Masturbation: natural law and a sudden lack of faith in the Church

[bleh_confused]

hello again…

a few months ago i posted a thread entitled ‘a new spin on a common question’ which dealt with masturbation, and many of you gave me wonderful answers. anyways since then i’ve been attempting to break the habit, but as can be expected i’ve fallen several times.

so, through reflection, i have come to realize that in my moments when i fall i have a sudden loss of faith; in short, nothing i have heard in the past is enough to convince me that it is a sin.

the two areas which i really doubt are as follows: how masturbation is contratry to natural law and how involved the Holy Spirit was in the Church when the Magisterium has proclaimed it to be a sin.

so please, help me with this…tell me the reasoning behind this teaching or your own personal reasons for rejecting it.

on a side note: how does mortal sin, such as masturbation, effect God’s plan for a person? does every mortal act somehow make our future more and more mutated from what God originally intended, or through a true confession and convergeance of heart will it be as though it never happened?

thank you!!

 

[curlycool89]

hello again…

a few months ago i posted a thread entitled ‘a new spin on a common question’ which dealt with masturbation, and many of you gave me wonderful answers. anyways since then i’ve been attempting to break the habit, but as can be expected i’ve fallen several times.

so, through reflection, i have come to realize that in my moments when i fall i have a sudden loss of faith; in short, nothing i have heard in the past is enough to convince me that it is a sin.

the two areas which i really doubt are as follows: how masturbation is contratry to natural law and how involved the Holy Spirit was in the Church when the Magisterium has proclaimed it to be a sin.

so please, help me with this…tell me the reasoning behind this teaching or your own personal reasons for rejecting it.

on a side note: how does mortal sin, such as masturbation, effect God’s plan for a person? does every mortal act somehow make our future more and more mutated from what God originally intended, or through a true confession and convergeance of heart will it be as though it never happened?

thank you!!

First things first you might want to meditate on what exactly is a mortal sin. It’s not as simple as “God’s punishing us”.

A mortal sin is deadly to your soul because when you commit it you are rejecting God. That is what sin is, a rejection of God and His ways. When you commit a mortal sin you reject God in such a way that you cut yourself off from God. You choose to cut yourself off. It is a conscience choice where you say “I don’t need you God; I can do without you”.

Sometimes, you just need to submit yourself to God’s will out of faith and obedience. Even if you are still doubtful of the morality of masturbation, maybe you can choose to “give it up” as your Lenten sacrifice and take the time to grow spiritually. Lent is always a good time for penance and humility; a time to ask God “what do you want me to do?” instead of “what do I want?”

 

[stbosco11]

Hey man, I don’t know what all resources you have come across in the past, but here is some stuff that helped me.

amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/R10NHQGLFG60BM/ref=cm_sylt_byauthor_title_full_5

Amazon list by a Catholic user that is pretty in your face about pornography, filled with links to recommended books. The list also contains this youtube link that I recommend youtube.com/watch?v=d2yNYBn_KOM

Also, here is a candid look at pornography from the Veritas Forum veritas.org/Media.aspx#/v/203

And a youtube series from CatholicMission youtube.com/user/CatholicMission#p/u/12/vD_cpfxY9PI

I had the exact same problem with pornography/masturbation that you had, I would tell myself either that “the church must have had a Spanish Inquisition type lack of judgment here” or I’d go even further and say, “there is no God”. It’s amazing how we try and fool ourselves to justify sin. I KNOW where you are man, I’ve been in the exact same spot, but WITH GOD’S HELP I’ve been able to make excellent, but admittedly not yet total progress, on this problem.

 

[Elizabeth502]

i have come to realize that in my moments when i fall i have a sudden loss of faith; in short, nothing i have heard in the past is enough to convince me that it is a sin.

Dear OP:
The problem is that mortal sin temporarily blinds us to our depravity and our failings. (That’s why I highlighted the above portion of your words.) It desensitizes us to our sin and leaves us more in the grip of the Devil, who is the King of rationalization. ('Can’t be wrong because it feels good, it’s “natural,” “it’s difficult to resist such a bodily temptation,” “It’s not hurting anyone,” etc.) And the more one becomes habituated to any sin, it becomes increasingly easy to rationalize it.

tell me the reasoning behind this teaching

Masturbation isolates us from the natural order of sexuality, which is paired, not solo. It also unnaturaly focuses us our ourselves, turning the sexual act inward rather than outward. In doing this, it perverts sex and distorts its purpose. It also makes two idols (which is against the First Commandment, of course): we idolize ourselves by it, and we idolize pleasure for its own sake – as opposed to pleasure as a gift & as a product of holy union with the human object of our love. In pleasuring ourselves, we seize this gift out of impatience and false entitlement, therefore devaluing the gift itself.

