Masturbation and Addiction

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God made women and they can be looked at as attractive. I am a man so I know that one can see an attractive woman and not lust after her. I can see that God does make beauty and still have self control. No one should look at women as disgusting. This is not only absurd but contrary to the will of God. If a single man followed your advice he would never get married. . .

That being said, I do see in your posts a high regard for morality and chastity. I do commend you for those views. I’m sure that you do have the utmost respect for women and that your statement was probably hyperbole to make a point but if not you might reconsider since women are beautiful both inside and out. They are not merely evil temptations and God never created them as such…God Bless…teachccd
Thank you for your kindness. However I must respond that no it’s not hyperbole, it’s a necessary mental adjustment to undo the harmful psychological associations and habits that come of concupiscence and build up from looking at women for sensual pleasure. You can’t undo that habit by a neutral reaction you have to use an opposing one.

If you don’t use an opposing one you will always be drawn into the occasion of sin because of the built up bad habit and your lack of awareness of danger.

Have you ever seen a little boy hear talk of kissing and girls and go ‘ick’? That is the proper reaction. 🙂 And what I am describing works for adults as well, I have seen it work.

Even someone who isn’t Christian can overcome concupiscence by this method. I learned it from an agnostic Jew (please pray for him). Which proves by the way, that one is always given the ability interiorly to avoid sin, without extraordinary graces. Even this one.

Also, there’s nothing evil in doing it, it’s not sinful in the slightest, the saints did exactly that – it’s a mental adjustment.

So when you say, ‘it is contrary to the will of God’ you have bought into something that is not a teaching of God, but opposed to it. There’s nothing evil in being disgusted by sin or the near occasion of sin. In fact, hating the world or hating things that are ‘natural goods’ is part of becoming a saint, and not just in regards to matters of lust, but all sorts of things.

It is a teaching of the world that has filtered into some teachers in positions in the Church who have promoted sexuality as all ‘good’ and wonderful that makes many say what you have I fear, because it has made men who would otherwise be prudent and avoid looking too much at women become imprudent to what is a near occasion of sin to them.

And we are not allowed to take pleasure in near occasions of sin, it is in fact an unnatural reaction to do so. A natural reaction would be to be disgusted and horrified and any occasion of risk to the soul that could send it to Hell and be a sin against God, and to value the sensual as DUST in the face of that.

If an orange causes you to sin from gluttony, if you mentally trick yourself into being disgusted by oranges you are doing yourself a favor, however ‘good’ oranges are. And for a person afflicted by concupiscence to pretend a neutral approach will work, well. It doesn’t. The same goes for the appearances of people, or anything else.

These responses were given to us by God for the sake of our souls.

I’m trying to teach people an actually effective method for becoming pure of heart rather than the garbage that hasn’t worked for people in the past that gets spewed out these days, the filth from Hell that teaches embracing sexual desires outside of marriage and pretending this is a good thing, and teaches ‘look but don’t lust’ in regards to near occasions of sin.

The psychological link between lust and looking at women is very strong once it is in place. It takes a lot of work to undo it. Also, demons will tempt a person with lust directly at first, but when it is overcome, they will tempt a person with the ‘innocent’ pleasure of enjoying looking at women (which normally is not innocent, but is sensual and mistakenly distinguished from lust when it isn’t by the way). So it will be a demonic temptation for someone trying for purity of heart of pleasure of looking at women and you can’t oppose this neutrally, you have to oppose it with the irascible appetites, that is hate, disgust, etc.

You have to oppose the devil directly.

Now, there is mentally appreciating beauty and there is sensually appreciating beauty – few people actually know the difference. They just think they do and fool themselves. The disgust you create will never destroy real intellectual appreciation of beauty because it’s not a sensual appreciation which sensual disgust can only apply to. And you shouldn’t be wasting your time spending much effort on intellectually appreciating women who aren’t your spouse’s beauty normatively either. It may not be unfaithful but it’s a waste of time and smacks of it if you go far with it.

Now I have said all this but if you do not believe me I will gladly repeat the words of the saints saying it, there’s an invisible footnote on all of what I have said above – But I think most people already can fill the footnotes in themselves and bring the scriptures to mind.

All should be aware of the scriptures and their sayings already – and many probably just mistakenly said ‘hyperbole’.

So many do interprete the words of Christ and the saints as ‘hyperbole’, when they as Christ mean what they say quite literally, and that is why so many fail to proceed, because they make that mistake ‘the saints can’t be serious’, ‘Christ can’t be serious’.

