Masturbation is not A Sin

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Ok. So how do you reconcile these two things. The youth of today reading the youcat no nothing of the shaming you are speaking of. So how can one say that the church does not demonize something that is intrinsically evil? If the aim of youcat is to not be confusing because teens can not understand the real catechism then isn’t that about the most opposite result you get from the language used?
I am surprised of your attempt to explain and defend this ambiguity. You are pretty much my hero of plain simple language addressing the truth with no frills. Many of your posts read better than the CCC. 😉

(Addressed to 1ke). Something is wrong with the quote function…
 
The OP may be a teen, but after the OP expressed some rather detailed opinions about what constituted “acceptable” porn the conversation naturally confronted the detail in the questions he posed and the examples he gave in defense of his conclusions.

Yes, I would agree that the Church understands the power of sexual temptation and the subtle ways the evil one attacks chastity. The Church admonishes the sinner but with encouragement to repent and amend and with mercy towards those who fall, rather than with shaming or hysteria.
Yes but hopefully we can do so without voyeuristic references!
 
Ok. So how do you reconcile these two things. The youth of today reading the youcat no nothing of the shaming you are speaking of. So how can one say that the church does not demonize something that is intrinsically evil? If the aim of youcat is to not be confusing because teens can not understand the real catechism then isn’t that about the most opposite result you get from the language used?
Do they?

Admittedly, I’m in my late 20s, so it’s been a little while since I would have been in a youth group, but not that long. I can tell you that my (conservative, traditional Catholic) mother’s reaction to my discovering my body* and go through puberty were on the one hand physical violence and on the other shame and disgust–think having to wear heavy, loose boys’ clothing to disguise the fact that I was a normal, developing teenage girl. I have a sister almost a decade younger than I; I know for a fact that she was exposed to that line of thinking, too, and I doubt we were the only ones who were. Our culture is simultaneously far too open and far too Puritanical about sex: it’s everywhere, but everywhere that it is it’s seen as “bad” or “naughty” and therefore more fun, when, of course, the opposite is true. Thank goodness for the Church’s balanced view of the subject! However, having a teen be told “yep, this is what that is, yes, that’s wrong, here’s why, if you do it, go to Confession without fear and get it sorted out” is what needs to happen**, not just “it’s all grave matter, you’re in sin” and not “oh, everyone does it, no big deal” on the other.

Now, I do agree that the phrasing used in the youcat is silly at best. The truth with charity is what’s called for in this area–not shaming or ambiguity.

*In an eminently innocent fashion, I might add–I’d seen a mom breastfeeding her baby, so I pretended, at the age of 6 or so, to breastfeed a doll in the course of playing with the doll. My mother saw this, walked over very quickly, slapped me hard, and then when I sobbed out confusedly “but what did I do?”, refused to explain what I had done wrong beyond implying that even touching that area of my body was one of the worst things I could ever do.

**Which is one of the many reasons that once my kids hit the age of reason and with a frequency that will no doubt cause the teens’ eyes to roll thereafter, their dad and I will reiterate that they can ask us at any time to take them to Confession and we’ll take them to the next scheduled Confession time, no questions asked or comments made, period.
 
Yes but hopefully we can do so without voyeuristic references!
How are the OPs descriptions of porn not voyeuristic? How is porn* ever *not voyeuristic? That was my point. A person trying to rationalize that pornography can ever be morally admissible needs to confront that obvious truth. If they don’t, they’ll sell it to themselves as some kind of innocent “no-harm-done” art form or some garbage like that. Porn is gawking at something that is rightfully for someone else’s eyes only, something that ought to be safeguarded by privacy. No use sugarcoating that.
 
I’ve read the YouCat and I find it extremely confusing because it doesn’t whether or not masturbation is right or wrong.
 
I’ve read the YouCat and I find it extremely confusing because it doesn’t whether or not masturbation is right or wrong.
Then go to the full Catechism. It is very clear. Also, the YOUCAT states right up front it is an offense against love (chastity).

Whenever the Catechism or YOUCAT (or any Church document really) use phrase “offense against…” that means “sin”.
 
I’ve read the YouCat and I find it extremely confusing because it doesn’t whether or not masturbation is right or wrong.
YouCat
56 Does man have a special place in creation?

Yes. Man is the summit of creation, because God created him in his image (Gen 1:27). [343-344, 353]

The creation of man is clearly distinguished from the creation of other living things. Man is a person, which means that through his understanding and will he can decide for or against love.

67 What is sin?
At the core of sin is a rejection of God and the refusal to accept his love. This is manifested in a disregard for his commandments. [385-390]

Sin is more than incorrect behavior; it is not just a psychological weakness. In the deepest sense every rejection or destruction of something good is the rejection of good in itself, the rejection of God. In its most profound and terrible dimension, sin is separation from God and, thus, separation from the source of life. That is why death is another consequence of sin. Only through Jesus do we understand the abysmal dimension of sin: Jesus suffered God’s rejection in his own flesh. He took upon himself the deadly power of sin so that it would not strike us. The term that we use for this is redemption. 224-237, 315-318, 348-468

409 Is masturbation an offense against love?

Masturbation is an offense against love, because it makes the excitement of sexual pleasure an end in itself and uncouples it from the holistic unfolding of love between a man and a woman. That is why “sex with yourself” is a contradiction in terms. [2352]

The Church does not demonize masturbation, but she warns against trivializing it. In fact many young people and adults are in danger of becoming isolated in their consumption of lewd pictures, films, and Internet services instead of finding love in a personal relationship. Loneliness can lead to a blind alley in which masturbation becomes an addiction. Living by the motto “For sex I do not need anyone; I will have it myself, however and whenever I need it” makes nobody happy.​
 
Are there any other offenses against love?
Of course. Adultery, premarital sex, homosexuality and the like.