How does mortal sin, such as masturbation, effect God’s plan for a person? does every mortal act somehow make our future more and more mutated from what God originally intended, or through a true confession and convergeance of heart will it be as though it never happened?

Sin wounds us, leaving scars. Our relationship with God and His Son are healed through the sacrament of penance, but we may still battle with our previous inclinations, if we have become habituated. We also, though made whole by the sacrament, may have feelings of remorse, shame, regret – as we can with any sin of any category, committed recently or long ago.

I wish you would read Jason Evert: that is the advice I leave with you. Both he and his wife Cristalina (sp?) have “pasts.” He and she have mentioned this on EWTN several times. He was addicted to pornography, she to premarital sex and lying about it to her parents. Both of them still carry the after-effects of that, to some extent, and are up-front about that, for which I respect them. They don’t try to spin themselves as perfect or as without temptation or a fallen nature. Therefore, their attempt to live purely since their conversion is all the more credible. Jason’s books are advertised here on the CAF home web page. I think you would relate well to them. He is not a condemning person; he is an honest person who tells it like it is, unflinchingly. You might start with Jason’s book, “Theology of His Body/Theology of Her Body.”

We are all wounded. Some people are less aware of it and less honest about it. I know for a fact – I have experienced this – that there have been ingrained tendencies in my past that now make it more difficult for me to extricate myself from these bad habits, some of which are grievously sinful but which I used to be unaware I was engaging in so often out of force of habit. They key to losing any habit is first, to gain awareness of your actions and motivations, and second, to pray about it. The more tempting the habit, and/or the more ingrained the habit (which is another reason to conquer it a.s.a.p), the more personal prayer we need to battle it. Thirdly, frequent confession.

I don’t want to go into more specifics at this time about remedies, because those have been discussed often on other threads to which I have already contributed, and I’m sure you can find such discussions here. I’m merely trying to answer the specific questions you asked on this thread.

 

[Ferds_Guiang]

Hi! A person falls into sin due to moral weakness. And I believe we all have different degrees of weakness. Therefore someone may easily be addicted to masturbation while some will not. There are a lot of practical ways to combat addiction to masturbation among them are deep prayer life, regular confession and reception of Holy Eucharist, avoiding occasions that may cause you to fall and keeping yourself busy. But remember that God’s grace is truly required whenever we deal with temptations. And the important thing is not to give up the fight. The enemy introduces thoughts of despair and discouragement so don’t ever listen to those feelings. The only way we could win is to never give up and have faith in God’s grace.

 

[OraLabora]

on a side note: how does mortal sin, such as masturbation…

thank you!!

Masturbation is not a “mortal sin” it is “grave matter”.

It becomes a mortal sin with full knowledge and full consent. If either of those two additional elements are compromised then it is not mortal sin.

Also please keep in mind when dealing with sin we need to also consider the mercy that is always available to us through the sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[bleh_confused]

Masturbation isolates us from the natural order of sexuality, which is paired, not solo. It also unnaturaly focuses us our ourselves, turning the sexual act inward rather than outward. In doing this, it perverts sex and distorts its purpose. It also makes two idols (which is against the First Commandment, of course): we idolize ourselves by it, and we idolize pleasure for its own sake – as opposed to pleasure as a gift & as a product of holy union with the human object of our love. In pleasuring ourselves, we seize this gift out of impatience and false entitlement, therefore devaluing the gift itself.

firstly let me say thank you, thats the best description of the natural law argument against masturbation i’ve heard…honestly your entire answer was very helpful

and to everyone who has posted on this thread i thank you for taking the time to answer my question, may God Bless you all!!!

however, the second part of my question remains rather untouched from what i can see…so could someone please tell me how God is so closely linked to the Church that they won’t err on matters of morals

and to stbosco11, thank you for the personal testimony…how have you conquered this?

 

[stbosco11]

I can recommend something if your problem is linked to internet pornography…firewall, block it, set your internet security to block sites that you frequent then make it so you can’t change it back. If you are eating a chocolate cake and think, man I gotta stop eating this stuff, putting it in the fridge is only going to make you eat it again later, throw it out. Again though, this is only pragmatic stuff, the spiritual aspect of this issue is more important, and I think others have given good answers.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Here we go again…another single person Magisterium trying to rationalize and justify their sinful actions…Let me say it once again as charitably as possible, regardless no matter how you try to spin it, justify it, or rationalize it…Masturbation WILL ALWAYS be a disordered action that is a grave matter…and it doesn’t matter if you understand why or not…doesn’t matter if you personally agree with that or not…it is what it is and I suggest instead of spending time trying to justify your actions, instead spend time praying for the grace to follow the teachings of the Church despite the fact you don’t understand or agree. Sorry if this sounds harsh, but after a 1000 threads on the same subject asking the same questions or making the same fallacious arguments, it gets old.

