Masterbation uncertainty

[CatholicMC]

I am in the last year of my teens and up until now I have lived outside the word of God. I am now resolved to love him as much as he loves the whole world, yet on of my mental sticking points is masterbation. Jesus taught us to love and respect ourselves and our bodies, yet is masterbation disrespectful to one’s body. If I am hungry between meals I feed myself, likewise with thirst. If I am tired I rest myself. If I have an itch, (no pun intended) I scratch it. Therefor, why am I disallowed to to provide this particular type of releaf as long as I do not do it in contemt and ignorance of God? (please not, i’m not arguing a point, i’m seeking guidance in a manner):banghead:

You’re not dissallowed from doing anything. It ultimately is your choice. The Church provides guidelines of sin because sin ultimtately hurts others, the Church, and ourselves in relationship to God. Examine on your own and with a priest why the Church teaches that masturbation is inherantly selfish, disordered, and immoral. I am a young college-aged male dealing with this to. Ask yourself if you truly feel masturbation is a good thing.

 

[blessedtoo]

I do endeavor to follow the Magisterium of the Church. However, at this point in time I can not reconcile my moral conscience with the Magisterium of the Church and choose to remain true to what I believe is right.

Then you still have some work to do. I suggest more prayer. You’ve done enough intellectual gymnastics and all you’ve succeeded in doing is convincing yourself that your private interpretations override the authority of the Church; you know, the one Christ left behind?

How about if told you that I’ve read all that the Church teaches about giving to the poor and that I understand the theology and concept behind what I am obligated to do, but I just can’t reconcile it with my conscience and state in life? You know, I’m not a wealthy woman and I really do sort of resent that the poor don’t just get out there and work for themselves, like I do. I really think the Magesterium is misguided on this issue and my conscience tells me I can just disregard this “rule”.

How about if each Catholic takes each Church teaching and picks it apart, intellectualizing and rationalizing all angles and finally decides the Magesterium just doesn’t stand a chance against their superior consciences?

Is it the Church’s problem or is it mine?

 

[fix]

I’m grateful for my exposure to this forum as it has led me to study the Catechism on a deeper level. After praying about this issue of masturbation, studying the Catechism, reading these forums, talking to priests, my view is that Masturbation is a subjectively sinful act. That’s not the teaching of the Church, which says it is an objectively sinful act. Many would claim that my conclusion is a sign of a lack of obedience, or a sign of an addiction to masturbation, or a result of the cultural trend toward situational ethics. What ever the reason, it is what my moral conscience and life experience tells me is correct.

The Catechism says: (1782)

Of course, the Catechism also says (2039)

So the Church is telling me that I must not be prevented from acting according to my personal conscience and at the same time that I must not place my personal conscience in opposition to the Magisterium. This presents a moral dilemma for me.

I do endeavor to follow the Magisterium of the Church. However, at this point in time I can not reconcile my moral conscience with the Magisterium of the Church and choose to remain true to what I believe is right.

I had a dream last week. The night before I had that dream, I had asked Pope John Paul II to come to me in my sleep and explain how this moral teaching of the church can be valid in light of the suffering that I see created in the world through this teaching. The Pope did appear to me. He instructed me to not be concerned with these questions of sin. Rather, I should put my focus on living in union with God. He seemed to pull a Gold shaped paper ring off of a scapular and placed it on his finger. He said that through his practice and devotion to a life a prayer his ring was changed from paper to Gold and suggested I could do the same. He showed me the ring again and it had been transformed.

I do remain open to the possibility that I am misguided in my beliefs. I believe the Church may also be misguided in some of its moral theology. And, so I pray for my understanding and I pray for the Church as well. Following the directive from my dream I think it is time for me to leave behind these issues of whether masturbation is sinful and how sinful. I will follow my conscience with my eyes turned toward God. I can walk toward heaven face forward toward the light, or I can walk facing behind, staring back at sin. I’ll take the light and love.