No they are! 🙂

Read the scriptures on the moral and spiritual life literally and -take them to heart- that way. Try to understand interiorly the meaning of each. 🙂
 
I don’t think there is anything we can ever do to become more pure in this life. There is no amount of fire and torture that ever pay the price for the filth I have engaged in.

Picks up a cattail Well, that’s no reason not to try!

:hmmm: Methinks it’d be better, not to think of women as disgusting, but perhaps, the idea of lust as so. Or whatever fantasies one might have, or perhaps, our disordered desires.

But I can’t help but think it mean to think of a woman as disgusting. Further, impossible. God clearly must’ve been showing off when He made them. Men, though…I just don’t see the appeal…😛

I mean to say…If there’s really anything to be disgusted about, it ought to be sin, yes?

Oh, I don’t know.
Have you ever seen a little boy hear talk of kissing and girls and go ‘ick’? That is the proper reaction. And what I am describing works for adults as well, I have seen it work.
 
But I’ve always wondered, “It isn’t my eye that makes me to sin, but my mind which points it towards evil. And my hand does no real evil on its own, it just collaborates with the evil my mind directs it towards. So, why should I cut off my hand or gouge out my eye when the problem is my brain? Clearly, if the parable were to be taken literally, my soul would be better served if I blasted my brains out.”

Which, again, is a sin. sigh 🤷
Ok…not to disrespect the seriousness of ur post, but this part had me laughing out loud…:p:rotfl:
 
Ok…not to disrespect the seriousness of ur post, but this part had me laughing out loud…:p:rotfl:
No disrespect taken, sir! One is happy to amuse, further, that you should laugh about it clearly indicates the very serious nature of the conclusion!

After all, we mustn’t be too eager to place blame on things for our sins! “Ah, but it was my flesh, my weak flesh!” “Nay! My corrupted spirit!” “Fool! My perverse mind!” “Alak! My pitiable circumstances!” “My fallen nature!”

No amount of amputation can remove from me my rebellious spirit, though I must admit, it’s very delightful to hear the cries of clemency the body emits when the blade is near the flesh.
 
So when you say, ‘it is contrary to the will of God’ you have bought into something that is not a teaching of God, but opposed to it. There’s nothing evil in being disgusted by sin or the near occasion of sin. In fact, hating the world or hating things that are ‘natural goods’ is part of becoming a saint, and not just in regards to matters of lust, but all sorts of things.
I read in your previous post that we must find women disgusting and not just the sin of lust. Women are not disgusting, we are when we lust after them. I fully believe that we are on the same page but I just needed to clarify what I thought you had said. Thank you and keep up the good fight. Our culture is in a downward spiral and we need a moral facelift more than ever…God bless…teachccd
 
My point is that not everybody can life a masturbation free life. I would go as far as to suggest that 80% (probably more) of good decent single people who are practicing Catholics do this at least on occasion. I never said it was morally acceptable. But for them to grovel in a pit of shame and despair over it to the brink of insanity isn’t helpful either. It is what it is!
And what is it? It’s a sin.
I don’t think there is anything we can ever do to become more pure in this life. There is no amount of fire and torture that ever pay the price for the filth I have engaged in. God is fully aware of our condition which is terminal. But praise be to God for Jesus and what he did for us. Only Jesus can be my purification.
When will Jesus purify you? Now is the time to start.
 
When will Jesus purify you? Now is the time to start.
The bible says that the blood of Christ shed on Calvary is our purification:
**“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” 1 John 1:7

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to make myself pure enough to enter heaven:
"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Isaiah 64:6
 
The reason why you haven’t over come it yet is very likely simply that you still actually like it. You have to change your habitual reaction to disgust, and avoid the occasion of sin – become disgusted with that too.

If you do that you will overcome this.

Avoid not only the sin, but the occasion of sin – and that means a LOT of entertainment.

But it’s simple. Stop looking at women. Stop liking to look at women. Think of them as disgusting rather than attractive. Don’t worry, but you have to correct in the opposite fashion you can’t just be neutral. You’re too used to looking at them for pleasure – even when it isn’t a cause of sin, it’s still an occasion.

So work in the opposite fashion. Hate the sin. Actually, really, just hate it. Do whatever mental adjustments or tricks make you hate it and whatever tempts you to it. Do this and you will not have a problem.

3 Aves, the St. Michael prayer, and some more – morning and evening…

Prove yourself worthy of God’s purity and He will grant it to you.

