Mass of the Angels

[Cat]

Why am I not surprised that everytime anyone post anything about Gregorian or a chant not in your wonderful language or should I say the language that should be the norm, Enlglish, you have to say something negative?

Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean that they are being negative. That’s what discussion is all about–the sharing of different ideas and opinions.

I am a different person than you and therefore my heart and soul are different, leading to different personal preferences. **I’ve stated several times in this thread (and others) that I respect the preferences of others and that I think it is good that the different Mass options are available to Catholics so that personal preferences can be honored. **

Just because I disagree with you doesn’t negate or denigrate YOUR personal preferences or make them any less valid.

I think it’s important that people see that there are two sides (or more!) to the music issue and also to the vernacular issue. All too often on CAF, I see people imply in their posts that the ancient music and Latin are preferred by most Catholics. When people see this in print (online), they can get the idea that it’s true–that EVERYONE prefers the ancient practices. And that simply isn’t true.

Again, that’s what lively discussion is all about–people passing ideas and opinions back and forth. It’s supposed to be fun–that’s why I get involved in discussions. No one is trying to squash anyone by disagreeing with them. We’re merely trying to hold a discussion, not just a fan club meeting.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Mass of the ANgels is a beautiful aspect of the church. As organist, I can recall that I played for a funeral for three young girls who drowned and I used The Mass of the ANgels–and received so many compliments.

Leave the past in the past and let’s move on

 

[MarkThompson]

Hey I have an idea, why don’t we just adopt all the practices and music of the Eastern Churches? Then we would truly be unified no?

I understand it can be maddening as a (Latin-rite) traditionalist to find that every time you make a statement like “With the TLM, Mass was always exactly the same everywhere!” or “Gregorian chant is the holiest music ever!” you get proven wrong by reference to the Eastern churches, whose unique practices are often as venerable if not even more ancient than that used in Rome (see also Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom vs. Roman Canon, etc.).

Personally, I’ve never been to an Eastern-rite Mass and have no special desire to do so. The point isn’t that the Eastern rites are so wonderful, it’s that their very existence destroys the shallow logic of a lot of the unqualified, knee-jerk statements that are out there. “Gregorian chant is the music best suited to the Roman Rite” is a true statement, but it is both intensionally and theologically different from the claim many would prefer to make, that “Gregorian chant is the music God holds dearest” or what have you. Sorry if it is frustrating to have overbroad, incorrect statements called out as erroneous by reference to the Eastern rites, but if one held himself back to more qualified but true statements this would not happen.

 

[archangel04]

I** understand it can be maddening as a (Latin-rite) traditionalist to find that every time you make a statement like “With the TLM, Mass was always exactly the same everywhere!” or “Gregorian chant is the holiest music ever!”** you get proven wrong by reference to the Eastern churches, whose unique practices are often as venerable if not even more ancient than that used in Rome (see also Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom vs. Roman Canon, etc.).

Personally, I’ve never been to an Eastern-rite Mass and have no special desire to do so. The point isn’t that the Eastern rites are so wonderful, it’s that their very existence destroys the shallow logic of a lot of the unqualified, knee-jerk statements that are out there. “Gregorian chant is the music best suited to the Roman Rite” is a true statement, but it is both intensionally and theologically different from the claim many would prefer to make, that “Gregorian chant is the music God holds dearest” or what have you. Sorry if it is frustrating to have overbroad, incorrect statements called out as erroneous by reference to the Eastern rites, but if one held himself back to more qualified but true statements this would not happen.

Hhmm I’ve never recalled ever saying any of that, but isn’t if your comments that then to make others mad, sometimes with your sarcastic attitude?

 

[archangel04]

IPersonally, I’ve never been to an Eastern-rite Mass and have no special desire to do so. **The point isn’t that the Eastern rites are so wonderful, it’s that their very existence destroys the shallow logic of a lot of the unqualified, **knee-jerk statements that are out there. “Gregorian chant is the music best suited to the Roman Rite” is a true statement, but it is both intensionally and theologically different from the claim many would prefer to make, that “Gregorian chant is the music God holds dearest” or what have you. Sorry if it is frustrating to have overbroad, incorrect statements called out as erroneous by reference to the Eastern rites, but if one held himself back to more qualified but true statements this would not happen.

Silly me I guess I forgot how quealified you are. Well I will be going to a confession for this no doubt.

 

[TrueLight]

I understand it can be maddening as a (Latin-rite) traditionalist to find that every time you make a statement like “With the TLM, Mass was always exactly the same everywhere!” or “Gregorian chant is the holiest music ever!” you get proven wrong by reference to the Eastern churches, whose unique practices are often as venerable if not even more ancient than that used in Rome (see also Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom vs. Roman Canon, etc.).

Personally, I’ve never been to an Eastern-rite Mass and have no special desire to do so. The point isn’t that the Eastern rites are so wonderful, it’s that their very existence destroys the shallow logic of a lot of the unqualified, knee-jerk statements that are out there. “Gregorian chant is the music best suited to the Roman Rite” is a true statement, but it is both intensionally and theologically different from the claim many would prefer to make, that “Gregorian chant is the music God holds dearest” or what have you. Sorry if it is frustrating to have overbroad, incorrect statements called out as erroneous by reference to the Eastern rites, but if one held himself back to more qualified but true statements this would not happen.

