Masturbation: NOT A SIN

[PennitentMan]

Papal infallibility was not invented in 1870. The authority of the Church is testifies to in the Scriptures. But in the end, It is no sense arguing with you. For some reason you dewcided to hate the Church, probably because you cant do wahtever you want no matter how selfish (Poor you!)

Your sarcasm is a kinda entertaining. No, not poor me. I finally see how logic and reason is distorted in order to suit the teachings.

 

[PennitentMan]

In order to argue with some one and make it worth your time, they opposite party much acknowledge some common ground. In which case PennitentMan has little. Better we keep our arguments with those in the church (or at least claim they are) as they **must ** acknowledge the truths of the church. To PennitentMan that means nothing. To a practicing Catholic they have little ground to argue on because part of being a practicing Catholic is acknowledging the truths of the Church. Not fully understanding a teaching is fine, denying it is wrong.

No problem, I’ll bow out, but you’ll still have to try and make your case that masturbation violates the 6th commandment.
It’s reaching.
It took at least 2 popes, countless sermons, some encyclicals, many books and the full time career of at least one prominent person to keep it unchallenged to this point…I wonder how long it’s going to last…

 

[CWBetts]

Your sarcasm is a kinda entertaining. No, not poor me. I finally see how logic and reason is distorted in order to suit the teachings.

Actually, the Catholic Church eanables us to use reason, and through reason draw connections that go beyond the obvious.

 

[thevickinator16]

In order to argue with some one and make it worth your time, they opposite party much acknowledge some common ground. In which case PennitentMan has little. Better we keep our arguments with those in the church (or at least claim they are) as they **must ** acknowledge the truths of the church. To PennitentMan that means nothing. To a practicing Catholic they have little ground to argue on because part of being a practicing Catholic is acknowledging the truths of the Church. Not fully understanding a teaching is fine, denying it is wrong.

We can not and shall not judge according to Jesus as He is the Just Judge. We pray for enlightenment for ourselves. Our graces in this life and the next depend on the Mercy we show others. We pray for others that they may know the truth. We do not argue or yell, Jesus never had too. You pray and pray and believe.

Jesus told St. Faustina this: “I am Love and Mercy itself. My heart overflows with great Mercy for souls, and especially for poor sinners…it is for them that the Blood and Water flowed from my Heart as from a fount with Mercy. Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins may be scarlet. My Mercy is greater than your sins, and those of the entire world.I let My sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of Mercy for you. Come then with trust to draw graces from this fountain.”

When you are not sure of the “real” truth, spend time in the Fount of Mercy. Don’t make Him cry. When you go to mass today, pray on this subject to know HIS truth. I can not make you believe, so I will let God do this. By being aware of the “probability” of masterbation being sinful in your own eyes, your soul is in danger. Go to Jesus and ask for His Mercy!

Swimming in Mercy, I want to drown!

 

[PennitentMan]

Actually, the Catholic Church eanables us to use reason, and through reason draw connections that go beyond the obvious.

The “using reason in the church” is just a party line.

The same church that say s this will force you to forego your conclusions if they are in any shape, size or form different from the magisterium’s conclusions. They teach that these conclusions that differ are usually from an ill aligned conscience. And since they penned their conclusions down in the Catechism, their reason and logic overrides yours.
So, in essence, they say: “Don’t think, we did it for you, and our way is better, so just read about it and believe.”

And by these statements and teachings they totally undermine the very essence of reason and logic.

 

[tobinatorstark]

So, reason and logic goes out the window and you believe something that had to be distorted and rephrased in so many ways to be able to fit into their teachings. That’s your prerogative, of course.

Fact remains that masturbation is not a violation of the 6th commandment.

It is too a sin. You just can’t prove that it isn’t a sin. We already refuted you on you dictionary term. Give an Biblical proof documentation and citation that it isn’t a sin

 

[stringbeanduck]

We can not and shall not judge according to Jesus as He is the Just Judge. We pray for enlightenment for ourselves. Our graces in this life and the next depend on the Mercy we show others. We pray for others that they may know the truth. We do not argue or yell, Jesus never had too. You pray and pray and believe.

