Masturbation: NOT A SIN

[PennitentMan]

Yes, objective.

Okay, what does this sentence even mean?

I say “killing is wrong because God has said it”. An athiest says “kiliing is wrong because, well it just is” I have something to fall back on, you just have opinion

And that statement will not fly anywhere other than in church. Mainly because no one except christians believe in your god. You will not convince Hindus with that statement, You will not convince Buddhists with that statement, You will not convince Krishnas with that statement, You will not convince Islamists with that statement, You will not convince Taoists with that statement…you see where I’m going with this?

 

[kage_ar]

So, tell me, without using any religious reason, explain how Hitler was wrong.

 

[CWBetts]

Okay, what does this sentence even mean?

And that statement will not fly anywhere other than in church. Mainly because no one except christians believe in your god. You will not convince Hindus with that statement, You will not convince Buddhists with that statement, You will not convince Krishnas with that statement, You will not convince Islamists with that statement, You will not convince Taoists with that statement…you see where I’m going with this?

If they are reasonable, I will. For example if a Muslim tells me “I do not drink alcohol because Allah forbids it” then I respect that choice, because they have a reason. Without religion, there is no reason to make a moral choice.

 

[PennitentMan]

So, tell me, without using any religious reason, explain how Hitler was wrong.

Ummm, because he killed people. That’s wrong. (That’s the short answer. Hey, you asked.)

Wasn’t Hitler a Christian? I’m sure he mentioned lot of Christian religion in his speeches.

From “Mein Kampf”: ” Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord…”

 

[CWBetts]

Ummm, because he killed people. That’s wrong. (That’s the short answer. Hey, you asked.)

Wasn’t Hitler a Christian? I’m sure he mentioned lot of Christian religion in his speeches.

From “Mein Kampf”: ” Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord…”

Why is killing wrong? Without some form of religion, you have no real reason to make any kind of moral judgement. Why is killing wrong?

 

[kage_ar]

Ummm, because he killed people. That’s wrong. (That’s the short answer. Hey, you asked.)

Wasn’t Hitler a Christian? I’m sure he mentioned lot of Christian religion in his speeches.

From “Mein Kampf”: ” Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord…”

Why is it wrong to kill people?

 

[PennitentMan]

If they are reasonable, I will. For example if a Muslim tells me “I do not drink alcohol because Allah forbids it” then I respect that choice, because they have a reason. Without religion, there is no reason to make a moral choice.

Of course there are reasons….respect for your fellow man, love, decency, these are all reasons to be moral and to make moral choices.

It’s also an unfair label to say that Atheists have no morals. Atheism is not a complete worldview - it is simply a stance on whether or not any gods exist. You have to pose this question to anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your branch of religion.
Take your example above. If you say to that same Muslim that it’s not OK to kill (as per the persisting example in this hypothetical) then he may say one of two things: 1) Yes, you are right, my God also teaches that. 2) You are wrong, my God teaches that all infidels must die and it’s our duty to pro-actively seek out their deaths.

See?

 

[PennitentMan]

Why is it wrong to kill people?

Let’s put it simply:

I’ll ask you: “Do you want me to kill you?”
You’ll say “no”
That’s why killing is wrong.

[addition]
I’ll elaborate a bit:
it’s the basic premise of “I won’t harm you if you won’t harm me and I will attempt to aid you if you will attempt to aid me.”
What it means is that I usually treat the world how I myself wish to be treated. And since I don’t wish to be killed or stolen from or raped in a dark alley or you name it, I don’t do it to others.

 

[CWBetts]

Let’s put it simply:

I’ll ask you: “Do you want me to kill you?”
You’ll say “no”
That’s why killing is wrong.

[addition]
I’ll elaborate a bit:
it’s the basic premise of “I won’t harm you if you won’t harm me and I will attempt to aid you if you will attempt to aid me.”
What it means is that I usually treat the world how I myself wish to be treated. And since I don’t wish to be killed or stolen from or raped in a dark alley or you name it, I don’t do it to others.

Fine. Still just an opinion. Those without religion have no real reason for anything, other than it is just theor own opinion. Hitler had a differing opinion. He felt entitled to kill Jews. He, being himan had just as much right to his opinion as you do yours. Without religion you cannot definitively say something is “wrong” or “right” All you have stated is an opinion, but you stil have yet to back it up.

 

[CWBetts]

Of course there are reasons….respect for your fellow man, love, decency, these are all reasons to be moral and to make moral choices.

It’s also an unfair label to say that Atheists have no morals. Atheism is not a complete worldview - it is simply a stance on whether or not any gods exist. You have to pose this question to anyone who doesn’t subscribe to your branch of religion.
Take your example above. If you say to that same Muslim that it’s not OK to kill (as per the persisting example in this hypothetical) then he may say one of two things: 1) Yes, you are right, my God also teaches that. 2) You are wrong, my God teaches that all infidels must die and it’s our duty to pro-actively seek out their deaths.

See?

Atheists have no reason for moral behavior. There is no sin, no worries.

 

[PennitentMan]

Fine. Still just an opinion. Those without religion have no real reason for anything, other than it is just theor own opinion. Hitler had a differing opinion. He felt entitled to kill Jews. He, being himan had just as much right to his opinion as you do yours. Without religion you cannot definitively say something is “wrong” or “right” All you have stated is an opinion, but you stil have yet to back it up.

