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Lauds
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ItWith all do respect, why do you think your personal opinion is better than 2000 years of Tradition?
Also, from what you have written, I take it you are not married. (Correct me if I am wrong). So, do you think that once you are married, you will stop masturbating? Also, when you spouse touches you, do you think it will feel the same way as when you touch yourself? I speak from experience, it will not. Since you have “practiced” on yourself, you know what feels good. So now you have a problem. You can either try and “help” you spouse “do it the right way” or say nothing and not be truly enjoying the moment. This is not healthy for your marriage (I do not like to use the term ‘sex life’).
Who never beats it? Everyone? I have, and I have heard from others that have. If people can beat Alcoholism, they can beat this.
True, your sex organs are literally at your fingertips, but you can still avoid the occasion of sin. Set-up something to do during those times you used to masturbate. When you feel the desire, say the Rosary. Avoid movies or t.v. shows that arouse you. If you try, you can avoid a lot of the occasions of this sin.
I have addressed the first lines. It is true that many Catholics do have problems with Church teachings, but this is not an excuse to disregard them. The last 30 years (maybe more) schools have been teaching that masturbation is normal. Is it no wonder that so many people are therefore trying it and doing it? It is definitely sad that their are Priests who doubts the teachings of the Church, but it is true they are human and can err, yet again this does not mean the Church is wrong.
The Church does not say that Oral and/or Anal sex is “okay”, this is a misconception. If you are truly interested in learning why masturbation is a sin, and how a Catholic is to view sex, please read “Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West. You can get it at Amazon for under 10 bucks used, including shipping. Very easy read too
s a man made law, there is no mention of it in the Bible. I am also a married man, been around the block numerous times. Did You read what I wrote, I abide by the Catholic Church that it is a sin even tho personally I dont think it is, I am allowed to have my doubts about it, many have doubts, It is a normal thing to do especially among adolescents & usually carries with them a lifetime, off & on. The Church has set a lot of bad example. Babies even masturbate , its as normal as picking your nose
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onmyknees
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Quote by Laud
It`s a man made law, there is no mention of it in the Bible.
Laud, It is not man made law according to these scripture verses.
2 Peter 1:20-21 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Matt 16 18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.”
John 16:12-13 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on His own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”
2 Timothy 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Thou hast made us for Thyself O’ Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.
St. Augustine
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It`s a man made law, there is no mention of it in the Bible.
Laud, It is not man made law according to these scripture verses.
2 Peter 1:20-21 First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Matt 16 18-19 “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and what you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven.”
John 16:12-13 “I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on His own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.”
2 Timothy 16 All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Thou hast made us for Thyself O’ Lord and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.
St. Augustine
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chessmane4e5
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Catholics do not follow Scripture Alone.
I have read what you wrote, I am not judging what you may or may not do in your life. I am arguing with your beliefs about masturbation.
Can you define Normal for me? I thinking that trying to simulate sex, an act that is designed to be between two people, using your hand or some other device, is far from normal.
Adolescents also experiment with drugs and some carry that with them for a lifetime. I would rather put my trust in God then in what adolescents chose to do.
Babies masturbate!?! Evidence please, not this in anyway is proof that it is okay for teens and adults to do it (I mean babies also drink milk from their mothers breast, but it is not something that anyone else can get away with).
Again, please define Normal for me.
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OraLabora
Guest
Well, some 95% of humans do it at least once; left alone almost every child/adolescent will discover it on his/her own at puberty. It’s prevalent in mammals in the animal world…
It certainly seems that in nature it is some sort of relief valve. Of course as children of God we are called to rise above our nature. The question then becomes at what point does rising above our nature defy our abilities?
Many try and fail repeatedly to overcome this sin. Not everyone has equal ability. Not everyone has the same hormone level. Not everyone has the same resistance to weakness. Not everyone is in the same life situation. It’s one thing for someone happily married to avoid, quite another for one whose life situation does not allow licit sexual relations with someone of the opposite sex.
So, in short, I think that understanding this sin and one’s own culpability is a private matter between penitent and confessor. My own experience with confessors is that they are nowhere near as harsh and judgmental as most of the posters here.
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chessmane4e5
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Source please.
“In one national study, 95% of males and 89% of females reported that they have masturbated.” WebMD
So in our country, these are the results from one study. Like I said earlier, is it any wonder since starting 30+ years ago schools started teaching that masturbation was normal, as early as 5th grade!
With all that said, how much sense does it make to say that normal is what the majority do? If we believe this, then we will never change.
Or since divorce is so “normal” these days, should we just accept it as such?
I do not see how we can know this, given that starting at age 10 we teach children about it.
Yeah, we do not want to go down the road of comparing ourselves to animals.
Our nature is how God created us. Sex is designed (by God) to be Unitive (two flesh become one). If we reject God’s design, then we suffer the consequences. You may say there are no “ill side-effects”. I have stated a few in an earlier thread.
This is all justification. Fact is, everyone can stop, but yes it will be more difficult for some. Marriage is not that answer, as I have already related. My marriage overall is the same, yet I have stopped masturbating. My understanding is different. I now understand why masturbation is evil, and what it means to “make love” to my wife.