Jesus told St. Faustina this: “I am Love and Mercy itself. My heart overflows with great Mercy for souls, and especially for poor sinners…it is for them that the Blood and Water flowed from my Heart as from a fount with Mercy. Let no soul fear to draw near to Me, even though its sins may be scarlet. My Mercy is greater than your sins, and those of the entire world.I let My sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of Mercy for you. Come then with trust to draw graces from this fountain.”

When you are not sure of the “real” truth, spend time in the Fount of Mercy. Don’t make Him cry. When you go to mass today, pray on this subject to know HIS truth. I can not make you believe, so I will let God do this. By being aware of the “probability” of masterbation being sinful in your own eyes, your soul is in danger. Go to Jesus and ask for His Mercy!

Swimming in Mercy, I want to drown!

Are you talking to me or some one else?

Who said anything about judging? Why do I need to ask for Jesus’ mercy at the moment? I agree with the church’s teachings. I may not understand everything the church teaches but I do except it. And I certainly do believe Masturbation is a mortal sin.

Also what’s wrong with argueing? We need to argue. If you’ve ever been in disagreement where you used propaganda to help your position, you have been in arguement. Fighting is wrong. It is where one or both parties are uncharitable towards each other.

 

[ApocalypseNow]

To PennitentMan,
I am curious to know if you think that being in a polygamous marriage is wrong or sinful? The reason I ask is that there is not one verse in the Bible that clearly states that it is wrong. Yet it is taken for granted by the vast majority of the world that it is sinful and I would presume to think that you are of that opinion. From whence does this belief come from then? Catholic Sacred Tradition, the same Tradition which was handed down from the Apostles, the same Tradition which absolutely forbids masturbation, the same Tradition that helped the Bishops of the world in 400 A.D. to decide which books belonged in the Bible and which ones didn’t. If you are going to reject one certain moral teaching of the Church, then you might as well throw out the whole thing because it all hangs together. You say that the sixth commandment, “Thou shalt not commit adultery” is not being violated by an act of masturbation(and that is correct), but are you not aware of all of the other laws given in the O.T. that condemn other sexual sins outside of adultery? Going by this sort of logic, one could easily justify his or herself in committing all of these other sins(premarital sex,prostitution,bestiality,homosexual sex,ect.) just because these do not fall under the category of adultery. And let us not forget the fact that pedophilia, which is something that not only the Church condemns but also the world, is a sin that is not even mentioned in the Bible. Have you ever heard of the sin of Onanism? This is a word that is synonomous with masturbation, and is derived from a person named Onan in the book of Genesis 38:8-10. He was the grandson of Jacob who married the wife of his deceased brother Her. While he was engaged in the sexual act with his wife, he spilled his semen on the ground because he did not want to have children. God was furious with him for doing this and killed him. In verse 10, it clearly states that this act of masturbation was wicked and detestable. Here is one verse that clearly condemns in one fell swoop both contraception and masturbation.
I suspect that deep down inside you know that it is wrong, otherwise you would not have bothered to post a thread on this forum to discuss it. I had engaged in this sin in the past back when I was a Protestant and was bothered about it in my conscience from time to time. This is Natural Law, the Law of God that is written in our hearts, that was forcing my conscience to come to terms with it. Even the Heathen Greek Philosophers who lived before Christ knew that this act of self gratification was to be reprobated and condemned. Come on man, what more evidence do you need? You are not going to be happy and content until you confess this sin and come back into the Church. I urge you to do it now because your eternal soul is at stake. Peace.

 

[thevickinator16]

Are you talking to me or some one else?

Who said anything about judging? Why do I need to ask for Jesus’ mercy at the moment? I agree with the church’s teachings. I may not understand everything the church teaches but I do except it. And I certainly do believe Masturbation is a mortal sin.