 

[christin]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but after a 1000 threads on the same subject asking the same questions or making the same fallacious arguments, it gets old.

As one who has been grievously wounded emotionally by a husband who is addicted to masturbation, I must humbly disagree that a 1000 threads on the same subject, asking the same questions, gets old – not if the OP is sincerely seeking truth. Sometimes a person has to ask the question in his own way or needs to ask it yet another time, even though he’s asked it before. Just because he needs to ask it, doesn’t mean that someone, sick of hearing the question, has to read it. IMHO, no one can seek the truth too often.

I commend the OP for his honesty and for his desire to seek truth and from his reply, I’m under the impression that he is open to hearing that truth.

OP… I can’t begin to tell you how this act can poison your life. I strongly suggest that, along with prayer (including frequent Confession and Communion) and abstinence, you visit some recovery forums for sex addictions. Even if you don’t consider yourself to have an addiction, it might open your eyes to just how deadly this sin is. A full-blown junkie in recovery has much wisdom to offer the individual who’s “just smoking H or crushing OxyContin on the weekends.”

I pray that God grants you peace of heart in the knowledge of His truth as He has revealed it through the Church.

 

[Eschato]

Masturbation is not a “mortal sin” it is “grave matter”.

It becomes a mortal sin with full knowledge and full consent. If either of those two additional elements are compromised then it is not mortal sin.

Also please keep in mind when dealing with sin we need to also consider the mercy that is always available to us through the sacrament of reconciliation.

I’m not arguing with you, I would just like you (or anyone else) to elaborate on this. Under what circumstances would a person commit the act of masturbation and not have full knowledge or consent? I can think of two cases where one of the requirements for mortal sin would be lacking. One is if the act were to have happened while said person was asleep. The second is during exercise or other activity that may result in some form of stimulation (for instance, sometimes bike riders have this issue).
In the first case, you could definitely say that the person lacked consent and/or knowledge of the event in question. I think that one would be hard pressed to actually show that this constituted mortal sin.
The second case brings up a different question. The person has the ability to stop whatever she or he is doing that is causing the issue. While masturbation was by no means the intended outcome of said person’s actions the person probably realizes at some point what is happening and continues to exercise anyway.
I’m sure that someone in the Church has written on this.

 

[OraLabora]

I’m not arguing with you, I would just like you (or anyone else) to elaborate on this. Under what circumstances would a person commit the act of masturbation and not have full knowledge or consent? I can think of two cases where one of the requirements for mortal sin would be lacking. One is if the act were to have happened while said person was asleep. The second is during exercise or other activity that may result in some form of stimulation (for instance, sometimes bike riders have this issue).
In the first case, you could definitely say that the person lacked consent and/or knowledge of the event in question. I think that one would be hard pressed to actually show that this constituted mortal sin.
The second case brings up a different question. The person has the ability to stop whatever she or he is doing that is causing the issue. While masturbation was by no means the intended outcome of said person’s actions the person probably realizes at some point what is happening and continues to exercise anyway.
I’m sure that someone in the Church has written on this.

The only guidance I can give you is the CCC:

"2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.“138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.”

How you slice and dice that loophole in bold, is best discussed between yourself and your confessor,

 

[Eschato]

The only guidance I can give you is the CCC:

"2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.“138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.”

How you slice and dice that loophole in bold, is best discussed between yourself and your confessor,

So when the catechism fails you, your best bet is to just act as if it were mortal sin?

 

[camerong]

bleh_confused,
Do not wait to give up a sinful life until you cease having doubts. It will never occur. Pascal said that those wishing to be Christians should start acting like Christians, and they would be amazed at what happens. If you want to be a devout Catholic, just pretend you are and act that way, regardless of what silly thoughts happen to be going on in your mind. Resolve to go to confession after every time you fail, and then resolve to never fail again.

These arguments you are making are silly, and at some level you know it. You will look back on this thread and laugh and how desperately you clung to this habit. Or, you will never overcome this and it will be the way the devil separates you from Christ. That, unfortunately, is a very real possibility.

We don’t chose what we believe, we chose what we do.

 

[OraLabora]

So when the catechism fails you, your best bet is to just act as if it were mortal sin?

That’s something you should discuss with your confessor. None of us here are qualified to make that distinction for you.

 

[camerong]

I’m not arguing with you, I would just like you (or anyone else) to elaborate on this. Under what circumstances would a person commit the act of masturbation and not have full knowledge or consent? I can think of two cases where one of the requirements for mortal sin would be lacking. One is if the act were to have happened while said person was asleep. The second is during exercise or other activity that may result in some form of stimulation (for instance, sometimes bike riders have this issue).
In the first case, you could definitely say that the person lacked consent and/or knowledge of the event in question. I think that one would be hard pressed to actually show that this constituted mortal sin.
The second case brings up a different question. The person has the ability to stop whatever she or he is doing that is causing the issue. While masturbation was by no means the intended outcome of said person’s actions the person probably realizes at some point what is happening and continues to exercise anyway.
I’m sure that someone in the Church has written on this.

