Mass. Catholic School Won't Admit Lesbians' Son

[browser1]

Whose moral law? Your’s? Mine? Catholic? Islamic? Morals are subjective to the individual, but you’re welcome to think otherwise. So, what if they’re gay and married?

You’re wrong, morals are not subjective to an individual and do not change on a whim.

That’s their right as long as they don’t accept tax dollars. Otherwise I don’t think they get to make that rule. So, where exactly has the church come out and rejected children of gay parents from a Catholic school. I’d like to see the scripture or some official’s stance on this.

That’s BS, I don’t care how you justify it. If you take government money you need to play the secularist game, otherwise you’re pathetic. Apparently they’re good enough to take money from homosexuals, just not their kids I see the lessons on theft were avoided at this school.

Why should Catholic schools not be funded by the govt? I’m Catholic and I’m as tax payer. I’m sure many of us would like our money going to Catholic schools rather than into funding abortions, like it currently does in both our countries. How is that fair toward me?

 

[lynx]

That’s exactly what the Church says. And in this case there are very good reasons. Like I told you earlier, study Catholicism 101. The Catholic Church produced the Bible, but she is not a “bible-based church”. Christ gave St Peter the authority to free Catholics from the Levirate laws, and he used it.

Other than that God does not approve for some ***arbitrary ***reason, there is no reason to be anti-gay. But, I could be mistaken on the reason being arbitrary. Please let me know what the reason is if you know it.

 

[eureka525]

Wowbagger:

All that being said… **do we not have an obligation to educate and to evangelize, most especially to the innocent children trapped in toxic situations like this one? ** “Let the children come unto me” and all that jazz? Is it fair to the child to turn her away because of her parents’ sins? Certainly, we are protecting the child in the short-run from the emotional pain her parents to which her parents so callously decided to subject her. But are we really protecting the child in the long run?

Most certainly we do!!

Thank you for your post, you have said much more elaborately and eloquently than what I began to say in an earlier post (somewhere in pages 2-7… haha)

 

[lynx]

You’re wrong, morals are not subjective to an individual and do not change on a whim.

That is certainly your opinion. I would argue that since morals are different depending on your culture, that we are not instilled with morality at birth, rather it is a learned process.

Why should Catholic schools not be funded by the govt?

You already know my position but i’ll say it again. Getting public money for a service, then discriminating against the public which pays you is tantamount to theft.

I’m Catholic and I’m as tax payer. I’m sure many of us would like our money going to Catholic schools rather than into funding abortions, like it currently does in both our countries. How is that fair toward me?

If it makes you feel any better I wish you could opt out. I wouldn’t want anyone paying for a service they didn’t want or need.

 

[Polycarp1]

So, how are you going to quantify how much money only Catholics pay? Or are you saying it’s ok to discriminate against these women because thy haven’t paid enough? Also, I don’t think Catholics can play the victim here, they are the aggressor. Maybe if these women went into the schools office and started beating heads in then I could see your point.

What is your point? That lesbians shouldn’t be allowed to raise a child or send them to a school they help pay for because Catholics don’t think so?

Being gay is not an immoral act even by Catholic standards. How can you cast sin on someone for something outside of their control? Simply, don’t ask don’t tell is willingness to stay stupid, ignorant of truth that gays are good people trying to do the right thing. I know we’re still a young nation but we need to hurry and grow up.

My point about Catholics paying taxes was in response to the suggestion that because public money is used to pay education costs that Catholic institutions should be obligated to follow the same rules as public schools. Catholic tax payers pay for Catholic schools and more. Catholics are not the aggressor here. They are not trying to subject anyone to anything. It is the gay couple who want to send a child into a situation where they may be hurt emotionally in order to further a gay rights cause. You can’t tell me that they did this honestly believing that it wouldn’t cause controversy. Although I am now rethinking this issue as maybe it would be better if the child was taught the truth about the gay couples relationship and why they really sent him to a Catholic school…

You are right that being gay is in itself not a sin. Homosexual acts are. Being gay may be out of someones control but committing homosexual sex acts are not.

 

[Petergee]

Other than that God does not approve for some ***arbitrary ***reason, there is no reason to be anti-gay. But, I could be mistaken on the reason being arbitrary. Please let me know what the reason is if you know it.

It’s explained quite clearly and concisely in the article linked earlier in this thread on the sins crying to Heaven for vengeance.

 

[Petergee]

That is certainly your opinion. I would argue that since morals are different depending on your culture, that we are not instilled with morality at birth, rather it is a learned process.

Please respect the right of Catholics not to have your opinion, which we think is insanely illogical, compelled onto us and our schools.

You already know my position but i’ll say it again. Getting public money for a service, then discriminating against the public which pays you is tantamount to theft.