Also what’s wrong with argueing? We need to argue. If you’ve ever been in disagreement where you used propaganda to help your position, you have been in arguement. Fighting is wrong. It is where one or both parties are uncharitable towards each other.

My apologies, I hit the wrong post quote! I am in agreement as far as arguing one’s faith. Just not with anger! Seems that sometimes anger gets in the way. I DO believe that masturbation is a sin and is a violation of the 6th commandment also.

Forgive?

Swimming and doing the back stroke, Mercy is fine!

 

[distracted]

Uh If your an adult and even Catholics grow up and get over their guilt…sex is a gift from God …have fun dont’t hurt anyone…even yourself…and move onto real problems…go help a poor person or for giggles volunteer your time to help the sick.and suffering .I dunno but if your an adult and you still worry about what God is gonna say about your sex life in the hereafter…all I can say is…See a shrink !

The only sin is to not show love when you have the opputunity …end of story ! ]

the saints (and Sorry, i trust them more than i do some unknown on the internet)… say that ***more people go to Hell for the sins of sexual impurity than any other sin… ***

Please be careful and don’t lead people onto the pathway of sin and death (Hell)…

 

[Holly3278]

I personally do not believe masturbation to be a sin. The only time it could possibly be a sin is if the person who is masturbating lusts after another married individual.

 

[PennitentMan]

To PennitentMan,
I am curious to know if you think that being in a polygamous marriage is wrong or sinful? The reason I ask is that there is not one verse in the Bible that clearly states that it is wrong. Yet it is taken for granted by the vast majority of the world that it is sinful and I would presume to think that you are of that opinion. From whence does this belief come from then? Catholic Sacred Tradition,

So, morals are not taken from Christianity, but morals exist outside of the church to know what is right and wrong. From whence do we get these beliefs? The same place an atheist would know that killing is wrong.

the same Tradition which was handed down from the Apostles, the same Tradition which absolutely forbids masturbation, the same Tradition that helped the Bishops of the world in 400 A.D. to decide which books belonged in the Bible and which ones didn’t.

Umm, I don’t think it was tradition that decided that was it? Most would claim that the holy spirit lead the bishops to ascertain which writings were inspired or not. In 350 CE, Bishop Cyril compiled a list (close to today’s canon, but excluding revelations), based loosely on Eusebius’ list, but they differed slightly.
The synod of Ladocea was formed to decide the contents of the bible, they used the same list as Cyril. Then Athanasius, the Bishop of Alexandriain 367 published another list that looks exactly like the canon does today, but it was still undecided, people like Gregory of Nazianzus still protested some books being included.
Only in 692 was the canon list finally nailed down.

Anyway, I might be mistaken, but these events are not really part of sacred tradition, but more like a 300 year long debate. I’m not an authority on this though.

If you are going to reject one certain moral teaching of the Church, then you might as well throw out the whole thing because it all hangs together.

Correct, to do otherwise would be hypocritical. If you go to mass and receive communion, uphold and teach and live according to some rules but not others, you can’t call yourself catholic. True.

You say that the sixth commandment, “Thou shalt not commit adultery” is not being violated by an act of masturbation(and that is correct),

Thanks for that.

but are you not aware of all of the other laws given in the O.T. that condemn other sexual sins outside of adultery? Going by this sort of logic, one could easily justify his or herself in committing all of these other sins(premarital sex,prostitution,bestiality,homosexual sex,ect.) just because these do not fall under the category of adultery. And let us not forget the fact that pedophilia, which is something that not only the Church condemns but also the world, is a sin that is not even mentioned in the Bible.

And if you go about all the laows in the Old Testament, being so specific, going into details on who exactly you are not allowed to sleep with, have you asked yourself why masturbation is not mentioned? Maybe it wasn’t that important? I mean while you are busy documenting all the sexual sins that there could conceivably be, including sex with cousins, and animals, etc, why not add a line for masturbation?

