Mass of Creation- Revised

  • Thread starter Thread starter ChristisRisen32
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
TrueLight said:
Let me see if I can put it into words.

It sounds bland and not conducive to worship. I honestly could not see myself going to mass and singing those pieces.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Personally, I love the Gloria. During my Confirmation(Praise be God) at the Easter Vigil this year, when the lights came on and it played I was nearly in tears. Our parish does it a lot better than how it sounds on the video. No excessive instruments.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
I just don’t see the big deal with repeating “Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to people of good will.” At worst, we ponder that a little more. I love the chants too but sadly my parish doesn’t do those so this is the best option. In my opinion, at least. I’m still learning fully about proper liturgical practices so forgive me if I’m wrong. 🙂

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
Click to expand...
I don’t mean to be critical, but I have two things to respond with: 1) changing the Gloria is no small matter. 2) Even if it was a very small matter, what did the Lord say about this?

“He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much” Luke 16:10

Also, I would like to show you a few things about what the church has said about the liturgy. She is very clear that nothing is to be changed. Here were some of the ones I found, I’m sure there’s more:

•Sacrosanctum Concilium art. 22.3 (1963)
o Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

•Canon 846.1 (1983)
o The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them.

•Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1125 (1992)
o For this reason no sacramental rite may be modified or manipulated at the will of the minister or the community. Even the supreme authority of the Church may not change the liturgy arbitrarily, but only in obedience of faith and with religious respect for the mystery of the liturgy.

•General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 24 (2003)
o Nevertheless, the priest must remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.

•Redemptionis Sacramentum, nos. 31, 59 (2004)
o They ought not to detract from the profound meaning of their own ministry by corrupting the liturgical celebration either through alteration or omission, or through arbitrary additions.
o The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy

Look at that last one, especially. When priests make arbitrary additions or changes, the church says that they are “corrupting the liturgical celebration.” Sounds serious to me! The church does not take these things lightly, nor should we.

God Bless!
 
TrueLight said:
Let me see if I can put it into words.

It sounds bland and not conducive to worship. I honestly could not see myself going to mass and singing those pieces.
Click to expand...
Where is the fainting emoticon?

Wow.

I like the first comment on Youtube
I highly doubt this was even a valid mass
Click to expand...
Right on the money!

If this was the first mass I attended, I would not be on the path to full communion now.
 
TheMc said:
I don’t mean to be critical, but I have two things to respond with: 1) changing the Gloria is no small matter. 2) Even if it was a very small matter, what did the Lord say about this?

“He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much” Luke 16:10

Also, I would like to show you a few things about what the church has said about the liturgy. She is very clear that nothing is to be changed. Here were some of the ones I found, I’m sure there’s more:

•Sacrosanctum Concilium art. 22.3 (1963)
o Therefore no other person, even if he be a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

•Canon 846.1 (1983)
o The liturgical books approved by the competent authority are to be faithfully observed in the celebration of the sacraments; therefore no one on personal authority may add, remove or change anything in them.

•Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1125 (1992)
o For this reason no sacramental rite may be modified or manipulated at the will of the minister or the community. Even the supreme authority of the Church may not change the liturgy arbitrarily, but only in obedience of faith and with religious respect for the mystery of the liturgy.

•General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 24 (2003)
o Nevertheless, the priest must remember that he is the servant of the Sacred Liturgy and that he himself is not permitted, on his own initiative, to add, to remove, or to change anything in the celebration of Mass.

•Redemptionis Sacramentum, nos. 31, 59 (2004)
o They ought not to detract from the profound meaning of their own ministry by corrupting the liturgical celebration either through alteration or omission, or through arbitrary additions.
o The reprobated practice by which Priests, Deacons or the faithful here and there alter or vary at will the texts of the Sacred Liturgy that they are charged to pronounce, must cease. For in doing thus, they render the celebration of the Sacred Liturgy unstable, and not infrequently distort the authentic meaning of the Liturgy

Look at that last one, especially. When priests make arbitrary additions or changes, the church says that they are “corrupting the liturgical celebration.” Sounds serious to me! The church does not take these things lightly, nor should we.

