I’m praying for your sister in laws loss right now. I hope she has some true support from someone who understands the pain of the death of a baby inside her. It is a terrible loss, not something she brought on herself. An iud miscarriage is one that happens while the iud is still in place.
Nope. Not what the Church teaches.
Let’s not play word games with just/grave/whatever in this exact circumstance. In this context they have little difference in meaning. Does a couple have just/grave reason to NFP because more than two children will stretch the family budget? Only the individual in each circumstance knows, but I’m personally not willing to try to explain that at my judgement. Does a couple have just/grave reason to NFP because they want to provide a certain material lifestyle for their family that more children would jeopardize or not allow? I’m not willing to bet my state of grace on it. Does a couple have just/grave reason to NFP because mom wants to give more individual attention to children and more children makes it difficult to do so? Who is mom really thinking of here? Is she entrusting her family’s best interest to our Lord, or trying to keep control so that she may have an earthly peace? Blessed John Paul II quoted several times, “Madness which comes from God is so much more beautiful than wisdom of human origin.”Nope. Not what the Church teaches.
The Church teaches that you must have “just” reasons. Not serious, not grave. Simply just reasons.
And NFP can be used “long term.” It doesn’t have to be “at the moment.”
You might want to learn more about what the Church teaches.
Thank you for your prayers. I am praying for her too. My mom suffered a late miscarriage ( near 20 weeks) and drove 2 hours north to spend 3 days with them. So yes she did have someone to care and support them
As a previous poster said , just or serious reasons are adequate.
I think that we have a difference in how we fundamentally view God’s and a couple’s participation as co-creators to create human life. God created the biology, and the biology follows His rules. Your position implies that God does not follow His own rules, but wills sperm to meet egg or sperm to not meet egg. That opens up a whole can of worms in terms of why unmarried teens get pregnant, why babies are born with defects, why children are born to unfit parents.
Word games?
No one is asking you to determine if a couple has just reasons to use NFP.
It is not your place to judge someone’s circumstances but you seem to be doing just that.
. That’s why I brought the whole topic up, for anyone who reads it, to reflect upon those points. 
. Tone is difficult to tell over typing. Thanks for your thoughts!Just something to ponder - if God is not following His rules, how can NFP work?Paulinva, you brought up interesting points. I never heard someone give your explanation. I’m still thinking about it! I do think though, that maybe we cannot fit biology and God into a nice and neat box. It is the age old question of divine providence versus free will…Children born out of wedlock- God intended for those children to be. Their creation did not surprise God, and they did have a soul at conception, and the bible does say I knew you before I created you. As I’m thinking about this, I think God has no rules to follow, and biology is his vehicle for creation. It still begs the question of why, how, etc… But that is nothing new! Theology will always have it’s divine mysteries. I think God is responsible for the creation of all life… And that he certainly intends for each life to be. I am not trying to argue, just discuss
Maryjk, perhaps you feel convicted by what I say, because you are awfully defensive. I am not judging you or anyone. There is nothing judgmental about looking at a situation and pondering it, especially in light of a bigger issue, like the control and contraceptive mentality. I simply brought up points that I think are worthy of other Catholics reflecting upon. It is okay for you to disagree
That depends on what you’re talking about. But it’s a strawman argument. If the couple wants to give each of their kids a brand new car when they turn 16, they are not the type of couple who would bother with NFP in the first place.
She’s thinking of her children! Of course giving more individual attention to children is a serious reason to use NFP. Do you honestly think it’s better for couples to have more children than they can pay attention to?
So what? If they say they have a serious reason, they have a serious reason. Maybe they are putting off children because they want the wife to be able to stay home, or they want to send their kids to Catholic school. You know, things the Church encourages couples to do. And maybe they will change their minds before five years. Why are you so concerned about this?
Its hard to tell whether or not they are upset just by reading their words, It is very possible they are as cool and emotionless as I presume you are and are merely trying to correct what they see as misinformation, or to restate it in a way they think is more appropriate.So many people are being upset by me pointing out the spiritual benefits of leaving our own desires/will out of our families’ planning, and bringing up that if one is not open to life, then NFP is sinful- fact. If you all are convicted about NFP and spiritually content with your own choices, why let one person’s opinion bring you all the duress your posts have shown? My points are reasonable and I’ve simply advised reflection.
As for the question, “Why pick on couples who NFP over the couples who contracept?” Nobody is being picked on. See my above paragraph. Secondly, the saying, “Good is the enemy of best.” comes to mind. God Bless you all! There is nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas. No need to be defensive, fellow Catholics! This is the last I will be responding to this discussion unless something else needs to be said, but for the most part, I think all that can be said has been. Prayers
There is no list of what constitutes just or unjust reasons. The only examples cited in official Church teaching are things like financial, social, emotional, psychological, or physical health issues. But no specifics are given. Spouses are told to be generous, but to practice responsible parenthood. And the final decision of whether a couple is called to have another child is left entirely in the hands of that couple themselves. There are many people who speak as if only the most serious and life-threatening of reasons can justify avoiding children, and others who speak as if it is impossible to use NFP to avoid for selfish reasons. I see it as somewhere in between the two. But what is certain is that people should not hear those who claim that it must be used only for the gravest of reasons and then come to believe that is what the Church actually teaches. That is a personal opinion and is not binding upon anyone. What is binding is following ones conscience as formed by official Church teaching. That is the only way to determine whether or not one has sufficient reason to avoid children at any given point in time.
I’m not upset in the least.Its hard to tell whether or not they are upset just by reading their words, It is very possible they are as cool and emotionless as I presume you are and are merely trying to correct what they see as misinformation, or to restate it in a way they think is more appropriate.
I get that it is not “Grave” reasons. Someone earlier said that it is just “just” reasons, as if that meant something trivial. So my question is what do the two words the Church uses in her documents mean “Just Reason” What does that mean. You don’t need to give me a list of reasons just tell me how I know what a “Just reason” is.
This is the clearest phrase yet on the subject.
I think the concern of many is that your erroneous interpretation of church teaching is being put out there as fact. From your very first post, when you used and even capitalised the word “grave” (which has a very different meaning to “just” and “serious”), we knew you did not have authentic knowledge of the teaching.So many people are being upset by me pointing out the spiritual benefits of leaving our own desires/will out of our families’ planning, and bringing up that if one is not open to life, then NFP is sinful- fact. If you all are convicted about NFP and spiritually content with your own choices, why let one person’s opinion bring you all the duress your posts have shown? My points are reasonable and I’ve simply advised reflection.
As for the question, “Why pick on couples who NFP over the couples who contracept?” Nobody is being picked on. See my above paragraph. Secondly, the saying, “Good is the enemy of best.” comes to mind. God Bless you all! There is nothing wrong with an exchange of ideas. No need to be defensive, fellow Catholics! This is the last I will be responding to this discussion unless something else needs to be said, but for the most part, I think all that can be said has been. Prayers
Does this apply to any sin? How is it that only God knows something and does not communicate what is right to his flock? What kind of God would that be? Is that a good shepherd? Is that a loving God?
You yourself know what God teaches, wow. No, you know what the Catholic Church teaches and are closed minded that some interpretations may have been clouded. I did not give my opinion of which you seem to bash so readily, I only stated what some others think. You don’t sound very God like to me, but maybe that is you own faulted opinion of yourself.