Has your confessor ever been harsh and judgmental? Sin is Sin.
I strongly urge you to read “Good News About Sex & Marriage” by Christopher West, or better yet “Theology of the Body” by John Paul II. Then come back here and see if you still feel the same way. I am 99.99% sure, that if you read that book with an open mind and heart, you will believe as I do, that Masturbation is Evil (the opposite of Good, meaning against God’s will).
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OraLabora
Guest
Well given that I am male…
I am 51 years old. I never had sex education in school.
By your own numbers, 95 and 89% male and female. Even Kinsey would back up those numbers, no doubt, and that was long before sex education our our current sexual culture.
Apples and oranges.
I discovered it long before I even knew what the word meant. As I said in my time it wasn’t taught in school.
I have not said that there are no ill effects.
“To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.” (CCC 2352)
It sounds to me like the Church herself has a certain amount of tolerance for justification wide enough to drive a bus through, sideways.
You learned that only AFTER you stopped masturbating? Wow.
Anyway, bully for you if you’ve managed to stop. Doesn’t give you the right to lecture to the rest of us who still struggle. The speck in the other’s eye vs. the log in our own and all that.
My confessor is an 80 y.o. Benedictine monk. I think he’s heard a lot more than anybody on this list, and I prefer to be guided by his wisdom and judgment. That said, whatever my confessor imposes or doesn’t impose on me, will remain hidden behind the seal of the confessional and won’t be broadcast at large on an Internet forum.
I am quite familiar with the Natural Law and the theory behind it.
Do I believe masturbation is an “evil”? Yes sure but perhaps not to the same degree as others here. For example, compared to murder…
Do I believe that masturbators are inherently evil? Of course not. See the CCC quote above. It’s the one posters here conveniently seem to forget when lecturing to others.
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chessmane4e5
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[/QUOTE]Well given that I am male…
I am 51 years old. I never had sex education in school.
By your own numbers, 95 and 89% male and female. Even Kinsey would back up those numbers, no doubt, and that was long before sex education our our current sexual culture.
How nice that you get to decide what is normal. You said that if a majority do it, its normal. I brought up divorce, you say its different. Exactly how is it different. 50% of all marriages end in divorce, seems pretty normal to me.
You are correct, the Church does not say that everyone that Masturbates is going to Hell. Just like if you kill someone, the circumstances of the situation play a critical role in determining if a Sin is Mortal.
But the “vibe” that is being given out in this thread is that “it is okay, everyone does it. Sure you ‘should’ try and stop, but it is so tough, just do the best you can.” This answer, while being supportive, is misleading to the OP and others that are saying it is perfectly normal.
No, I didn’t make myself clear. I learned all that after I learned what the Church teaches about Sex. Again, read Good News…by Christopher West if you really want to knows Gods opinion on this subject. Or you can continue to believe what you will, I mean clearly you have a better understanding than the 2000+ year old Church.
Thank you for being supportive of my triumph over sin
I am not lecturing. I am not saying, “Everyone should stop right now, and if you ever do it again, you will BURN!!!” I have never said this. But I will speak the Truth, that Masturbation is Evil and we should make every effort to stop, once and for all, AND that it is possible to stop and never do it again. To say otherwise, is a lie.
I did not want you to reveal what is said, you are the one that brought up when you confess. I was simply asking if your confessor has ever judged you harshly. If you have been judged harshly on certain sins, but not on masturbation, then your comment might have some weight. But if you have never been judged harshly on any of your sins, then it shows what I was saying, that Sin is Sin and should be avoided.
I have addressed the CCC, but you seem to forgot that Pope John Paul II wrote extensively on this subject in The Theology of the Body. Christopher West has done a good job to focus on the Sex part of this, which I recommend you read. Until you do, you will not understand the full teachings of the Church on this issue.
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psalm42
Guest
I’ve been skimming over these replies and I was thinking as I was reading about how many people masturbate today that thank God my mom told me it was a sin when I was young! (Im in my 20’s) I never experimented with myself growing up because of this and that I wanted to share that with only my husband. I didn’t ask many questions but knew my mom shunned it and I thought only boys were prone to it and my friends never concerned themselves with the topic…but what I am saying is that I am very thankful I did not get caught up in myself in that manner and it was all because of my mother (I have 4 brothers, too). I should go thank her!
So, it can happen that not ALL teens masturbate.
So, it can happen that not ALL teens masturbate.
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crazzeto
Guest
Thank you for sharing this,
Unfortunetly I think many of the baby boomers who launched the sexual revolution have been trying their whole lives since their teens to justify their disordered revolution. Thus, they’ve invented this mythology of the horn ball teenager who is a slave of their hormones and has no choice but to satisfy their every single whim. So they tell their youngsters that “masturbation is fine, normal and healthy” and tell them not to listen to their parish priest when he reminds the congregation about the virtues of Chastity. This is lead to a whole generation (mine) growing up mis-lead and very confused about the role of sexuality in God’s plan.
