Masterbation as an Alternative to Normal Sex

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Lauds said:
99.9 % of the population masturbates, in spite of being married . or fornicating. Babies masturbate, from there on up, & I dare say that many a priest on the qt will say , it`s not a sin to masturbate, some of them I am sure have their problems with it too
. God knows man is weak, human weakness plays a huge huge part in the sinful things we do, including fornication & masturbation. There is nothing wrong with masturbation, man is a sexual being,masturbation can be a sublimation for many until they marry, what about the poor folks who cant find someone to marry. Masturbation is ok
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Could you cite your source that 99.9% of the population masturbates.

That number is so high, I am willing to better that not that many people could be said to have masturbated at least once.

Look, I am right.
In one national study, 95% of males and 89% of females reported that they have masturbated. Source
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Of course what follows is the man made concept that it is normal. Again, I would rather put my faith in God’s Church then my fate in the hands of men. (no pun intended)
 
OraLabora said:
Indeed. For a man or woman at 400 pounds, sexual issues is the least of their worries. They have a major health problem leading to diabetes, heart disease, stroke, joint issues, you name it.

The sin of gluttony will do far more physical damage to you than the sin of masturbation.
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So by your logic since a sin is less grave when compared to another one we should therefore do it?

Of course the devil uses such faulty logic to lure people into sin… “Oh its not as bad as that other sin… oh it won’t hurt anyone…”

I honestly don’t see where the whole problem is regarding masturbation, masturbation is a denial of a real relationship with a woman… and therefore is selfish. period. exclamation point

Your brother in Christ
Zachary
 
Podo2005 said:
So by your logic since a sin is less grave when compared to another one we should therefore do it?
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I of course said no such thing. Please indicate to me where I said “we should therefore do it”. Please, out of Christian charity, don’t twist my words and make it seem I said something I didn’t. But I can say one thing with certainty: weighing 400 pounds can kill you. Masturbation can’t. That isn’t a license to masturbate. Just a medical reality. If you care for your soul you’ll avoid both.
Podo2005 said:
I honestly don’t see where the whole problem is regarding masturbation, masturbation is a denial of a real relationship with a woman… and therefore is selfish. period. exclamation point.
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Of course for some people, for various reasons, a relationship with a woman is not possible. Many reasons can cause this: too young to marry, widowed but not yet found a new spouse, in prison, away from one’s spouse for extended periods for work, military duty, spouse in the hospital, etc. The list is long…

While not excusing masturbation in those cases, surely you recognize that people in those circumstances have a bigger cross to bear, and therefore when they fail, they merit not our scorn, but our sympathy and prayers?
 
OraLabora said:
I of course said no such thing. Please indicate to me where I said “we should therefore do it”. Please, out of Christian charity, don’t twist my words and make it seem I said something I didn’t. But I can say one thing with certainty: weighing 400 pounds can kill you. Masturbation can’t. That isn’t a license to masturbate. Just a medical reality. If you care for your soul you’ll avoid both.
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I can also say that using a condom will not kill anyone, but it is also sinful. Of course, one who has controlled his desires before they were married (not masturbated) will be much better prepared to practice NFP.
Of course for some people, for various reasons, a relationship with a woman is not possible. Many reasons can cause this: too young to marry, widowed but not yet found a new spouse, in prison, away from one’s spouse for extended periods for work, military duty, spouse in the hospital, etc. The list is long…
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While not excusing masturbation in those cases, surely you recognize that people in those circumstances have a bigger cross to bear, and therefore when they fail, they merit not our scorn, but our sympathy and prayers?
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I agree, but what they do not need is permission. The OP was citing scientific sources to show that masturbation should be allowed (in some cases).

I know it seems to appear as though we are all callous, heartless, hateful Catholics, that want nothing more than to see people suffer, but in reality we (or at least I) are trying to keep people on the narrow path so they do not suffer the fires of hell.
 
chessmane4e5 said:
I can also say that using a condom will not kill anyone, but it is also sinful.
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It may actually indeed kill someone. In fact I’ll bet anyone a beer that condoms have already killed folks.

Why? Because when the popular media, and the medical profession tell people to use condoms to protect themselves against HIV, it is interpreted by folks as giving permission and a guarantee of absolute safety.

If your fear of AIDS is great, and the infection rate in your country is very high (e.g. some parts of Africa), you may be compelled to remain chaste simply out of fear.

But if the medical profession says “use a condom to protect yourself”, you give the person the mistaken notion that they are safe by using a condom. But condoms do not have a 0% failure rate. It can be as high as 10%. And a percentage of those failures will result in transmission of HIV. On a scale of millions of people, you can bet that of the people who used condoms thinking they were safe, 10% or so of them got a very big “ooops” during the act, and a percentage of those got bad news from the doctor.

Using a condom is not safe sex whatsoever. It is latex roulette.

