walking tombstones. You must be in a state of sanctifying grace to be considered alive to God. Then everything you do has great significance and value to God.

Another falicy is that we are all children of God. We are all created by God but technically to be a child of God one must be Baptized.

Angels can’t puke, they are spirits and don’t have bodies.
God understands sin completely.
St Thomas Aquinas knew about genetics?
If people with mortal sin are dead as far as God is concerned, why did he send his Son to die for them? God hates sin but loves sinners (us).

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Might be a set-up to sue.

That’s what I think, but then I was called paranoid.

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[ALLGIRLS]

How is that a problem? You explain that Fathers are men and Mothers are women. If it’s two female same sex parents, you explain that both parents are females and therefor, there isn’t a father.

Why do single mothers or single fathers tell their children when asked ’ where’s mommy?’

It’s only a problem if you want it to be a problem…evidently, you do.

Speaking as a former single parent whose child’s father abandoned us, when my daughter asked why she didn’t have a dad, I told her the truth, in the gentlest way possible (i.e., I didn’t badmouth her biological dad or make it sound like he didn’t want her). This was when she was very young, like 4 (that’s when she noticed that all the kids in her daycare except her had dads and moms). This child will likely be lied to: it is impossible for 2 females or 2 males to be parents, and EVERYBODY has a mother AND a father, even if one of them isn’t in the picture. Although I don’t normally agree w/ homosexual adoption, in this instance, I hope this kid was adopted, because that will be the easiest way to hear the truth: “your biological mother and father were unable to take care of you, so they were very generous and gave you to us so we could love and raise you.” If not adopted, then the child of one of the women from a natural relationship b/f she decided she was a lesbian. The hardest thing will be if they manipulated him into existence via sperm donation and/or IVF. (how does a homosexual couple then explain sex to their child? They can’t say that’s what brought him/her into existence. In fact, they have to explain why having sex w/ some people can make babies-so you have to be careful and "use protection -and why doing it w/ other people-their situation-doesn’t, and you have to involve 3rd parties to get a baby. What a mess! Poor kid).

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Redtown]

Originally Posted by DianeGee
Might be a set-up to sue.

Not likely. Massachusetts law specifically exempts church agencies, including church schools, from the non-discrimination laws.

We have several gay parents in our parish who send their children to the parish school. Their reasons are first, for the superior education, and second, for the overall Catholic Christian values taught. They have presented no other “agenda”.

 

[Zatzat]

What a mess! Poor kid).

In Christ,

Ellen

I agree…’ poor kid ’ in having to face historically entrenched and very negative stereotypes regarding her parents.

 

[Zatzat]

The hardest thing will be if they manipulated him into existence via sperm donation and/or IVF. (how does a homosexual couple then explain sex to their child?

How about this…first a secular explanation;

“If it wasn’t for us and IVF, you wouldn’t exist.”

( Surely you’re not suggesting that a child would choose non-existance over coming into existence via IVF? )

Then there’s the religious explanation they could give;

All life comes from God and God doesn’t make mistakes. So, if God didn’t want you to be born via IVF, you would not have been born. You were born, so God wanted you to be born!

Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Jeremiah 1:5
“ Before I formed you in the womb I knew you;
Before you were born I sanctified you;
I ordained you a prophet to the nations.”

Secular or religious explanations…problem solved.

 

[elts1956]

How is that a problem? You explain that Fathers are men and Mothers are women. If it’s two female same sex parents, you explain that both parents are females and therefor, there isn’t a father.

Why do single mothers or single fathers tell their children when asked ’ where’s mommy?’

It’s only a problem if you want it to be a problem…evidently, you do.

Okay, the “Catholic” teacher tells the children in her class that a “normal” family consists of a Mother and a Father. Mother=female Father = male??? Get it? And yes, to me it is a very great problem.

 

[elts1956]

How is that a problem? You explain that Fathers are men and Mothers are women. If it’s two female same sex parents, you explain that both parents are females and therefor, there isn’t a father.