No doubt I’m going to annoy some people, BUT

In my opinion, Gregorian Chant is especially suited to the ROMAN rite. If we take a look at all the externals of the Catholic mass: the beautiful cassocks, and surplices, the incense, the genuflections, the prostrations (in ordinations), the tabernacle. The very reverence.

Which is more suited to the mass - Gregorian chant or Hippie folk songs?

 

[TheMc]

No doubt I’m going to annoy some people, BUT

In my opinion, Gregorian Chant is especially suited to the ROMAN rite. If we take a look at all the externals of the Catholic mass: the beautiful cassocks, and surplices, the incense, the genuflections, the prostrations (in ordinations), the tabernacle. The very reverence.

Which is more suited to the mass - Gregorian Chant or Hippie folks songs?

Go ahead and annoy them. You are spot on.

 

[OraLabora]

No doubt I’m going to annoy some people, BUT

In my opinion, Gregorian Chant is especially suited to the ROMAN rite.

That I unreservedly agree with.

 

[MarkThompson]

Hhmm I’ve never recalled ever saying any of that, but isn’t if your comments that then to make others mad, sometimes with your sarcastic attitude?

Silly me I guess I forgot how quealified you are. Well I will be going to a confession for this no doubt.

Why did you even enter this thread to post about “oh, so we should all be Easterners” then? I am quite familiar with the attitude, “I do not want to hear about Eastern rites, there is a separate subforum for that and we are talking about the Latin rite here.” Usually I don’t want to hear about Eastern rites. But they become relevant when someone starts speaking, not in statements about the Latin rite, but in absolutes: “God prefers …”, “All Catholics must …”, “In the past it was absolutely forbidden to …”, and so on. You know the type of statements I mean; people make them all the time.

Thus “The angels surely sing Gregorian chant” is, with all due respect to TheMc, merely pious balderdash, because there is no reason to think they wouldn’t sing Byzantine chant, Old Roman chant, Mozarabic chant, or something else more venerable and equally holy. It is not a big deal, though, which is of course why I posted only a brief remark about it. But why did having this pointed out make you so angry that you felt it necessary to make your snide comment?

 

[Love_Divine]

. All too often on CAF, I see people imply in their posts that the ancient music and Latin are preferred by most Catholics.

I just speak of what the Holy See says and reiterate to people on here. The Holy See says Gregorian Chant is to hold pride of place for the music at Mass. This has nothing to do what most Catholics prefer. It’s all about what the Holy See says, given that that’s where we get our authority from.

 

[hudson]

MarkThompson;8149871.:

Thus “The angels surely sing Gregorian chant” is, with all due respect to TheMc, merely pious balderdash, because there is no reason to think they wouldn’t sing Byzantine chant, Old Roman chant, Mozarabic chant, or something else more venerable and equally holy. It is not a big deal, though, which is of course why I posted only a brief remark about it. But why did having this pointed out make you so angry that you felt it necessary to make your snide comment?

So what you are saying is the Angels definitely like chant? We just aren’t sure which.

 

[callmeChris]

I have always loved chants in the Mass of the Angels. It is simply lovely. I am eternally grateful to the Lord for the gift of the internet to allow us to listen to these majestic and heavenly pieces for as many times as we want even when mass isnt going on

 

[felsguy]

Which is more suited to the mass - Gregorian chant or Hippie folk songs?

Well, if most of the congregation at a particular Mass were a bunch of us Catholic hippies, then I’d say it’s a no-brainer

 

[callmeChris]

Well, if most of the congregation at a particular Mass were a bunch of us Catholic hippies, then I’d say it’s a no-brainer

Don’t forget the Catholic hip hoppers Instead of an organ we will need a DJ with turn tables.

 

[Love_Divine]

Don’t forget the Catholic hip hoppers Instead of an organ we will need a DJ with turn tables.

Today I heard my very first official “folk song” at Mass, “Somebody’s Knocking at Your Door” complete with the guitarist making the knocking sound on his guitar. Our organist was away this weekend…

 

[hudson]

Today I heard my very first official “folk song” at Mass, “Somebody’s Knocking at Your Door” complete with the guitarist making the knocking sound on his guitar. Our organist was away this weekend…

It’s lovely no? :nope:

 

[Love_Divine]

It’s lovely no? :nope:

No. It’s actually an old Folk Song the slaves used to sing to try to convert sinners. They’d sing it over and over again until the sinner converted and repented. It has nothing to do with Catholicism.

 

[felsguy]

No. It’s actually an old Folk Song the slaves used to sing to try to convert sinners. They’d sing it over and over again until the sinner converted and repented. It has nothing to do with Catholicism.

Interesting. I would think that the conversion and repentance of sinners “has a lot to do” with Catholicism

 

[TheMc]

It’s lovely no? :nope:

It’s not the worst song I’ve heard, but it’s not suitable for the liturgy.

 

[Brendan]

Interesting. I would think that the conversion and repentance of sinners “has a lot to do” with Catholicism

No, inflicting bad music over and over again on a penitent until they repent isn’t all that Catholic. We’re more into hair shirts and fasting as penance