If your initial reaction, rather than late reaction is disgust, you won’t even be able to be temptable in your dreams by the devils. Then you will truly have the purity and fidelity you require to be clean before the Lord’s altar.
There is nothing disgusting about attractive women. Looking at attractive women is a very natural and pleasurable male behavior. God made us that way. We must acknowledge the incredible power of the powerfully animalistic raw nature of our sexuality. Your advice to think of beautiful women as “disgusting” is crazymaking and the perfect set-up for sexual dysfunction or even sexual addiction!

The problem is how the entertainment industry has influenced our culture to the point where this awesome force in shoved in our face 24/7.

The best advice I can give a young man who is struggling with this is to make a committment to start slowly by learning to practice self control. It’s probably not reasonable to expect a teenager with raging hormones to live like a celibate monk in a cave with no women, magazines, internet or television around for 800 miles. But he can practice avoiding bad influences and immodest images and entertainment.

As he grows through his adult years, he can become a good influence on others around him by demonstrating modesty and self control. Decline a buddy’s invitation to the local strip club. Change the conversation when people start praising immoral behavior. Turn the TV off at and read the New Testament on Sunday night. Be a good son, husband and father when the time comes. Set a good example for others. This is manhood!

You don’t need be a stick in the mud… When I am around the guys and they see a beautiful girl, I do not chime in with their filthy comments. Rather I say something like: “Yes, she is a beautiful girl” or… “Wow, God is indeed an incredible artist!”

While we may never achieve perfection, we can always improve our moral state by *practicing *our self control. Be a force for good in this world. Wallowing in guilt helps nobody.

:cool:
 
I can see there is so far on the part of some no comprehension among some of the psychological and spiritual reasons that necessitate the method described above, and what I have been seeing is a confusion about moral issues that I want to make clear do not apply here. So I will make a little further explanation then leave it at that, if anyone wishes to ask me questions openly feel free. I am not here for debates over misunderstandings of what I have said, though I will make clarifications. I’m here to help people who are at a stage I can help them at, and who desire it rather than conflicts or debates. 🙂

There are many reasons that necessitate a method using the negative appetites including – predisposition to the opposite that must be compensated for, the necessity not to be distracted by demonic temptations nor to initially react positively to them, and that the sensual is not to be compared to the spiritual good, nor an object of direct focus.

There is deceit in these times that men must embrace as good all ‘natural’ sensual goods. This is a complete and diabolical error. Natural goods often must be reacted to negatively for a proper spiritual life. Period. It is not a moral evil to do so, nor does it affect the fundamental object itself, it is all about the human person and what is necessary for spiritual freedom and growth when a person has been enslaved in some fashion by a sensual or ‘natural’ good through a wrong reaction of desire for them rather than rejection.

Moreover this is not about ‘natural goods’ but about spiritual and moral good which uses the negative and positive appetites to achieve union with God and purity of heart, and does not use them properly when it attaches merely to sensual good to the detriment of the spiritual life. This is not about women fundamentally but about those appearances which must be rejected because they are near occasions of sin and sin to a man.

The concupiscible appetite which is what either produces desire or repelling within a person can be trained to react one way or another. If it is trained to repel that which is sin and a near occasion of sin, a person will not be able to be tempted in these regards and regain to a certain extent the natural control that man originally and is supposed to have over the interior life.

All the scriptures about love and hate, and the necessity for hating the world are in many ways fundamentally and first about this! A revelation for some I pray who will embrace it! 🙂

I think those who do realize their need for a working method and the failure of other methods and take the time to think it through will make use of this effective psychological adjustment, and realize the invalidity of the complaints in their own spiritual life swiftly. 🙂
Code:
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and a pretentious life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.
1 John 2:15-17
 
I can see there is so far on the part of some no comprehension among some of the psychological and spiritual reasons that necessitate the method described above, and what I have been seeing is a confusion about moral issues that I want to make clear do not apply here. So I will make a little further explanation then leave it at that, if anyone wishes to ask me questions openly feel free. I am not here for debates over misunderstandings of what I have said, though I will make clarifications. I’m here to help people who are at a stage I can help them at, and who desire it rather than conflicts or debates. 🙂

There are many reasons that necessitate a method using the negative appetites including – predisposition to the opposite that must be compensated for, the necessity not to be distracted by demonic temptations nor to initially react positively to them, and that the sensual is not to be compared to the spiritual good, nor an object of direct focus.

There is deceit in these times that men must embrace as good all ‘natural’ sensual goods. This is a complete and diabolical error. Natural goods often must be reacted to negatively for a proper spiritual life. Period. It is not a moral evil to do so, nor does it affect the fundamental object itself, it is all about the human person and what is necessary for spiritual freedom and growth when a person has been enslaved in some fashion by a sensual or ‘natural’ good through a wrong reaction of desire for them rather than rejection.