Peace,
WornWheel

It all goes back to properly defining truth and conscience. Conscience is a pupil, not a teacher. Conscience is never above truth. So, yes you must follow your conscience, but conscience can be wrong. That is why it is a life long process to inform our conscience. We do this by following Christ’s teaching. He is the authority behind the Church.

 

[RichP]

The bigger picture is that I have stumbled on a big problem withing catholic marraiges.
My problems shows me that there are many men who feel the same way I do, who love their wives, but their wives are not reciprocating in the marital embrace.
Confirmed to me here, on other boards and also by priests, many men have uninterested wifes, and as one priest said, the wives need to be educated to their duties and responsibilities as married women.

That is the big picture.
It’s not something that can be made to go away by telling the men to just accept it.
Yes, communication is the key, but what if they do not listen?

Honestly, I do not have the answers to this question.

I understand your situation completely!

There may be many, many reasons why wives shut off their husbands. Sometimes it is because of the husband but it can be something with the wife. There may be something in her past (abuse, abortion, rape or attempted rape) that may now be bubbling to the surface. It may be extremely difficult for a wife to even acknowledge the issue in order for her to start doing something about it.

Here are your options if your wife does not listen or reciprocate the marital embrace:

1. 
   *]Stay in the marriage and remain chaiste (that is, faithful to your wife and to your wedding vows).
   *]Stay in the the marriage and find sexual relief somehow.
   *]Divorce your wife and seek an annulment.
   However, if you want your marriage to work, to be fulfilling, and to be holy as God intended, I recommend both you and your wife read Theology of the Body. Start with Christoper West’s books:
   1. 
      *]Theology Of The Body For Beginners
      *]Good News About Sex and Marriage: Answers to Your Honest Questions About Catholic Teaching
      *]Theology of the Body Explained: A Commentary on John Paul II’s “Gospel of the Body”
      Theology of the Body explains what it means to be a man, what it means to be a woman, and what it means to be married. It presents a totally different way of looking at marriage. (There is a lot more than just these topics in TOB…) After reading these, understanding the content, and applying it to your marriage, you will be so amazed and surprised at how beautiful and holy marriage really is…
      
      For me, Theology of the Body came too late. I decided to choose Doors #2 and #3 by leaving my wife because my physical and emotional needs were not being met for another woman who dumped me after a few months.
      
      If I had only known then about the Theology of the Body what I now know… the destruction of my marriage could have been avoided… I just didn’t understand…

 

[blessedtoo]

RichP,
That’s a very profound testimony. God bless you.

 

[PennitentMan]

Thanks for that Rich. I appreciate the testamony and the honesty.

I do realise what is expected of me as a Catholic Husband, so I will not choose door #2 willingly or door #3 at all.

I love and respect her and I realise that marraige is a covenant and it for life.

I’m sorry that your marriage ended, that is really tragic. It seems like you learnt from the mistakes and that is really all that you can do in this case.

My point is though, that there are a lot of men and women, Husbands and wifes, in situation number 1, feeling extremely unfulfilled and un-loved due to various reasons.
Communication is the first and most important thing.

I realise that things are not going to get better on their own, we really need to talk about it, and work at it. That is the only way to make things better…communication.

I’m posting here to see what can be done in the event that the other party in the marraige is unresponsive to this.

For the people who feel stuck in option number 1 with no way out…
But it seems like there *is *no way out, the only thing to do is to grid your teeth and take it like a man untill your spouse comes around.

 

[ElizabethAnne]

For the people who feel stuck in option number 1 with no way out…
But it seems like there *is *no way out, the only thing to do is to grid your teeth and take it like a man untill your spouse comes around.

PennitentMan,

I really respect your desire to do the right thing even if it is difficult. I also appreciate you willingness to “speak” on these forums about your situation and respond to the feedback you have received.

I am very saddened by the fact that you still have such a negative outlook on your situation. You talk about being “stuck” with “no way out.” All you say you can do is “grind your teeth and take it like a man.”