I don’t think one can claim the same thing about solo masturbation.
 
haha, yeah but it was not the condom that actually killed the person.

Masturbation has actually killed people though. here
 
‘If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act,
29 her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her.’"

Dueteronomy, not Genesis.

If you believe the catholic church is infallible with it’s judgement of morality, perhaps you could do some research on the crusades :P. Or the witch hunts. The catholic church has made some mistakes in the past. In matters of morality, people (i.e the church) are most definitely not infallible.
 
Thecapz,

If you believe the catholic church is infallible with it’s judgement of morality, perhaps you could do some research on the crusades :P. Or the witch hunts. The catholic church has made some mistakes in the past. In matters of morality, people (i.e the church) are most definitely not infallible.

No, the TEACHINGS of the Catholic Church on FAITH and MORALS are infallible. Jesus told the apostles (the first pope and bishops) that the Holy Spirit would come and they would be guided by the Holy Spirit. “What you bind on earth will be bound in heaven”. This does not mean that the popes, bishops, priests have not sinned and did things that were gravely wrong. We are all sinners.
 
Based on the bible?

A lot of the guidelines have been setup to what they think is right. These books are required by the catholic church to stop the church from further splintering. The rules are necessary, but not always right. As they are created by man.
 
USUlsterScot said:
For me, this has been one of the most confusing positions of the Catholic Church. I understand the Church’s position is that sex is for the purpose of pro-creation between man and woman. I have always felt that there are at least three aspects of sex, physical, psychological, and spiritual and that the Church’s position does not always address all three. The joining of a man and woman in marriage can satisfy all three of these, but not necessarily. There is often great disparity in sexual drive between a man and women; being driven in large part by the level of hormones in both which can vary widely. The Church’s position offers no way of reconciling this disparity. Using the Church’s logic, if either the man or woman could not pro-create (sterility for instance), there would be no need for sex.

I think this ignores the physical and psychological needs of sex for both men and women. It can also lead to problems within marriage with no solution for resolution other than abstinence and ignoring of physical and psychological needs.
The church’s position provides no solution for men or women whose partner develops some kind of problem which prohibits normal sexual function, be it physical, psychological, etc. From my reading from medical sources, many men develop prostate problems because of the buildup of testosterone which can be due to the reduced frequency or abstinence of sex. Ejaculation is the only way for excess testosterone to be reduced in the prostrate (other than special medications). I have a friend who is taking these and they can produce enlarged breasts, higher pitched voice, and increased emotional response to events. From the sources I have read, regular ejaculation is beneficial to the prostrate and can help relieve problems from BHP.

My wife began entering menopause more than 20 years ago and coupled with her lack of physical exercise and weight gain has resulted in her sex drive dropping to a point where we have not had sex in over 12 years. As a result, I have also developed prostrate problems and now have to take medications. I have found many of my friends have gone through similar experiences, some of which have developed prostate cancer.
It seems to me the Church’s position fails to address problems when normal sex between a man and a woman cannot be consummated and provides no solutions for men and women who are, for what every reason not married.
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The Church does not teach that marital sex is just for procreation. If one of the marital partners is sterile/menopausal they can still have marital relations because they are are still open to the possibility of life. The Church teaches that marital sex is procreative and unitive. The unitive part includes mutual self-giving, love, and pleasure. This marital love between them is beautiful and holy, with the husband representing Christ and the wife representing His Church. It really does bring them together physically, psychologically, and spiritually.

I know many (single and married) faithful Catholic men and women, including myself who have won the masturbation addiction battle. It can be done but only with God’s help. It takes many years for some but everything is possible with God. One has to truly want to quit with all his heart. I know you are carrying a huge cross but don’t you want to love Jesus more than anything else? He loves you so much that I think he may have given you this cross so you will come closer to Him by praying more to Him for help. Try to frequent the sacraments as often as you can and try ( I know this is hard) to offer up your sufferings in union with Jesus’ suffering at the mass. The prayers of the Holy mass are the most powerful prayers you can pray. We are Catholic and we believe that suffering is part of our faith (unlike others). For the married our job is to get our spouse to heaven. May God be with you in your trials. Oh and that book Theology of the Body is beautiful! Maybe you could read it with your wife.
 
Thecapz said:
Based on the bible?

A lot of the guidelines have been setup to what they think is right. These books are required by the catholic church to stop the church from further splintering. The rules are necessary, but not always right. As they are created by man.
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Thecapz, Yes it is biblical! They were inspired by God.

Matt 16 18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.”

John 16:12-13 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on His own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”

2 Timothy 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
 
Thecapz said:
If you believe the catholic church is infallible with it’s judgement of morality, perhaps you could do some research on the crusades :P. Or the witch hunts. The catholic church has made some mistakes in the past. In matters of morality, people (i.e the church) are most definitely not infallible.
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I think you may need to be the one to do some research.