Moreover this is not about ‘natural goods’ but about spiritual and moral good which uses the negative and positive appetites to achieve union with God and purity of heart, and does not use them properly when it attaches merely to sensual good to the detriment of the spiritual life. This is not about women fundamentally but about those appearances which must be rejected because they are near occasions of sin and sin to a man.

The concupiscible appetite which is what either produces desire or repelling within a person can be trained to react one way or another. If it is trained to repel that which is sin and a near occasion of sin, a person will not be able to be tempted in these regards and regain to a certain extent the natural control that man originally and is supposed to have over the interior life.

All the scriptures about love and hate, and the necessity for hating the world are in many ways fundamentally and first about this! A revelation for some I pray who will embrace it! 🙂

I think those who do realize their need for a working method and the failure of other methods and take the time to think it through will make use of this effective psychological adjustment, and realize the invalidity of the complaints in their own spiritual life swiftly. 🙂
Code:
Do not love the world or the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, sensual lust, enticement for the eyes, and a pretentious life, is not from the Father but is from the world.
Yet the world and its enticement are passing away. But whoever does the will of God remains forever.
1 John 2:15-17
I guess if that helps you for the time being, but how will you ever meet your future wife if you don’t see her completely as herself, outside as well as inside? Unless, of course, you are friends and become more, but will you even look at her? If you’re eyes aren’t open to her, how will you see her if you are so afraid of sinning? (symbolically speaking)
 
The bible says that the blood of Christ shed on Calvary is our purification:
***“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” ***1 John 1:7

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to make myself pure enough to enter heaven:
"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Isaiah 64:6
But we must “walk in the light” as well. We can’t expect to be purified if we don’t make an effort to flee from sin as the scripture says. I ask the Lord to help me walk in the light so that His will come about, but if I don’t put forth the effort, it won’t happen. I’ve found recently that if we put forth the effort to be pure and die to bad habits, that is when the Lord’s blessing comes in, and there is always His grace there to help us do it, but it really is us who have to make the effort to begin with asking for help when needed.
 
The bible says that the blood of Christ shed on Calvary is our purification:
***“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.” ***1 John 1:7

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to make myself pure enough to enter heaven:
"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Isaiah 64:6
So are you pure right now?
 
I guess if that helps you for the time being, but how will you ever meet your future wife if you don’t see her completely as herself, outside as well as inside? Unless, of course, you are friends and become more, but will you even look at her? If you’re eyes aren’t open to her, how will you see her if you are so afraid of sinning? (symbolically speaking)
You need not worry about this in the slightest, this will not get in the way of Godly love.

In fact, a person who does these things will see her more clearly than any man, because he will see her with eyes that see through to the soul.

People say I am rigorous, but I am not rigorous, I am very very soft and lax. There is much more rigor necessary than what I have said so far. :confused:

If a man and woman would be ashamed to do anything with each other, being witnessed by someone else not yet involved who would later be their spouse, they should not do it.

Because that person -will- see them, he -will- know in the end. Both the actions, and the thoughts, that person -will- see. All -will- be revealed.

And the angels, saints, and the Lord all see already. They know how corrupt you truly are, and how it is time to change.

‘The time has come: you must wake up now.’

Romans 13:11
 
The

There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I can do to make myself pure enough to enter heaven:
"All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away." Isaiah 64:6
yes there is… you can spend time with Jesus in the Real Presence (in the Church 24/7)… and (of course) the longer the better…

and you can pray the rosary… as often as possible. Both these things prepare one for Heaven…
 
There is nothing disgusting about attractive women. Looking at attractive women is a very natural and pleasurable male behavior. God made us that way. We must acknowledge the incredible power of the powerfully animalistic raw nature of our sexuality. Your advice to think of beautiful women as “disgusting” is crazymaking and the perfect set-up for sexual dysfunction or even sexual addiction!

l:
maybe I’ve been celibate too long or whatever… but i do not think there should be much indulgence in the “powerfully animalist… nature of” sex… Not all sex acts are - or should be - described this way…

why do people separate their sexuality from their spirituality??

i think that’s one thing wrong with the world… and also wrong with people in the Church… they compartmentalize things like this…

(the term: holy matrimony comes to mind)
 
maybe I’ve been celibate too long or whatever… but i do not think there should be much indulgence in the “powerfully animalist… nature of” sex… Not all sex acts are - or should be - described this way…

why do people separate their sexuality from their spirituality??

i think that’s one thing wrong with the world… and also wrong with people in the Church… they compartmentalize things like this…

(the term: holy matrimony comes to mind)
Amen!