And as a general rule it would be a sin for anyone with sufficent reason to comprehend.that it is sinful and enough freedom to freely consent.to do it anyway. For someone truly addicted to the point where their willpower.is compromised that possibly, depending on the extent of the addiction, means it is no.sin or a lesser (venial) instead of a greater (mortal) sin
 
Are there any other offenses against love?
Every single sin is an offense against love. That is why it is a kind of throw away ambiguous statement. Murder us an offense against love… So is stealing.

But how about this. In 2000 years the church has seen and heard it all . The church headed by Christ knows infinitely more than you and I about this subject. And She teaches that it is wrong. So don’t you think obedience is what Jesus wants from you and not justifications?
 
Are there any other offenses against love?
Is it a sin for teens?
All mortal sins are. It is always a sin, even for teens. It can be a mortal sin for anyone.

Catchism: 1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man …
 
Because it is a very self-absorbed thing to do. I mean we’re supposed to be growing in holiness here on earth. Not just jacking off to our favorite thoughts.

And it gets us in bad habits. I mean what are you thinking about when you’re at it? I’m sure it’s not spiritually pure stuff. You’re making some girl or guy your object. Something they weren’t supposed to be.

Because there’s no love in what you’re doing. There’s only lust fulfillment. I mean it’s like eating just because something tastes good. Without worrying about not having self-control. So you’re taking something that was meant to strengthen love. And using it in a way that will only weaken it. I mean there’s no other way forward than that.

It seems pretty simple right now. But you haven’t started getting fat yet. You haven’t started getting into the habit of eating all the cake in the room.

I talk with guys who are addicted to masturbating. They’re addicted to porn. They’re addicted to impure thoughts. Everything reminds them about alone time. And that craving moves everything else out of the way. All the other things that should be more important sort of fall aside.

Because sex is a kind of drug. Being restricted to only having it with a spouse helps to limit the dose. Helps to keep the supply in check. But masturbation? What puts that upper limit on that for you?

I mean you can go an hour or more at a time already. I don’t know how old you are. But add 10 years and you can be like guys I know who can go 8 times that long. Then you can also sort of also join company with those who can’t have normal relations at all. Because they’ve worn out all the easy ways at getting that high. All that stuff’s now dull and predictable. Because the brain adapts. It craves novelty.

So if yzou don’t keep sex novel it’ll become mundane. And once it does you’re on a downward spiral. As you push the limits of normal. In all directions.

Peace fromckcc. Thanks for asking. Thanks for not just assuming you were totally right. Thanks for leaving that room for doubt.

-Trident
Thank you Trident. This was a wonderful post! And I do pray for you daily. You are strong and Holy Catholic.
 
THIS.

Sorry OP, but it’s a sin. Period. It’s considered a mortal sin. Just like going to bed pre-marital.

St. Francis of Assisi would roll in the snow to fight off such feelings of human weakness. Likewise, you need to avoid such deceitful thoughts and stop trying to justify self love as not a sin, because it is.
Thank you Trident. This was a wonderful post! And I do pray for you daily. You are strong and Holy Catholic.
Thanks guys. Thanks for the support. And for the prayers. I think they’re working. There’s a lot of contrast between where I was when I first came here. And now.

Peace guys. You’re both in my prayers too.

Your friend,

Trident
 
Every single sin is an offense against love. That is why it is a kind of throw away ambiguous statement. Murder us an offense against love… So is stealing.
But here the Catechism is referring to marital love, the sixth commandment. The fifth commandment discussed sins against life. The eighth, sins against truth. The seventh, respect for persons and their goods. Etc.
 
But here the Catechism is referring to marital love, the sixth commandment. The fifth commandment discussed sins against life. The eighth, sins against truth. The seventh, respect for persons and their goods. Etc.
So it’s a sin against eros love? The catechism is that specific?
 
Are there any other offenses against love?
The sixth and ninth commandments encompass the sins against marital love and against chastity.

Examples of sins against chastity are sex outside of marriage/fornication, lust, pornography, masturbation, homosexual acts, incest, prostitution, rape.

Sins against the dignity of marriage include contraception, artificial reproduction (IVF and “test tube baby” technologies), adultery, divorce, and cohabitation without marriage (also called “free unions” or “trial marriages”).

Sins against the ninth commandment involve sins against purity-- filling your mind with impure thoughts and images (movies, video games, books, magazines with inappropriate content), live eroticism (i.e. Going to strip clubs, shows with nudity or vulgar themes and language), wearing immodest clothing, etc.
 
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