Is it possible for you to try to look at this differently? Could you try focusing on being thankful for having a wife, children, your life and a relationship with God? So much of what you have is so good and is something that others live without. It’s never easy to change the way we view things, but I pray that God will help you to magnify the many blessings He has poured out on you.

Happy Easter!

 

[PennitentMan]

PennitentMan,

I really respect your desire to do the right thing even if it is difficult. I also appreciate you willingness to “speak” on these forums about your situation and respond to the feedback you have received.

I am very saddened by the fact that you still have such a negative outlook on your situation. You talk about being “stuck” with “no way out.” All you say you can do is “grind your teeth and take it like a man.”

Is it possible for you to try to look at this differently? Could you try focusing on being thankful for having a wife, children, your life and a relationship with God? So much of what you have is so good and is something that others live without. It’s never easy to change the way we view things, but I pray that God will help you to magnify the many blessings He has poured out on you.

Happy Easter!

Thanks for the post ElizabethAnne, and thanks for the Easter wishes…same to you and your family!

You are right, of course, there is so much good in my life. And I do thank the Lord for it, I really do…many times.
I do realise that I’m not in a hopeless down-and-out place in my life at all.

However, 2 things:

1. In a marriage, I want to strive to make things as good as possible, so I address wherever there is something that needs addressing. My posts may seem one sided, but that is because they are so case-specific. And while I have a wonderful wife and family, it is a area where things are lacking.
2. Tying into the first item, the area I refer to is quite a big area just because it leaves the door so wide open for mortal sin. In these scenarios we are not only struggling to attain the best marriage possible, the other side of that coin is usually the struggle against mortal sin. That is the other reason why I address it here, to try and find ways to help me to steer clear of mortal sin.
   Late at night when the house is quiet and everyone is sleeping, this area of life becomes very large and menacing indeed. Satan can make things look like mountains at certain times. So it is with intimacy. When temptation hits, it’s extremely difficult to look away from it. It’s everywhere!
   In the deep of the night when I get tempted, it’s a very area indeed and I can’t help but think that if things were resolved in this area, I would not be tempted.

Being married, intimacy comes with the territory and can make or break marraiges, as we all have seen. being chaste is extremely difficult if you have an un-coperative spouse, so yes, it is very very tough and frustrating, even if things are going fine in the other areas.

 

[Joe_Stong]

Both the bible and constant Church teaching has told us that sex is good only if used inside marriage; specifically within the marital embrace.

Any use of the sexual faculty outside of the marital embrace is sinful. This is what the OT and the New teaches and what the Church from time immemorial has held to.

Now that ought to be enough for us to conclude that, inasmuch as masturbation is the intentional use of ones sexual organs outside the marital embrace, it is wrong, and hence sinful.

That’s the same reason why bestiality and homosexuality are wrong - apart from the immunological issues involved with non-physiologically healthy use of sexual organs - both involve the non-marital use of sexual organs. Both are EXPLICITLY condemned by both the OT and the New Testament.

But I know people are going to ask why.

The best answer is to look at the fruits in peoples’ lives: if it was no big deal (neutral) or even a good thing morally to do, then one would expect many saints and visionaries, people who we know for sure are doing God’s work and are blessed by God to be proponents of this habit.

But none have.

And those who are addicted to this habit would also show OTHER signs of holiness and virtue, not less - as tends to be the case.

Besides, if enjoying one’s sexual gifts outside of the marital embrace was neutral then why wouldn’t adultery - so long as the spouse didn’t know it - or bestiality - again so long as no one knew it - be wrong?

I know this posits that the marriage-only use of sexuality is normative. But sometimes one needs to work back from what is known to the unknown.

 

[PennitentMan]

Hi Joe.

Thanks for the post, allow me to address some of the issues.