God Bless!
Click to expand...
Hmmm. But they didn’t change anything. It’s simply repeated. That doesn’t change the meaning either. In fact, it reminds us the “thesis of the song”.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
Hmmm. But they didn’t change anything. It’s simply repeated. That doesn’t change the meaning either. In fact, it reminds us the “thesis of the song”.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
Click to expand...
It may be a small change, but they did make changes. If you’ll allow me to illustrate using the new translation:

This is what the church says (ok, will say) to sing:

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.
We praise you,
we bless you,
we adore you,
we glorify you,
we give you thanks for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father. .

Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world,
receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father,
have mercy on us.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.

When you finish singing “O God, almighty Father” the church tells us to then sing the words “Lord Jesus Christ, only …”. But with a responsorial gloria, we aren’t doing that.

Yes, it is a small point, but the church tells us clearly to be precise with the liturgy, and that nothing may be changed, however small.
 
TheMc said:
It may be a small change, but they did make changes. If you’ll allow me to illustrate using the new translation:

This is what the church says (ok, will say) to sing:

Glory to God in the highest,
and on earth peace to people of good will.
We praise you,
we bless you,
we adore you,
we glorify you,
we give you thanks for your great glory,
Lord God, heavenly King,
O God, almighty Father. .

Lord Jesus Christ, Only Begotten Son,
Lord God, Lamb of God, Son of the Father,
you take away the sins of the world,
have mercy on us;
you take away the sins of the world,
receive our prayer;
you are seated at the right hand of the Father,
have mercy on us.

For you alone are the Holy One,
you alone are the Lord,
you alone are the Most High,
Jesus Christ,
with the Holy Spirit,
in the glory of God the Father.
Amen.

When you finish singing “O God, almighty Father” the church tells us to then sing the words “Lord Jesus Christ, only …”. But with a responsorial gloria, we aren’t doing that.

Yes, it is a small point, but the church tells us clearly to be precise with the liturgy, and that nothing may be changed, however small.
Click to expand...
Hmm. I see your point. That does eliminate a lot of songs though that even repeat a phrase. “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest, Hosanna in the Highest” By your standard, that’s abuse.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
 
TheMc said:
. And the preface dialogue and preface is just lame, and should not be accompanied!
Click to expand...
Agreed. I thought that doing so was reprobated?:confused:

Seriously, we should just. go. back. to. Latin.
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
EP II? Luckily my priest just goes by the rubrics. We only use Mass of Creation for Gloria, Sanctus, Memorial Acclamation, Great Amen, and SOMETIMES “Lamb of God”. 🤷
Click to expand...
EP II is Eucharistic Prayer II. Here is the ICEL chant version of the revised version of it. And a recording.

It’s the shortest Eucharistic Prayer, and my least favorite. There are many others on CAF who agree with me on that. I don’t think it can’t be used, I just think it shouldn’t be used. At least not all the time.
 
JGMendes4049 said:
EP II is Eucharistic Prayer II. Here is the ICEL chant version of the revised version of it. And a recording.

It’s the shortest Eucharistic Prayer, and my least favorite. There are many others on CAF who agree with me on that. I don’t think it can’t be used, I just think it shouldn’t be used. At least not all the time.
Click to expand...
Oh okay I gotcha.
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
Hmmm. But they didn’t change anything. It’s simply repeated. That doesn’t change the meaning either. In fact, it reminds us the “thesis of the song”.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
Click to expand...
However, Haugen and those who compose these “responsorial Glorias” are tooling with the order of the official text of the Church. If you were to look at the Gloria, it has, for centuries, been chanted straight-through. The “responsorial Gloria” has no basis in tradition. This is a novelty that was introduced by composers in the 1970s.
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
Hmm. I see your point. That does eliminate a lot of songs though that even repeat a phrase. “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, Hosanna in the Highest, Hosanna in the Highest” By your standard, that’s abuse.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary,
Tony
Click to expand...
When we repeat things, we turn the text of the liturgy into a servant of the music and not the other way around.
 
Love_Divine said:
Agreed. I thought that doing so was reprobated?:confused:/QUOTE]

I have not been keeping on my technical language in this area, but in short, it is not allowed. 😃

*Redemptionis Sacramentum, no. 53,

While the Priest proclaims the Eucharistic Prayer “there should be no other prayers or singing, and the organ or other musical instruments should be silent"*
Click to expand...
 
ChristisRisen32 said:
Oh okay I gotcha.
Click to expand...
Good thread. Lots of comments.

Think you have been snowed by the “Latin” crowd. You’re just not Catholic enough if you don’t attend (only) the Extraordinary Form (EF).

Back to the 'Fifties!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top