If it makes you feel any better I wish you could opt out. I wouldn’t want anyone paying for a service they didn’t want or need.

You seem to misunderstand what taxes are. We ask our Governments to do certain things for us. To do this they need money. To get this money they raise taxes on certain things. The taxation process is an entirely different process from the Govenment spending of the money. If we all were to to have the tax money collected from us spent only on the things we agree with, we may as well not have taxes at all and just each of us give the money directly and much more efficiently to those works and projects which each of us happens to like or agree with. But we agree to become citizens of a country, and one of the duties is to pay the taxes its government lawfully demands from us. Another very important duty is to allow freedom of religion and especially to let churches perform their good works such as education without hindrance from the state. Naturally this involves discrimination against those who hold beliefs or practice activities contrary to the doctrines of that religion.

 

[Santi2]

"The Boston archdiocese said it learned of St. Paul’s decision late Tuesday. In her statement, O’Neill said the archdiocese doesn’t bar children of same-sex parents from attending Catholic schools, and that it will develop a policy in the coming weeks to make that clear.

The same article carries a caveat which you overlooked. O’Neill also said that:

…"the schools expect parents to understand "that the teachings of the Church are an important component of the curriculum and are part of the students’ educational experience."

 

[Jermosh]

In what places do Catholic schools receive government funding in the U.S. (I know they do in Canada) Here in Missouri we don’t, except in rare circumstances where a Catholic school will provide summer school classes to public school kids, and then they have to cover all the crucifixes and statues! NonCatholic kids know they’ll be going to Mass and religion class (they don’t receive any sacraments, obviously), there’s no “alternative curriculum”. (and they’re also allowed to refused admission to anyone they want, for whatever reason).

I also don’t know why they can’t find a liberal protestant school to send the kid to. And I find it laughable that anyone believes these women may be living chastely! They live together and describe themselves as “married”! They’re not claiming to be just roommates!

In Christ,

Ellen

They can receive grants and tax deductible donations. I use to volunteer allot at the school, and my company would pay my school $20/hr for my volunteer work. One of the caveats is that they cannot be discriminatory based on race or creed.

 

[Jermosh]

This is ridiculous. Why would one send their child to a Catholic school but insist that their child be taught Jewish beliefs?

This goes back to the fact that everyone thinks that they are entitled to everything. If you want your child to be taught Hindu then you should be sending your child to a Hindu school and not a Muslim school.

These women knew exactly what was going to happen when they tried to send their child to a Catholic school. They are not fooling anyone. And I think it is board line child abuse to put the child through this on purpose.

Catholic religous orders have been teaching non-catholic/christians for a long time, some orders almost specialize in it.
That said, people usually do not send their kids to Catholic School to learn Catholicism, they usually send them for the high education from my experiance.

 

[Petergee]

They can receive grants and tax deductible donations. I use to volunteer allot at the school, and my company would pay my school $20/hr for my volunteer work. One of the caveats is that they cannot be discriminatory based on race or creed.

What would be the point of having a “Catholic” school which did not discriminate based on creed?

“Discriminate” is not a dirty word as the PC police would have you believe. In a very real sense, to discriminate is what makes us human.

 

[elts1956]

Good point, but I’m sure there are other students in Catholic schools who have parents who don’t reinforce the doctrine at home. I myself was in Catholic school until age 12, at which time we moved, and I am the child of an atheist and a Baptist and attended a Presbyterian church. I know that’s not really the same thing but the point is that I’m sure plenty of children aren’t necessarily getting the right ‘follow-up’ at home.

I suppose though it would be quite difficult to be a young child and hear outright in class that your parents’ relationship is condemned by the Church…

“I suppose though it would be quite difficult to be a young child and hear outright in class that your parents’ relationship is condemned by the Church…”

That is exactly the point. If the Catholic School accepted this child and later he found out his “parents”, using the term loosely, were not in compliance with the Doctrines and beliefs of the Church, they could sue the school.

Also your instance of upbringing is totally different from that of a child who is being raised by people whose lifestyle is in direct defiance of not only Catholic Church teaching, but also of what should also be all Christian teaching. (Which sadly isn’t the case.) Politcal correctness, tolerance and all that balderdash you know.

 

[elts1956]

Good point, but I’m sure there are other students in Catholic schools who have parents who don’t reinforce the doctrine at home. I myself was in Catholic school until age 12, at which time we moved, and I am the child of an atheist and a Baptist and attended a Presbyterian church. I know that’s not really the same thing but the point is that I’m sure plenty of children aren’t necessarily getting the right ‘follow-up’ at home.