Why do single mothers or single fathers tell their children when asked ’ where’s mommy?’

It’s only a problem if you want it to be a problem…evidently, you do.

I agree…’ poor kid ’ in having to face historically entrenched and very negative stereotypes regarding her parents.

Yep, negative, entrenched and mostly moral. And these are not negative “sterotypes” being promulgated by straights, but only telling the truth as regards unhealthy relationships stated to be sinful by the Catholic Church.

 

[elts1956]

Not likely. Massachusetts law specifically exempts church agencies, including church schools, from the non-discrimination laws.

We have several gay parents in our parish who send their children to the parish school. Their reasons are first, for the superior education, and second, for the overall Catholic Christian values taught. They have presented no other “agenda”.

So this is why Catholic Charities of Boston closed their doors to their adoption department rather than being forced, by Mass. law to advocate and support adopting children to a gay or lesbian couple. NOW I understand.

 

[elts1956]

Not likely. Massachusetts law specifically exempts church agencies, including church schools, from the non-discrimination laws.

We have several gay parents in our parish who send their children to the parish school. Their reasons are first, for the superior education, and second, for the overall Catholic Christian values taught. They have presented no other “agenda”.

No, I’m not going to let you derail the topic to try to get yourself off the hook. If you’re honestly interested in the truth of the Crusades and the Inquisitions, there are plenty of excellent links and articles on this site.
I said nothing about boasting. Publicly identifying oneself as “LGBT” as if there was nothing wrong with it, is morally wrong according to the Catholic Church.
Believe whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says its OK.
Say whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says it doesn’t matter.
You claimed that the Catholic Church taught that certain things are moral. I merely piointed out you are incorrect. What you or I or anyone else believes is another question. My point is tghat the Catholic Church vehemently denies this claim. The Church doesn’t say that it’s immoral for married people with SSAD to procreate andf raise children. On the contrary. But if they identify themselves as “gay” then that would at the very least raise a question as to their commitment to chastity.
As I said, by giving scandal to the child and depriving him of his natural God-given utterly basic human right to be procreated and raised by married parents.Please begin with Catholicism 101. The Catholic Church produced the Bible, but she is not a “Bible-based church”. Maybe not from your personal standpoint. Plenty of people see that it matters very much from a secular standpoint. A child’s natural God-given utterly basic human rights to his inniocence and to be procreated and raised by married parents, are prior to and independent of any religious considerations.

Alright then, I won’t. Please enlighten me as to what really happened. What brought Christianity into the realm of power it is today?

Assuming that’s true, you’re assuming they’re boastful of that fact.

I believe being transgendered is ok as long as, once again, you remain chaste. This was a topic in the Apologetics forum a little while ago.

I would say that every child has the right to be raised by caring, intelligent, competent parents. One’s sexuality should not matter.

Whose moral law? Your’s? Mine? Catholic? Islamic? Morals are subjective to the individual, but you’re welcome to think otherwise. So, what if they’re gay and married?

Right, and how does a gay parent do any of that to their child? Is it by proximity? Is sin going to jump off of them onto the child? Is it when they sit down to dinner to talk about their day? Maybe it’s when the child sees both of them hold hands. From a Catholic standpoint, what in scripture lets you know this? From a secular standpoint it doesn’t even matter.

That’s their right as long as they don’t accept tax dollars. Otherwise I don’t think they get to make that rule. So, where exactly has the church come out and rejected children of gay parents from a Catholic school. I’d like to see the scripture or some official’s stance on this.

That’s BS, I don’t care how you justify it. If you take government money you need to play the secularist game, otherwise you’re pathetic. Apparently they’re good enough to take money from homosexuals, just not their kids I see the lessons on theft were avoided at this school.

Whose moral law? Your’s? Mine? Catholic? Islamic? Morals are subjective to the individual, but you’re welcome to think otherwise. So, what if they’re gay and married?