Both the bible and constant Church teaching has told us that sex is good only if used inside marriage; specifically within the marital embrace.
Any use of the sexual faculty outside of the marital embrace is sinful. This is what the OT and the New teaches and what the Church from time immemorial has held to.
Now that ought to be enough for us to conclude that, inasmuch as masturbation is the intentional use of ones sexual organs outside the marital embrace, it is wrong, and hence sinful.

Actually, the bible speaks about all sorts of sexually immoral behaviour specifically…orgys, incest, homosexuality, bestiality, fornication and lust. Nowhere is masturbation mentioned. In Fact, the first time that masturbation was mentioned by any religious person was in the 6th century. ( religioustolerance.org/masturba10.htm )
Why is it to silent on Masturbation? Why didn’t God group this with fornication, or lust? It’s not mentioend anywhere. But that is my issue, that will never be answered.

Remember, on this thread we are talking about masturbation within marriage. Whether done alone, without lustful thoughts, or as a unitive act between husband and wife during fertile peroids for intimacy.

That’s the same reason why bestiality and homosexuality are wrong - apart from the immunological issues involved with non-physiologically healthy use of sexual organs - both involve the non-marital use of sexual organs. Both are EXPLICITLY condemned by both the OT and the New Testament.

It’s true that both bestiality and homsexuality are expressly forbidden by God as being disgusting and vile behaviour. He mentions them by name and expresses His intense distates for them. Why not mention masturbation?

But I know people are going to ask why.
The best answer is to look at the fruits in peoples’ lives: if it was no big deal (neutral) or even a good thing morally to do, then one would expect many saints and visionaries, people who we know for sure are doing God’s work and are blessed by God to be proponents of this habit.
But none have.

The only way to know that is if they expressely said, or wrote that they did it. We cannot know, so we cannot assume that they did or didn’t masturbate. The point is moot. Besides, most saints were clergymen and women, so whether they masturbated or not is not really the issue in this thread, since it’s subject is about masturbation in marraige.

Besides, if enjoying one’s sexual gifts outside of the marital embrace was neutral then why wouldn’t adultery - so long as the spouse didn’t know it - or bestiality - again so long as no one knew it - be wrong?
I know this posits that the marriage-only use of sexuality is normative. But sometimes one needs to work back from what is known to the unknown.

Not really, this thread is specifically about marriage only scenario and no other.

I hope I don’t come accross too agressive here, just trying to make my points.

In Christ,
PM

 

[Joe_Stong]

As I mentioned, the core sexual act within bestiality and sodomy is the intentional excitation of one’s sexual organs for the sake of pleasure outside the marital embrace (and in a non hetereosexual intercourse way at that).

Thus mastubation is what those who commit bestiality (having sex with an animal) and sodomy (having sex with a member of the same sex - by definition non-intercourse sex) actually are doing.

The “how” they excite themselves physically differs, but the “what” being excited in whom remains essentially the same between the person masturbating at home, alone, or doing so in the barnyard or bathhouse.

Thus while the bible doesn’t mention it by name, it definately nukes the whole time zone so to speak. If you can’t have sex with animals or members of the same sex (or people of the opposite sex not your spouse) who here thinks the principle of chastity involved in this wouldn’t or couldn’t also include having sex “with oneself”?

The bible, St. Paul for instance also condemns “dogs” - which as we all know masturbate both orally and against inanimate objects (or legs). It’s a euphemism for those who self-stimulate and not a moral condemnation of animals.

One might as well say that since the word “Trinity” is not explicitly in the Bible the concept and doctrine is “unbiblical”.

Finally, there’s the issue of doubt. If the moral licitness of an act is doubtful would it be OK to plow ahead with it on the presumption that “the church must be wrong”?

Within marriage certainly there’s foreplay which disposes the couple to be open to life in each other. But foreplay is not the same thing (it doesn’t have the same goal) as masturbation which is both the process and end of release in itself, by oneself, for oneself whereas truely Christian lovemaking ought to be other-directed for the other’s good (and not merely the others’ feeling good).

