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spiderweb
Guest
And if that is the case, that could also be sinful.
edit: didn’t realize pensmama87 already said as much
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edit: didn’t realize pensmama87 already said as much
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LilyM
Guest
Yes, it is possible. But we tend to get addicted or truly enslaved to.things that are easily available and make no (or few) demands or requirements of us in return.
being as marital sex is about co–operation between spouses it’s far less likely to develop into the sort of compulsion that constitutes true addiction or enslavement. As has been pointed out, mariage requires self-sacrifice and self-giving. This is at least a partial antidote to the self-centred focus on ones own enjoyment to the exclusion of all else that is masturbation.
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EasterJoy
Guest
You may as well say that because there are gluttons who ruin their health by eating too much food that it is OK to eat paint. One observation does not lead to the other.
The difference between marital sex and masturbation is that there is a chaste way to engage in marital sex, whereas masturbation is unchaste by its very nature. It is self-centered by its very nature.
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fromckcc
Guest
Since Paul said spouses shouldn’t withhold themselves from each other, then sex can be readily available to those spouses. How then can this not lead to addiction?
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UbiCaritas
Guest
In order not to starve to death, one must eat fairly regularly. How does that not lead to addiction?
Answer: by not prioritizing the enjoyment of food unduly over everything else. Basically, the same way that one doesn’t get addicted to any other reasonable pleasure (alcohol in moderation, sex, hobbies, etc).
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fromckcc
Guest
What if one doesn’t prioritize masturbation?
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LilyM
Guest
Not everyone who goes into a chocolate shop with free samples, or an all-you-can-eat buffet gorges themselves compulsively.
To avoid doing so in such a situation requires that one exercise self-control and self-discipline.
Virtues which are eroded when one forms a habit of frequently indulging in self-centred pleasure-seeking activity. Masturbation is exactly that, to the extreme.
It is precisely because you have so over-indulged in selfish sexual activity in your own life that you now see your addiction as normal and find it difficult to understand that moderation and self-control are just as achievable, and necessary, in matters sexual as they are in respect of food, alcohol, spending, or anything else.
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1ke
Guest
It is intrinsically evil. That means of itself. It can never be morally chosen.
The three fonts of morality are the object chosen, the end, and the circumstances.
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LilyM
Guest
The key word is ‘unduly’. Everyyhing that has a place in its proper place. Some activities, like taking illicit drugs, homosexual sex or masturbation, have no proper place at all and so should be avoided entirely.
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CompSciGuy
Guest
Are you looking for evidence from Church teaching? That has already been provided.
Or are you looking for scientific or empirical evidence? OK, I can give you that too. The reproductive part is obvious: sex definitely leads to reproduction. All you need to know this is to attend biology 101. As for the bonding part, when you engage in intercourse (hopefully with your spouse) a number of very potent hormones and neurotransmitters are released in the brain:
The first is dopamine, which is a “reward” neurotransmitter. The reason why dopamine is released is obvious: because biologically through evolution we as a species have been trained to reproduce, and so our body rewards us for it. The same goes for eating a delicious food, dopamine is released in this case (though probably not as potent).
The second and most important thing released in the brain is a hormone called oxytocin. This is the bonding hormone. It is released other times as well, such as when a woman breastfeeds, or when two close friends hug or share their joys and fears together. During sex and orgasm, a large amount of oxytocin is released, emotionally bonding the two partners very strongly as mates.
Now think about what is happening when you masturbate to porn or to impure thoughts. These neurochemicals are being released and your receptors are firing like crazy. But there isn’t an “other” to bond to. There is no spouse, no companion, just you and a screen. What you are really doing is bonding yourself more to the porn, the mental images, and ultimately to yourself. This is not the way God intended it.
This is why the Church is against pornography, masturbation, casual hookups, fornication/premarital sex, and so on. Because sex is supposed to be a complete gift of self to your spouse within a loving and lasting marriage. It is not meant to be a self-gratifying act.
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Vico
Guest
He did not say exactly that, but that they may abstain, by mutual consent.
1 Corinthians 7
4 A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife.
5 Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control.
6 This I say by way of concession,* however, not as a command.
- [7:6] By way of concession: this refers most likely to the concession mentioned in 1 Cor 7:5a: temporary interruption of relations for a legitimate purpose.
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EasterJoy
Guest
If you give it the priority it deserves then you won’t do it. You don’t do anyone any good by doing it. It is entirely self-centered.
By the way, you’ve never answered why you think there is some difference between watching porn and convincing a married couple to let them allow you to watch them have sex while you masturbate, or why there wouldn’t be anything wrong with that arrangement.
I think you have your answer, and I think you know it.
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fromckcc
Guest
I’m not addicted to masturbation. I haven’t indulged in it since July.
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EasterJoy
Guest
OK…it isn’t an addiction. It is a self-indulgence, and not an innocent one.
The short answer to your question, after all, is that masturbation* is *a sin. Human nature and human sexuality have not changed recently. The willingness of individuals to re-write moral law to suit themselves isn’t some new revelation that no one ever thought of. These ideas you are rationalizing have been rationalized over and over again since the moral life began. The answer hasn’t changed, nor has the need to accept it.
Questioning can be very profitable, but arguing will get you nowhere. We have no authority over you, but are only trying to help you understand what the one true authority has taught us. If you don’t want to be ruled by that authority but by your own moral lights, there is not much we can do to help you.
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kptrs
Guest
Um…sorry, I had to chuckle at this. It’s so outrageously ridiculous it’s a little bit funny.
OP, you are really grasping at straws to make your argument here. It’s really not complicated. Masturbation is a misuse of God’s gift of sex. It’s using sex for a purpose other than what it’s intended for. That’s why it’s a sin. If that answer doesn’t satisfy you, then you’re just trying to justify doing it.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You are right I am not fond of the youcat version and I believe it to be at odds with the other versions. I would never teach my kids the youcat version nor would I want it taught to the in religious Ed as it would contradict the message I will give. However I can see that some teens and people in general need to be handleded differently. My problem, and it is actually on topic, is the phrase “does not demonize” masturbation. If it is not demonized then what is it exactly?
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EasterJoy
Guest
The porn industry, meanwhile, will claim there is “nothing wrong” with porn. They do that by removing sex as far from marriage as possible. They allow the voyeur to gawk at things not his (or hers) to see while allowing him (or her) to feel unseen and unobtrusive, which allows him (or her) to believe that “no one is harmed.” When you say, “well, if there is nothing wrong with that, then there is nothing wrong with watching married people have sex in its appropriate context,” people all laugh. The rationalizations are all just that ridiculous, and more so!
The more sex is considered in its proper context, the harder it is to defend the unchaste uses of the sexual faculty.
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fromckcc
Guest
The two purposes of sex are for bonding and procreation. The whole concept of natural family planning pertains that when the semen is ejaculated, it does not lead to a pregnancy because there will be no ova in the ovaries. Thus the aspect of procreation cannot be fulfilled. The couple can bond though even if there will be no resulting pregnancy. From this we can arrive at the conclusion that sex can be purely for bonding and not procreation. Why then can masturbation not be viewed an self bonding?
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josh987654321
Guest
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