The Crusades: catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603tbt.asp

An article that address both your claims. catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0011fr.asp

All you can really do is try and attack the people of the Church. We are all sinners and through out history we have stumbled. But the Church is of God and He said the gates of Hell will not prevail against it.
 
Lauds said:
It would be illogical to pluck out your eye, etc, else most of us would be walking around with no eyes, no hands no feet, no arms, this said from my priests sermon at a mass about a month ago. Masturbation is not a sin, its God given, its almost an impossible fight to win even for the stouthearted catholics, & there arent many of them. God meant for humans to masturbate or it wouldnt be such an impossible fight for most.There are many other things a person has to go through in this life, before he passes, man doesn`t wear a halo, he is human, to err is human, Thus, Jesus our Saviour
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you are doing a lot of damage spreading this kind of falsity…

i have not done this sin in YEARS despite the many urges to do so… it messes up my close thing with Jesus and i will NOT do that… ever agian.* i know i will never do this sin again***… and if i with my strong desires, can say NO,then so can others…

you must not be very intimate wiht Jesus to say such things… Once i got very close to Him, i saw things MUCH differently than b4…
 
USUlsterScot said:
My wife began entering menopause more than 20 years ago and coupled with her lack of physical exercise and weight gain has resulted in her sex drive dropping to a point where we have not had sex in over 12 years. As a result, I have also developed prostrate problems and now have to take medications. I have found many of my friends have gone through similar experiences, some of which have developed prostate cancer.
It seems to me the Church’s position fails to address problems when normal sex between a man and a woman cannot be consummated and provides no solutions for men and women who are, for what every reason not married.
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the Church fails at nothing. it is only humans who fail. Christ teaches us through His Church what we needto know for faith/morals. Either one believes that or one does not. hopefully, if one does not, it is only out of ignorance… but even ignorant people go to Purgatory and sometimes Hell… somewhere in the Bible it says that the one who didn’t “know” will be beaten with fewer stripes…but he will still be beaten… just not as much as the one who knows better.

is this an excuse to continue in ignorance?? No, because if you continue in ignorance just so you can sin, you will be judged for that…

call my cynical but i don’t buyit that the only reason yo don’t have sex w/ your wife is the reasons listed… 12 years!!! i don’t buy it, i;'m sorry… i think she is unhappy with you…
 
distracted said:
you are doing a lot of damage spreading this kind of falsity…

i have not done this sin in YEARS despite the many urges to do so… it messes up my close thing with Jesus and i will NOT do that… ever agian.* i know i will never do this sin again***… and if i with my strong desires, can say NO,then so can others…

you must not be very intimate wiht Jesus to say such things… Once i got very close to Him, i saw things MUCH differently than b4…
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Well, maybe you are on a different spiritual level than most, because U beat this sin doesnt mean others can, one size dont fit all, every one has a weakness or weaknesses. There are many degrees of spirituality & closeness with the Lord, we are not all given the same graces, God knew man would need a saviour, because he is weak, thats why he sent Jesus, in propitiation for the sins of ALL mankind. maybe your libido is gone & U dont know it, they say to not use it is to lose it. Anyway, Good luck on your unique spiritual journey, as all of our journeys are unique. Nobody knows what is between a man & God, No body:shrug:
 
Lauds said:
Well, maybe you are on a different spiritual level than most, because U beat this sin doesnt mean others can, one size dont fit all, every one has a weakness or weaknesses. There are many degrees of spirituality & closeness with the Lord, we are not all given the same graces, God knew man would need a saviour, because he is weak, thats why he sent Jesus, in propitiation for the sins of ALL mankind. maybe your libido is gone & U dont know it, they say to not use it is to lose it. Anyway, Good luck on your unique spiritual journey, as all of our journeys are unique. Nobody knows what is between a man & God, No body:shrug:
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We are all unique, yet it is the One Lord that told us He would give us more than we can bear. So, I am sorry, but you are wrong, everyone can chose to NOT masturbate, just like everyone who is a smoker, can quit. Will it be easy? No. Could it be easier for some and more difficult for others? Of course.

Having been addicted to both smoking and masturbation (and lets throw pornography in as well) I may be speaking personally when I say I was able to stop, but I am not unique. Everyone can stop. And lets not make excuses, I am 29 years old, started masturbating and smoking when I was 13. Quit smoking at age 20, and only just recently stopped masturbating. My libido is fine (I got married at 22 and had a good sex life, yet still I masturbate sometimes).It is our current culture that brainwashes children into thinking masturbation is okay, when it is a sin. After reading “Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West, I firmly resolved to never masturbate again, and I know that I never will. Do I still have urges to smoke or masturbate at time? Sure do. But I have firmly resolved to never do these things again.
 
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