 

[MysticalMan]

As I mentioned, the core sexual act within bestiality and sodomy is the intentional excitation of one’s sexual organs for the sake of pleasure outside the marital embrace (and in a non hetereosexual intercourse way at that).

Thus mastubation is what those who commit bestiality (having sex with an animal) and sodomy (having sex with a member of the same sex - by definition non-intercourse sex) actually are doing.

The “how” they excite themselves physically differs, but the “what” being excited in whom remains essentially the same between the person masturbating at home, alone, or doing so in the barnyard or bathhouse.

Thus while the bible doesn’t mention it by name, it definately nukes the whole time zone so to speak. If you can’t have sex with animals or members of the same sex (or people of the opposite sex not your spouse) who here thinks the principle of chastity involved in this wouldn’t or couldn’t also include having sex “with oneself”?

The bible, St. Paul for instance also condemns “dogs” - which as we all know masturbate both orally and against inanimate objects (or legs). It’s a euphemism for those who self-stimulate and not a moral condemnation of animals.

One might as well say that since the word “Trinity” is not explicitly in the Bible the concept and doctrine is “unbiblical”.

Finally, there’s the issue of doubt. If the moral licitness of an act is doubtful would it be OK to plow ahead with it on the presumption that “the church must be wrong”?

Within marriage certainly there’s foreplay which disposes the couple to be open to life in each other. But foreplay is not the same thing (it doesn’t have the same goal) as masturbation which is both the process and end of release in itself, by oneself, for oneself whereas truely Christian lovemaking ought to be other-directed for the other’s good (and not merely the others’ feeling good).

I totally agree with the Theology here. It is really hard to come to grips with never fullfilling a fantasy to complete oral sex with one’s wife. Don’t most men have that fantasy? It just seems that there is some restrictions that a man can not engage in these acts with his wife. So in theory a man may never experience oral sex (I mean not for foreplay) with his wife? That seems a bit restrictive. I do agree with the Theology and Philosophy here though. I do assent to church teachings.

 

[PennitentMan]

As I mentioned, the core sexual act within bestiality and sodomy is the intentional excitation of one’s sexual organs for the sake of pleasure outside the marital embrace (and in a non heterosexual intercourse way at that).
Thus masturbation is what those who commit bestiality (having sex with an animal) and sodomy (having sex with a member of the same sex - by definition non-intercourse sex) actually are doing.
The “how” they excite themselves physically differs, but the “what” being excited in whom remains essentially the same between the person masturbating at home, alone, or doing so in the barnyard or bathhouse.

I don’t think you can really make this assumption, can you? I mean, if it was the same as bestiality and sodomy, God would have mentioned it when we was addressing the issue. But that’s just me thinking this way, I guess…
Masturbation is self-gratification and in this thread it is proposed to be applied inside the confines of marriage, either administered by one’s wife to completion, or by oneself when your wife is shutting herself off from you. In either case I do not think you can compare it to sex with animals.

Thus while the bible doesn’t mention it by name, it definitely nukes the whole time zone so to speak. If you can’t have sex with animals or members of the same sex (or people of the opposite sex not your spouse) who here thinks the principle of chastity involved in this wouldn’t or couldn’t also include having sex “with oneself”?
The bible, St. Paul for instance also condemns “dogs” - which as we all know masturbate both orally and against inanimate objects (or legs). It’s a euphemism for those who self-stimulate and not a moral condemnation of animals.

That is actually a personal interpretation. If it wasn’t then we would have hers of this comparison long ago from other sources.

One might as well say that since the word “Trinity” is not explicitly in the Bible the concept and doctrine is “unbiblical”.

Of course the doctrine is Biblical, Jesus said, go and baptise people in the mane if the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit…I’m not as legalistic as to say that the word is not in the bible, hence it’s okay, I’m saying it’s not mentioned, or even alluded to, to a relative degree of certainty.