Have you ever heard of the sin of Onanism? This is a word that is synonomous with masturbation, and is derived from a person named Onan in the book of Genesis 38:8-10. He was the grandson of Jacob who married the wife of his deceased brother Her. While he was engaged in the sexual act with his wife, he spilled his semen on the ground because he did not want to have children. God was furious with him for doing this and killed him. In verse 10, it clearly states that this act of masturbation was wicked and detestable. Here is one verse that clearly condemns in one fell swoop both contraception and masturbation.

Oh I beg to differ. I know about Onan. Onan was punished for disobeying God. We all know about God’s reaction to people disobeying him. It could have been the anyone disobeying god under any circumstance. They all died…like the guy who steadied the ark from falling died too. It’s disobeying god that brings death.
Read it again and see if you disagree with me. And while we are on Onan’s chapter, don’t you find it a bit immoral; that god would command someone to have extra-marital sex?
It’s not about sex, because if it was then a) God wouldn’t have commanded Onan to do what he did, and b) if Onan did it have extra-marital sex, but got punished for something akin to masturbation, wouldn’t that be hypocritical?
AND, Onan didn’t touch himself. He had extra-marital sex and pulled out. That’s not masturbation by Any stretch of the imagination, and would fit more into your debate against contraception than masturbation, just fyi.

I suspect that deep down inside you know that it is wrong, otherwise you would not have bothered to post a thread on this forum to discuss it.

Umm, I didn’t post the thread. I just merrily hopped on board when I saw it, since I was in the Moral Theology section on “related business” anyway.

I had engaged in this sin in the past back when I was a Protestant and was bothered about it in my conscience from time to time. This is Natural Law, the Law of God that is written in our hearts, that was forcing my conscience to come to terms with it. Even the Heathen Greek Philosophers who lived before Christ knew that this act of self gratification was to be reprobated and condemned. Come on man, what more evidence do you need?

Since I just refuted all your “evidence”, a lot more.

You are not going to be happy and content until you confess this sin and come back into the Church. I urge you to do it now because your eternal soul is at stake. Peace.

If there is a god and he will judge me, then what condemns my soul will be matters far worse than masturbation…although for some folks here there aren’t a lot of things that are worse, that’s for sure.

 

[CWBetts]

The “using reason in the church” is just a party line.

The same church that say s this will force you to forego your conclusions if they are in any shape, size or form different from the magisterium’s conclusions. They teach that these conclusions that differ are usually from an ill aligned conscience. And since they penned their conclusions down in the Catechism, their reason and logic overrides yours.
So, in essence, they say: “Don’t think, we did it for you, and our way is better, so just read about it and believe.”

And by these statements and teachings they totally undermine the very essence of reason and logic.

Is it a lack of reason to defer to those who are more well versed in a particular subject matter than your self? Oh wait, I forgot, you already know everything! I, for one, have not learned all their is to learn, and therefore defer to my betters. It is not a great stretch to see the connection between the 6th commandment and all forms of sexual impropriety.

 

[CWBetts]

So, morals are not taken from Christianity, but morals exist outside of the church to know what is right and wrong. From whence do we get these beliefs? The same place an atheist would know that killing is wrong.

Umm, I don’t think it was tradition that decided that was it? Most would claim that the holy spirit lead the bishops to ascertain which writings were inspired or not. In 350 CE, Bishop Cyril compiled a list (close to today’s canon, but excluding revelations), based loosely on Eusebius’ list, but they differed slightly.
The synod of Ladocea was formed to decide the contents of the bible, they used the same list as Cyril. Then Athanasius, the Bishop of Alexandriain 367 published another list that looks exactly like the canon does today, but it was still undecided, people like Gregory of Nazianzus still protested some books being included.
Only in 692 was the canon list finally nailed down.