----“And God created man in His own image: to the image of God He created him: male and female He created him.” Gen. 1:27
 
i know what you are trying to say but i feel your words are, as words normally are… inadequate… to a certain extent…

reading this would tend to cause one to think that masturbation is OK in certain situations, even though i KNOW you are NOT saying that…

The Word of God makes an exception for sexual sins, saying (paraphrase) that they are worse than other sins… the guilty one sins against his very body… It says this as thought that is much worse than other kinds of sins… which (the saints agree) it IS…

***more people go to Hell because of sexual impurity than any other sin… ***

some saint said that and it has also been revealed to me, personally, to be true (though i realize i can’t prove it, absolutely…)…

It may seem repetitious of me, but i do feel that the analogy i spoke of earlier… of the people who fall into the muddy ditch is the best way to explain this problem of how sinful masturbation is… (It is one of the last posts for today, Friday)… #104

Basically, it doesn’t matter HOW one gets defiled… s/he must get UN-defiled in order to etner Heaven where ther is nothing impure…

What is really terrible about these serious kinds of sins is that they even take away our very desire for Heaven… :eek: :eek: We get stuck on “the creature, rather than the Creator”… what God has given us instead of God Himself…

this is important since…

we are to love God with all our hearts and minds… this is the 1st and greatest Commandment…
Very, very well written.
well if you have TRIPLE the testostorne of any average man, like i do(and i’m 16) then its basically inevitable. God made it like that.
George, I know what you are going through. I was that age once. And I know that our modern culture makes thinks several orders harder.

But the sin remains a sin. It is an fundamental misuse of our bodies. It is also yoked to other sins (lust, pornography, gluttony, etc.). Christ was very bold when He said that we are better off to poke out our eyes than lust in our hearts.

Of course Christ does not want us to remove our eyes from their sockets. He wants us to strive for holiness. Just giving in by saying ‘I can’t help it’ or ‘it’s natural’ is not sufficient. Yes, prayer is absolutely necessary to overcome this. But there is more and it might be different given the person. I do not watch much television because it is hyper-sexualized. I also attend Mass throughout the week (I realize this is not practical for a lot of us).

A powerful meditation is the Rosary, which admittedly I have not said in a couple of weeks. But several Hail Mary prayers while picturing our spiritual mother, her grace and sinlessness, and how she certainly wants all her Son’s brothers to treat all women as sisters should be treated.

Keep in mind, change does not happen overnight. My priest reminded us of that. We cannot let a mistake get us down, or make us think we are failures. As long as we recognize our sin and earnestly confess it (and do our penance), we will continue to heal.

Another poster had a great analogy - build your spiritual castle to protect against the devil in what ways best defend you.

Really consider taking on something that will keep you away from whatever it is leading you to sin. You said that your pray a lot and that is excellent. Keep with it and beg God for grace. And he will give it; I know this is true.
 
maybe I’ve been celibate too long or whatever… but i do not think there should be much indulgence in the “powerfully animalist… nature of” sex… Not all sex acts are - or should be - described this way…

why do people separate their sexuality from their spirituality??

i think that’s one thing wrong with the world… and also wrong with people in the Church… they compartmentalize things like this…

(the term: holy matrimony comes to mind)
Our sexuality is a gift from God and it should never be completely separated from our spirituality. However there needs to be a boundary. Eroticism is an important component of the sexual experience, but it mixes with prayer like oil and water. There is a time and a place for everything.
:cool:
 
Our sexuality is a gift from God and it should never be completely separated from our spirituality. However there needs to be a boundary. Eroticism is an important component of the sexual experience, but it mixes with prayer like oil and water. There is a time and a place for everything.
:cool:
:confused:

Isn’t the Song of Songs a prayer of thanksgiving and praise? It seems pretty erotic to me…
 
Our sexuality is a gift from God and it should never be completely separated from our spirituality. However there needs to be a boundary. Eroticism is an important component of the sexual experience, but it mixes with prayer like oil and water. There is a time and a place for everything.
:cool:
maybe i have an overly exalted view of what sex should be (i doubt it)… but i heartily disagree…

sex for me (if i ever “go there” again, which is highly unlikely)… is a spiritual experience… because i would be as intimate with another human being, created in God’s image, as a person can be… The two shall become one flesh… God is love… so sex with someone you really love is about as close to Heaven as you can get on this earth…
 
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