Finally, there’s the issue of doubt. If the moral licitness of an act is doubtful would it be OK to plow ahead with it on the presumption that “the church must be wrong”?

I didn’t presume the Church was wrong, as far as I can remember, I think they need to address this issue, yes, and clarify it. I actually said even though I do not understand it, I’ll still live by it.

I am Catholic. I do not always understand all the rules, but I submit to them. I am not a dissident, I submit my will to theirs, God knows better than I do. I respect His commands and those of His Church, and if I stumble, I will go to confession.

I actually should stop posting here. I said so before and I came back, but I think I need to take a break.

in Christ,
PM

 

[Joe_Stong]

If by oral sex you mean stimulation to the point of ejaculation, then yes, that’s one fantasy one ought not indulge in. Almost all porn involves this activity though so I understand where the fantasy can come from.

It’s important to note too that not like every conceivable (no pun intended) sex fantasy is GOOD for you or the other!

The whole point of every temptation, sexual or not, is that some thing or action MIGHT make us FEEL GOOD. But not everything that feels good is good is good. Chocolate tastes good…too much can be bad for you. Smoking has a definate ‘good’ side effect of calming nerves, etc. but it’s “bad for you”. Giving free reign to one’s anger and really chewing someone out can - depending on your weakness - feel REALLY GOOD. But it’s not good to build up the habit of being angry and it’s almost never good for the person getting chewed out.

If subjective feeling was the maximum value then the sky literally would be the limit for what was “OK”. But there are other values and persons involved beyond our fantasy and so their good - the “objective” as opposed to subjective needs to be considered.

Now certainly accidents happen - unintended consequences of foreplay - orgasm in husband or wife during foreplay for example; that’s the unsought for, undesired physical reaction. Only you would know if things got a little out of hand and to what degree you were free to say “OK, that’s enough”.

Some theologians have advanced the case that should the husband reach climax the ordinary way (intercourse) while the wife did not, it may be moral to continue foreplay and stimulation including oral until she experiences her post-intercourse orgasm. I must confess I don’t know if this is right or not. It seems right in that the goal of the husband is to “complete the act” begun in intercourse which had the dual purpose of being open to life (ejaculating into the woman’s V) and the unitive aspect of helping the intimacy of the couple by their mutual climax.

But on the one hand it seems that orgasm is not necessary for ejaculation for the man (ED and PE sufferers for example) and their mutual climax is not always possible either. If they had to both climax for the act to be moral then being interrupted by a needy child, house fire, or other simple exhaustion would be sinful…but that can’t be the case surely.

So it seems there’s a bit of the cross involved here. Some men and women in holy matrimony might not regularly or only rarely experience climax in their intercourse together. Maybe “perfect sex” is NOT required after all and we’re all struggling to live up to impossible expectations foisted on us by the porn industry.

 

[PennitentMan]

Maybe “perfect sex” is NOT required after all and we’re all struggling to live up to impossible expectations foisted on us by the porn industry.

It’s true that we have some misinterpretations directly due to the porn industry. It’s a really evil and horrible thing.

But I don’t think it’s only about what is “required”. Then it becomes only about the procreative aspect.

There is more to spousal intimacy than procreation, there is also the unitive aspect. Everyone wants perfect sex and I’ll do whatever I can to give my wife that. Othewise, what’s the use? It will turn into just another formality, just another duty, just another somethign that needs to be done…
Some people do want to place spousal intimacy into this category (Not you included Joe, I don’t know you at all, so I cannot make that assumption). They do not want it to be pleasurable or fun, just “go behind that closed toor in that pitch-black room, and come out 5 minutes later pregnant, please.”

Husband and wife needs to be united, body and soul. If it’s only about what is required and no room is left for sharing and enjoyment of the act, then we get unhappy sex-lives in marriages and we are right back where we started.
Frustration.

Just my thoughts.
PM

 

[Joe_Stong]

There is an infinite number of “ways” of being devoted and loving in marital relations (sexual and not) that don’t involve porn-star “moves” such as oral sex.