Anyway, I might be mistaken, but these events are not really part of sacred tradition, but more like a 300 year long debate. I’m not an authority on this though.

Correct, to do otherwise would be hypocritical. If you go to mass and receive communion, uphold and teach and live according to some rules but not others, you can’t call yourself catholic. True.

Thanks for that.

And if you go about all the laows in the Old Testament, being so specific, going into details on who exactly you are not allowed to sleep with, have you asked yourself why masturbation is not mentioned? Maybe it wasn’t that important? I mean while you are busy documenting all the sexual sins that there could conceivably be, including sex with cousins, and animals, etc, why not add a line for masturbation?

Oh I beg to differ. I know about Onan. Onan was punished for disobeying God. We all know about God’s reaction to people disobeying him. It could have been the anyone disobeying god under any circumstance. They all died…like the guy who steadied the ark from falling died too. It’s disobeying god that brings death.
Read it again and see if you disagree with me. And while we are on Onan’s chapter, don’t you find it a bit immoral; that god would command someone to have extra-marital sex?
It’s not about sex, because if it was then a) God wouldn’t have commanded Onan to do what he did, and b) if Onan did it have extra-marital sex, but got punished for something akin to masturbation, wouldn’t that be hypocritical?
AND, Onan didn’t touch himself. He had extra-marital sex and pulled out. That’s not masturbation by Any stretch of the imagination, and would fit more into your debate against contraception than masturbation, just fyi.

Umm, I didn’t post the thread. I just merrily hopped on board when I saw it, since I was in the Moral Theology section on “related business” anyway.

Since I just refuted all your “evidence”, a lot more.

If there is a god and he will judge me, then what condemns my soul will be matters far worse than masturbation…although for some folks here there aren’t a lot of things that are worse, that’s for sure.

Atheists have no source for objective moral truth. All they can rely on is subjective opinion. We can say objectively “killing is wrong” and we can give a reason why. All atheists can do is say that they think killing is wrong, but have no argumment as to why.

 

[PennitentMan]

Is it a lack of reason to defer to those who are more well versed in a particular subject matter than your self? Oh wait, I forgot, you already know everything!

Sarcasm…really? Okay.
The fact is that the encourage reason in one place, but teach the abandonment of it in all other places. Plain and simple. You can reply with more sarcasm, but it won’t change that.

I, for one, have not learned all there is to learn, and therefore defer to my betters. It is not a great stretch to see the connection between the 6th commandment and all forms of sexual impropriety.

Sure, for you it isn’t. Because you have been reading the Catechism and believe it. So, you are already more inclined to believe the authors over reason.

 

[PennitentMan]

Atheists have no source for objective moral truth. All they can rely on is subjective opinion. We can say objectively “killing is wrong” and we can give a reason why. All atheists can do is say that they think killing is wrong, but have no argument as to why.

I’m sorry, Objective moral truth? That would mean morality that transcends world views, religions and races…your statement is a contradiction.

 

[kage_ar]

I’m sorry, Objective moral truth? That would mean morality that transcends world views, religions and races…your statement is a contradiction.

Yes, because God IS truth. Truth does trancend, truth is eternal.

 

[PennitentMan]

Yes, because God IS truth. Truth does transcend, truth is eternal.

Sure, your truth as taught by your religion. Other religions have other truths that might not correspond to the ones that your religion teaches. Hence it’s not objective.

 

[CWBetts]

Yes, objective. I say “killing is wrong because God has said it”. An athiest says “kiliing is wrong because, well it just is” I have something to fall back on, you just have opinion

 

[Godsmessenger]

How dare you say it is not a sin
I have done it only once, and I must say it is a horrible sin to be guilty for
Although it helped to releve hormones it was in no way enjoyable
I have now changed my attitude and outlook on life because of my mistake
Before I had done it I was so lustful I would search sex related topics but after realizing what it is there is no need to have a need for masturbation
I am sorry for those sins of lust I have commited and I hope I will never feel the need to masturbate again