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distracted
Guest
here is a success story. i haven’t committed this sin in many years…(been celibate even longer) and you know what? i am still alive, obviously…
and i am healthy in mind & body… far as i know… I KNOW i am healthier in spirit… not that my life is perfect. not hardly. in fact the devil is after me more now that i don’t do this than ever…
, but whatever… (and trust me, this is NO exaggeration).anyway, i have a strong sex drive. i am female but i don’t feel that that makes a bit of difference. my sex drive is probably higher than most men i know (no way to prove, of course). all i know is that my body has NOT forgotten about sexual gratification.
i wish that prayer and Masses and etc… took care of THAT but can’t say it does… my body is an obstinate creature that doesn’t want to “forget” and yet is forced to forget because i am NOT going to do this sin ever againit may have gotten THAT message… but anyway… i know i won’t do this sin ever again because i know the hell i go through when i do some sin like this… how it separates me from Christ… and when i say “hell” i am NOT exaggerating. it is hell to separated from the only Real Love ther is. :hypno:it was When i got more intimate w/ Christ that i saw more than ever how awful this sin is…
I may never be able to find the words to articulate just how it is wrong and in what ways it hurts us, but whether i can find the words or not… this is a very serious sin that leads people to Hell…and Even if you don’t believe that…
***can you afford to be wrong??? ***
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distracted
Guest
thank you for your testimony…
***and God bless your wonderful mother… ***
my mother didn’t talk to me about much of anything… very long story…
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dsears
Guest
I will say that this is a sin that I have always struggled with. When I was a preteen the church that I was a part of (an American Baptist Church) did not talk about this at all. And I became ‘addicted’. Ever since my conversion and confirmation I often go to confession just for this sin. And it is a hard one to confess to. 
But as I struggle with this I know that God is great and that he will take care of me. One thing that has helped is that I have started praying the liturgy of the hours. And not only that I am discerning a call to the religious life and the priesthood. (As I have mentioned was a protestant seminarian before I converted.) Now with that being said I have noticed that I fall into this sin most of the time when I am half a sleep. When I am fully awake I do not fall into this sin, but when I am half asleep I do catch myself sometimes.
But as I struggle with this I know that God is great and that he will take care of me. One thing that has helped is that I have started praying the liturgy of the hours. And not only that I am discerning a call to the religious life and the priesthood. (As I have mentioned was a protestant seminarian before I converted.) Now with that being said I have noticed that I fall into this sin most of the time when I am half a sleep. When I am fully awake I do not fall into this sin, but when I am half asleep I do catch myself sometimes.
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baylee
Guest
It does? Then someone please explain to me why, if masterbation is a grave sin and should never be done, this book (based on Theology of the Body by JPII) states that if the wife does not finish, then it is okay for her to finish in some other way. Um…what other way is there for her to “finish” other than masterbation (whether done by her or her husband)? And if this is allowed, how is masterbation still a sin?
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chessmane4e5
Guest
Because in this case, it is being done within the marital embrace. It is a sin when it is separated from sexual intercourse. Think of it this way, a man and a woman have sex. The man always climaxes, but sometimes the woman does not. It is this situation that it would be okay to help your wife “finish”.
It is a sin if a husband were to masturbate for his wife and not engage in sexual intercourse. The key is, you can not separate parts of the marital embrace, especially just for pleasure.
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baylee
Guest
So there are exceptions to masterbation? I thought an evil action can not happen even if it brings about good.
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curl
Guest
Interesting. I’ll have to read more about that.
Thanks for posting.
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chessmane4e5
Guest
I am no expert, so maybe I misunderstand but…
It is not that ‘masturbation’ is evil. Just like it is not that a gun is not evil, but in how it is used.
If a person masturbates simply to pleasure themselves, outside of the marital embrace, that is a sin.
Your rational is like saying that since sex outside of marriage is a sin, then all sex is a sin. That is clearly not true.
Read the book, it is really easy to read and makes sense. $10 (used) at amazon, including shipping.
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baylee
Guest
No, these things are apples and oranges. The Catechism explains the difference between self defense vs murder and sex within marriage vs sex outside of marriage. Masterbation is considered a grave sin per the Catechism…and if I am supposed to take the Catechism literally (and what I hear on here constantly about grave sins), then there should be no exceptions to such a sin. The ends doesn’t justify the means, right?
Now, I am struggling with Church teaching on masterbation/sexual morality within marriage so I’m not necessarily saying that I take issue with what is being said here (re: allowing the woman to finish via masterbation). But to me that sounds like there are certain circumstances when masterbation is okay (granted, within marriage). It truly makes me wonder just how grave this sin is…or if it is a sin at all. It also doesn’t seem right to allow this exception for the woman and not the man. I can understand this thinking when way back semen was considered life itself…and therefore spilling it outside the womb was akin to murder/abortion…but not so much now in this day and age when we know that semen is not life itself.
PS. I have read the book…
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chessmane4e5
Guest
I believe I mis-spoke then, I apologize.
What is the definition of masturbation? A person stimulating themselves for pleasure.
What the book and I was talking about was the husband stimulating the wife either before or after the marital embrace.
These are apples and oranges. I suggest you read pages 90 and 91 of the Good News about Sex and Marriage (although the entire book is great).
I hope this helps clear it up.
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