And there’s also an enourmous latitude for dating couples to express their love for each other without going too far either…

Limits to what we can do don’t make love cold and restricted unless you have a fixed idea that only the forbidden acts are “love” whereas all the other gentle, romantic moves are “same-old, same-old, stuff”.

Let’s be honest here: the secular world focuses on the physical ecstacy of sexual stimulation whereas the true Catholic and human ecstacy of intimacy ought to be MORE than that. Prayerful, gentle, devoted, playful intimacy - something that takes it’s time, doesn’t rush, isn’t greedy, isn’t seeking a particular “High”.

The worldly view of sex is definately focused on the body and what hidden wells of physical pleasure it can produce - thus the drive for ever new “positions” or tricks, or toys, or gadgets, or exercises… ever new contorted and risky behaviors… pushing the limits of health and sanity to achieve that “high” all while sneering at “the bad old ways” which are considered “boring”.

I dare say though that marriages tended to last decades or lifetimes, and raise healthy, happy and sane children in the “old ways” whereas the new “progressive” ways of life don’t seem to even come close to producing lasting happiness, health and sanity.

Finally, I think it is vital for any struggling with issues of “conscience” to re-read (or read for the first time) the Pope’s encyclical Veritatis Splendor (the splendor of truth) where he explains the dynamics between conscience and truth/subjective understanding and objective Church teaching.

Of particular importance is paragraph 64 which I will quote:

"The words of Jesus just quoted (Mt. 6:22-23) also represent a call to FORM OUR CONSCIENCE, to make it the object of a continuous conversion to what is true and to what is good. In the same vein, Saint Paul exhorts us not to be conformed to the mentality of this world, but to be transformed by the renewal of our mind (cf. Romans 12:2). It is the “heart” converted to the Lord and to the love of what is good which is really the source of TRUE judgments of conscience. Indeed, in order to “prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect”, knowledge of God’s law in general is certainly necessary, but it is not sufficient: what is essential is a sort of “connaturality’ between man and the true good. Such a connaturality is rooted in and develops through the virtuous attitudes of the individual himself: prudence and the other cardinal virtues, and even before these the theological virtues of faith, hope, and charity. This is the meaning of Jesus’ saying: “He who does what is true comes to the Light” (Jn 3:21). Christians have a great help for the formation of their conscience in the Church and her magisterium. As the Council affirms:
In forming their consciences the Christian faithful must give careful attention to the sacred and certain teaching of the Church. For the Catholic Church is by the will of Christ the teacher of truth…”

 

[RichP]

PennitentMan,

I appreciate your postings as I think your concerns and issues are shared by many, many other husbands in similar situations. You are their voice!

Thanks for the post 1) In a marriage, I want to strive to make things as good as possible, so I address wherever there is something that needs addressing. My posts may seem one sided, but that is because they are so case-specific. And while I have a wonderful wife and family, it is a area where things are lacking.

1. Tying into the first item, the area I refer to is quite a big area just because it leaves the door so wide open for mortal sin. In these scenarios we are not only struggling to attain the best marriage possible, the other side of that coin is usually the struggle against mortal sin. That is the other reason why I address it here, to try and find ways to help me to steer clear of mortal sin.
   Late at night when the house is quiet and everyone is sleeping, this area of life becomes very large and menacing indeed. Satan can make things look like mountains at certain times. So it is with intimacy. When temptation hits, it’s extremely difficult to look away from it. It’s everywhere!
   In the deep of the night when I get tempted, it’s a very area indeed and I can’t help but think that if things were resolved in this area, I would not be tempted.

Being married, intimacy comes with the territory and can make or break marraiges, as we all have seen. being chaste is extremely difficult if you have an un-coperative spouse, so yes, it is very very tough and frustrating, even if things are going fine in the other areas.