And I’ll put before you again that yours is just another opinion. When you back yours up you will have to prove that your god exists over the other person’s god. You can’t just quote the song “The bible tells us so” and expect to be taken seriously. So, your opinion counts for as much as mine.

Interesting tough that your opinion, based on religion is the same as my opinion…the only difference is that you do it for fear of hell or to please Someone Else. I do it because I want to. Out of good natured humanity.

 

[PennitentMan]

Atheists have no reason for moral behavior. There is no sin, no worries.

I see you didn’t understand my explanation. That’s OK though, I didn’t really expect you to, it’s just inherently expected from your point of view (Christianity)

 

[CWBetts]

The reason killing is wrong, aside form the commandment, is the inherent dignity and value of human life. This inherent dignity and value comes form the fact thet we are created in God’s image and likeness. The Atheist view is that we are randomly evolved bags of chemicals. The difference between humans and animals is the abilty to reason. Where is the dignity and value in that? There is none. Atheism must be a life of unimaginible despair. A life with neither source nor purpose, partky because a human is an animal that can think.

 

[distracted]

the Catechism, their reason and logic overrides yours.
So, in essence, they say: “Don’t think, we did it for you, and our way is better, so just read about it and believe.”

And by these statements and teachings they totally undermine the very essence of reason and logic.

well… you can sin, repent, sin again, repent… think about this, think about that, meditate on this, meditate on that…

if you w ant to waste your time re-inventing the wheel, that is your choice…

 

[distracted]

Ummm, because he killed people. That’s wrong. (That’s the short answer. Hey, you asked.)

Wasn’t Hitler a Christian? I’m sure he mentioned lot of Christian religion in his speeches.

From “Mein Kampf”: ” Hitler wrote: “I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord…”

if hitler was a Christian, then i am NOT…
but he wasnt… he sent Catholics to the concent camps about as easily as he did Jews… He hated the RCC… and knew the pope was against him (though the pope did not broadcast this own opposition to hitler loudly… it would have mean more killing.

as to that last thing:

Big deal… Most people justify their wrong-doing in such ways as this…

I’m getting sick and tired of hearing that Hitler was Catholic ( Christian) …

A Christian is someone who follows Christ (with his/her whole self).

End o’sentence…

 

[PennitentMan]

The reason killing is wrong, aside form the commandment, is the inherent dignity and value of human life. This inherent dignity and value comes form the fact thet we are created in God’s image and likeness. The Atheist view is that we are randomly evolved bags of chemicals. The difference between humans and animals is the abilty to reason. Where is the dignity and value in that? There is none. Atheism must be a life of unimaginible despair. A life with neither source nor purpose, partky because a human is an animal that can think.

Actually there is great dignity and value in that. It’s what makes us the dominant life form on the planet. It’s also exactly the reason I gave, but from the Christian perspective.
We value human life. Just because I don’t believe that there is a god that created us doesn’t detract from that value. We can marvel at our own intelligence that evolved through natural selection.

 

[PennitentMan]

Well, guys n gals, it’s been fun, but I gotta start heading home now.

Have yourselves a great easter weekend, I’m gonna eat me some chocolates ‘till I ‘splode

See you on the flip—side

PM.

 

[distracted]

Well, guys n gals, it’s been fun, but I gotta start heading home now.

Have yourselves a great easter weekend, I’m gonna eat me some chocolates ‘till I ‘splode

See you on the flip—side

PM.

no answer to #332?

of course not…

there is no argument for truth…

(but i thought you would give one just the same… )…

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Hitler was more likely to have been a follower of Protestanism and a fan of Luther’s work “On the Jews and their Lies”.

Yes… it was not Catholicism that would lead a man like Hitler to torture and kill Jews. But Protestantism has many such tales.

A few lines from Luther’s masterful works that would surely enthuse the likes of Hitler.

Luther writes that those who continue to adhere to Judaism are a “base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth.”[1] Luther wrote that they are “full of the devil’s feces … which they wallow in like swine,”[2] and the synagogue is an “incorrigible whore and an evil slut …”[3] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[4] afforded no legal protection,[5] and these “poisonous envenomed worms” should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[6] He also seems to tolerate the murder of Jews, writing “[w]e are at fault in not slaying them.”[7]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

Proestants are good at twisting history… must be all the practice with twisting scripture from it’s intended meaning.

 

[PennitentMan]

#332

if hitler was a Christian, then i am NOT…
but he wasnt… he sent Catholics to the concent camps about as easily as he did Jews… He hated the RCC… and knew the pope was against him (though the pope did not broadcast this own opposition to hitler loudly… it would have mean more killing.

as to that last thing:

Big deal… Most people justify their wrong-doing in such ways as this…

I’m getting sick and tired of hearing that Hitler was Catholic ( Christian) …

A Christian is someone who follows Christ (with his/her whole self).

End o’sentence…

no answer to #332?

of course not…

there is no argument for truth…

(but i thought you would give one just the same… )…

Umm, okay, first I think it’s a cheap shot to call me out like that when I have announced that I’m heading home.
Second, you are acting smug about nothing. All I did was post a quote by Hitler himself. You got all worked up over that. Sure, I can understand that, but I can’t understand what was so special about post #332 that you had to call me out on it?
It was just your statement, that’s all. What’s this about truth? I’m sorry I don’t get your tone and I don’t get your point. (Copied it in here for reference, btw)

Well, at the risk of repeating myself, I’m not going to post here again this weekend, I’m on vacation now, so I’ll post again on Tuesday.

Sheesh…

PM