I suppose though it would be quite difficult to be a young child and hear outright in class that your parents’ relationship is condemned by the Church…

There is no such thing as “the child of a lesbian couple”. Two lesbians “raising” a child is despicable institutionalised child abuse, worse than any one-off act of a pedophile. The school has a right to that of course, but if I ran the school I would enrol the boy and make sure that the teachers ensure that he learns and understands and remind him every day that same-sex sexual activity is a grave sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance.In the long run the world will see that it was only the Catholic Church which had the courage to stand up against such evil acts.

“…make sure that the teachers ensure that he learns and understands and remind him every day that same-sex sexual activity is a grave sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance”.
"

So you would let the sins of these adults fall on the head of a child? Kids are smart, if he heard true Catholic teaching every day, I think he would soon “get it”, maybe not “keep it”, but he would certainly have questions.

 

[Petergee]

“…make sure that the teachers ensure that he learns and understands and remind him every day that same-sex sexual activity is a grave sin crying out to Heaven for vengeance”.
"

So you would let the sins of these adults fall on the head of a child? Kids are smart, if he heard true Catholic teaching every day, I think he would soon “get it”, maybe not “keep it”, but he would certainly have questions.

Yes, that’s what I’m saying. But it’s the two women here who are letting their sins fall on the head of the child by using him as a political pawn in such a disgraceful way, apparently to try to bully the school into not teaching Catholic doctrine and truth.

Or to put it another way, the principal should say to them, “yes we have a place for the boy here. But you do understand, don’t you, that we teach the Catholic faith here, which includes the fact that sexual activity between persons of the same sex is a very grave sin which cries out to Heaven for vengeance?”, and ask them to sign a declaration that they understand this before enrolling the boy.

 

[Zatzat]

right thing according to who, a possibly misguided bishop, you, society. you must not do what mammon deems is right, but what God deems is right.

Either your views are misguided or the Bishop of the Boston diocese is misguided.

Hmmmm…

 

[Petergee]

Either your views are misguided or the Bishop of the Boston diocese is misguided.

Hmmmm…

The Archbishop of Denver, for one, says the opposite. As the Pope has not to my knowledge made a ruling on this specific issue, neither may accuse the other of acting contrary to the Catholic faith.

 

[Petergee]

Either your views are misguided or the Bishop of the Boston diocese is misguided.

Hmmmm…

The Bishop of the Boston diocese has said nothing ion the matter. The diocesan official who spoke to the media did not say that the bishop says that it’s OK for a lesbian “couple” to enrol “their” child in a Catholic school. He said that the diocese does not yet have a diocese-wide policy on the question and so it’s up to the discretion of each parish priest to rule on the matter for schools in his parish.

 

[Redtown]

I’m not going to debate on this thread one way or the other, but I will offer this factual clarification.

originally posted by Petergee

:
The Bishop of the Boston diocese has said nothing ion the matter. The diocesan official who spoke to the media did not say that the bishop says that it’s OK for a lesbian “couple” to enrol “their” child in a Catholic school. He said that the diocese does not yet have a diocese-wide policy on the question and so it’s up to the discretion of each parish priest to rule on the matter for schools in his parish.

From the Boston Globe article:
O’Neill said the archdiocese doesn’t bar children of same-sex parents from attending Catholic schools, and that it will develop a policy in the coming weeks to make that clear. Terry Donilon, a spokesman for the archdiocese, said local pastors have autonomy to run their parishes within basic church rules, but the archdiocese can set new policy when something needs to be clarified – as in this case – and pastors are expected to follow it.
boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/13/mass_church_to_help_find_school_for_gays_son_1273796899/#end

It’s clear that the Archdiocese is developing a systematic non-discrimination policy on this issue and that “pastors are expected to follow it.”

Second, there is NO WAY the Superintendent of Archdiocese schools and the chief spokesman for the Archdiocese are taking these actions without the full consent of Cardinal Sean O’Malley, Archbishop of Boston.

 

[Redtown]

Here is the direct link to the Archdiocese of Boston website:

“The Archdiocese does not prohibit children of same sex parents from attending Catholic schools. We will work in the coming weeks to develop a policy to eliminate any misunderstandings in the future.”

bostoncatholic.org/Utility/News-And-Press/Content.aspx?id=17878

 

[Redtown]

And another aspect to this story:

The Catholic Schools Foundation, the leading provider of scholarships to low-income Catholic school students in Greater Boston, issued a letter to administrators of local Catholic schools yesterday warning that it would not subsidize tuition at any school with a discriminatory admissions policy.

boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2010/05/14/archdiocese_to_help_banned_student/

PS: Mass. state law exempts church and religious agencies from non-discrimination laws, so these actions by the Archdiocese and Catholic Schools Foundation are entirely voluntary.