All of us struggle with temptation and mortal sin. Satan is attacking families and fathers in particular trying to rob us of what it means to be a man. We cannot fight Satan alone. Because if we do, he’ll smack us down hard. We need God fighting for us. We can be victorious by turning to God through prayer, especially during those times of temptation.

When we marry, we are not “entitled” to have sex whenever we want it or whenever we need it. Not only are we charged with “go forth and multiply” but we are also called to chastity within marriage. Chastity in marriage? Huh? Yes! If we engage in sex without our spouse (i.e. adultry, masturbation, etc.) we are not being chaste. If we are having sex with our spouse because we are lusting for them, then we are commiting a sin. Make intimate relations with your spouse loving, exciting, and holy.

Make Jesus your role model. Jesus gave himself totally to us at the Last Supper, just as we are called to do in marriage. When Say to your spouse the words of Jesus, “This is my body which is given to you.” This means that your body is not for you to satisfy your carnal desires. Rather you sacrifice your body to your marriage so that you and your spouse can “become one flesh”.

 

[PennitentMan]

PennitentMan,

I appreciate your postings as I think your concerns and issues are shared by many, many other husbands in similar situations. You are their voice!

All of us struggle with temptation and mortal sin. Satan is attacking families and fathers in particular trying to rob us of what it means to be a man. We cannot fight Satan alone. Because if we do, he’ll smack us down hard. We need God fighting for us. We can be victorious by turning to God through prayer, especially during those times of temptation.

When we marry, we are not “entitled” to have sex whenever we want it or whenever we need it. Not only are we charged with “go forth and multiply” but we are also called to chastity within marriage. Chastity in marriage? Huh? Yes! If we engage in sex without our spouse (i.e. adultry, masturbation, etc.) we are not being chaste. If we are having sex with our spouse because we are lusting for them, then we are commiting a sin. Make intimate relations with your spouse loving, exciting, and holy.

Make Jesus your role model. Jesus gave himself totally to us at the Last Supper, just as we are called to do in marriage. When Say to your spouse the words of Jesus, “This is my body which is given to you.” This means that your body is not for you to satisfy your carnal desires. Rather you sacrifice your body to your marriage so that you and your spouse can “become one flesh”.

Thanks Rich, that is great advice.
I agree that we should strive at all times to be chaste. It’s every catholic person’s calling. Chastity is not the same as celibacy, and we all should strive for chastity.

This issue is my cross that I have to bear. I will continue to strive to keep holy and pure and chaste as far as I possible can. And when I stumble, I’ll run to confession. That is how our Lord has willed it.
I really am thankful for so many things in my life.

It’s just a pity that spousal sex drives differ so much. Maybe I’m putting too much emphasis on this, I’m willing to look at that option, but the yearning is sometimes just unbearable. But I strive to live a good and pure life, being the best husband and father I can be.

PM

 

[ReeferShepard]

Seriously? I don’t know what sex you are, but being male myself, it is like taking a shower, seriously. If this is regarded as a sin, then taking a shower is a sin.

Think about it, men’s semen gets replenished constantly, and about every two weeks, it is completely recycled…if not “used” then, it will come out in a “wet dream.” It’s like if you don’t shower, you will smell.

 

[RichP]

Seriously? I don’t know what sex you are, but being male myself, it is like taking a shower, seriously. If this is regarded as a sin, then taking a shower is a sin.

Think about it, men’s semen gets replenished constantly, and about every two weeks, it is completely recycled…if not “used” then, it will come out in a “wet dream.” It’s like if you don’t shower, you will smell.

Yes, Seriously! I am not quite sure what you mean by “like taking a shower”… It is actually the opposite of a shower. It dirties your soul.

You remember the old admonition of “If you keep doing it, you’ll go blind.” And the old response, “How about if I keep doing it until I need eyeglasses?” Well, there is some truth to the admonition except the blindness is not a physical blindness but rather a moral and spiritual blindness to the truth of its sinfulness and how it corrupts one’s heart and soul.

Think about it!

And it has nothing to do with “wet dreams”.