Morals are subjective??? ALL morality??? To me discussing morality with someone who does not believe there are MORAL ABSOLUTES in the cosmos, directly given to humans by God is like trying to put jello on the wall. There are Moral Absolutes that guide us and PROTECT us; if we ignore or disobey these, we are in a state of MORTAL (deadly to the soul) sin. The only people I see who are truly pathetic are those who build their morality on shifting sand.

 

[elts1956]

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

That is a shame. In my day long long ago in a galaxy far far away, if one attended a Catholic School one was taught “Catholic” no matter their variance in religion. Just goes to show how some priests and other “teachers” of the Faith have changed their views of what is Truth.

 

[elts1956]

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

They should if they’re taking public money, money in which gays, muslims, christians and even atheists pay in to. Why should they be allowed to take public money then discriminate against the public?

I would beg to differ, and to an extent, its been told that schools lose a portion of funding for rejecting individuals. I would prefer they go farther and reject all funding. When you begin discriminating against the people that pay you then they either shouldn’t have to pay or they should get their money back. Otherwise, we’re talking about theft.

Talk about a foolish loaded question. Look, that school is pathetic, a lesbian’s dollar may be green enough but apparently their child isn’t up to par? PATHETIC THEFT, and as per the quote below I guess this means they will not be inheriting the kingdom of God any time soon.

As for your quotes there are several issues,

1. The assumption that one has the choice to be gay or straight.
2. The meaning of “lie with”. Is this sex? Is this literal?

Assuming we are doing a literal translation, this says that gays should be put to death Who in their right mind would follow this philosophy?

“I would prefer they go farther and reject all funding. " So far your thinking on this is the only item I agree with.” A lot of nonsense would be done away with if this were so.
"

 

[elts1956]

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

They should if they’re taking public money, money in which gays, muslims, christians and even atheists pay in to. Why should they be allowed to take public money then discriminate against the public?

I would beg to differ, and to an extent, its been told that schools lose a portion of funding for rejecting individuals. I would prefer they go farther and reject all funding. When you begin discriminating against the people that pay you then they either shouldn’t have to pay or they should get their money back. Otherwise, we’re talking about theft.

Talk about a foolish loaded question. Look, that school is pathetic, a lesbian’s dollar may be green enough but apparently their child isn’t up to par? PATHETIC THEFT, and as per the quote below I guess this means they will not be inheriting the kingdom of God any time soon.

As for your quotes there are several issues,

1. The assumption that one has the choice to be gay or straight.
2. The meaning of “lie with”. Is this sex? Is this literal?

Assuming we are doing a literal translation, this says that gays should be put to death Who in their right mind would follow this philosophy?

Your false assumption is that being born gay is a sin. If that is the case then God gave them sin, and that doesn’t sound like God to me.

Accepted and normalcy are two different things. Assuming homosexuality was the norm, cultures would die off due to a lack of new members.

What are you even talking about? What am I picking and choosing or are you making stuff up? You do have to accept everything. There are people who are born with attractions to weird things. Here’s a man marrying a cat jezebel.com/5529873/german-man-marries-dying-cat Life is weird, messy and obscene on occasion, deal with it properly.

Deal with it? How far out do you want to go? These aren’t examples of mental illness? If this is normalcy, then I prefer to be just a wee bit crazy.

 

[elts1956]

In what places do Catholic schools receive government funding in the U.S. (I know they do in Canada) Here in Missouri we don’t, except in rare circumstances where a Catholic school will provide summer school classes to public school kids, and then they have to cover all the crucifixes and statues! NonCatholic kids know they’ll be going to Mass and religion class (they don’t receive any sacraments, obviously), there’s no “alternative curriculum”. (and they’re also allowed to refused admission to anyone they want, for whatever reason).

I also don’t know why they can’t find a liberal protestant school to send the kid to. And I find it laughable that anyone believes these women may be living chastely! They live together and describe themselves as “married”! They’re not claiming to be just roommates!

In Christ,

Ellen

They have to cover the crucifixes and statues??? Where in MO law does it say that??? That is outrageous. They should refuse to have the classes.