Full knowledge includes knowing that the particular act is against God’s will. Its no use saying that a Catholic who had no idea birth control was wrong (there are many such people, just come to my parish) committed a mortal sin by taking birth control. It is still a grave sin which harms their soul, but it is not a conscious choice to reject God (in other words, a mortal sin) until the person knows it is against God’s will.

 

[kage_ar]

however, the second part of my question remains rather untouched from what i can see…so could someone please tell me how God is so closely linked to the Church that they won’t err on matters of morals

Scripture.

Read the Gospels.

“Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven”

“The gates of hell will not prevail”

Christ gave authority to the Church, Jesus does not lie.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

however, the second part of my question remains rather untouched from what i can see…so could someone please tell me how God is so closely linked to the Church that they won’t err on matters of morals

I think I can help

Matthew 16:18

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

That’s what Jesus Himself said.

 

[Eschato]

Full knowledge includes knowing that the particular act is against God’s will. Its no use saying that a Catholic who had no idea birth control was wrong (there are many such people, just come to my parish) committed a mortal sin by taking birth control. It is still a grave sin which harms their soul, but it is not a conscious choice to reject God (in other words, a mortal sin) until the person knows it is against God’s will.

I thought that was kind of what my argument was. My question to OraLabora was "How could that apply in the case of masturbation. I suppose that one could make the argument that they didn’t know it was wrong… but only once. As soon as it has been explained that option would be ruled out.
It seemed to me that it was implied by Ora that there were other factors that could contribute to this not being a MORTAL sin.

 

[OraLabora]

I thought that was kind of what my argument was. My question to OraLabora was "How could that apply in the case of masturbation. I suppose that one could make the argument that they didn’t know it was wrong… but only once. As soon as it has been explained that option would be ruled out.
It seemed to me that it was implied by Ora that there were other factors that could contribute to this not being a MORTAL sin.

Don’t forget the full consent part. There’s not just full knowledge, but full consent. A concrete example, an alcoholic or a drug addict is not necessarily fully consenting to the act of drinking or getting the next hit. Similarly a sexual addict might have the same problem with masturbation.

Go back to the CCC quote: "To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability."

Those are the CCC’s words, not mine (and I expect intended more as pastoral guidance for confessors than for laypeople). Immaturity,force of acquired habit, anxiety or other psychological or social factors. A pretty wide array of exceptions if you ask me.

Here’s another example. A Protestant or non-believer was always taught it was OK, so has acquired a habit of masturbation. Then he converts to Catholicism. He is taught it is wrong. So he has full knowledge, but breaking a life-long habit is not so easy. Consent is impaired by this. He may really wish to break the habit, and may try hard to do so, but hasn’t achieved it yet.

So yes there are numerous factors that decrease the level of culpability from mortal to venial. I suspect that there are individuals, and confessors, who will take the wide approach and say that simply our over-sexualized modern society that “social factors” (as the CCC states) mean that in practical terms almost all instances of masturbation are venial. At the other extreme some will take the narrow approach that there’s no real excuse except immaturity (a teen exploring his or her sexuality for the first time and stumbling upon this; after all it is a perfectly natural act, even if it isn’t a licit act in Natural Law which, BTW has nothing to do with nature) or being a sexual deviant.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. At the end of the day the penitent needs to take this up with his or her confessor. The confessor is duly authorized by the Church to teach in this area. If the confessor takes the more liberal approach and says " you don’t need to confess this every week, it’s only venial because of the social context", the penitent can will follow that approach because he trusts his priest. But if the priest turned out to be wrong, the penitent can only rely on Christ’s mercy. It is the priest who will have more to atone for, by misleading, than the person who follows the erroneous advice of a trusted member of the clergy.

You know, I hang around with a bunch of men in dresses

No not transvestites, but monks in their habits

Even they will admit that overcoming this sin, when they enter the monastery at a young age, is a difficult battle against raging hormones. It has been likened to any discipline be it learning the piano or competing in a sport, it requires patience and exercise to achieve. If it is difficult for a cloistered community of men who support each other to acquire the habit of continence (I have been told it can take years to achieve), how much more difficult it must be for us in the real world, bombarded as we are with sexualized images daily, even in our must mundane tasks and recreations.

Masturbation is does not guarantee that one is a sexual deviant or porn addict, it does not make one a “bad person”, it just confirms our status as sinners. People who try to stop masturbating are in fact battling against their nature, and it shouldn’t be surprising that nature often gets the best of us. We are of course, as Christians, called to rise above our natures, but it isn’t easy and some never win that battle.