Masturbation...why?

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lileli said:
🙂 a practice that would seem very strange in today’s Church!
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That’s why I find it strange that an elaborate theology against masturbation is based to a great extent upon a rather ambiguous story in Genesis. Exactly what it was that God killed Onan for is not totally clear. Not to mention that God killed lots of other people in the Old Testament, sometimes for rather minor transgressions.

In one story in 2 Samuel 6:6-7, they were transporting the Ark of the Covenant on a cart and once when it was in danger of falling off the cart, someone named Uzzah, one of the drivers of the cart, reached out his hand to steady it. Then, “The anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God struck him there because he reached out his hand to the ark; and he died there beside the ark of God.”
 
Thorolfr said:
That’s why I find it strange that an elaborate theology against masturbation is based to a great extent upon a rather ambiguous story in Genesis. Exactly what it was that God killed Onan for is not totally clear. Not to mention that God killed lots of other people in the Old Testament, sometimes for rather minor transgressions.

In one story in 2 Samuel 6:6-7, they were transporting the Ark of the Covenant on a cart and once when it was in danger of falling off the cart, someone named Uzzah, one of the drivers of the cart, reached out his hand to steady it. Then, “The anger of the Lord was kindled against Uzzah; and God struck him there because he reached out his hand to the ark; and he died there beside the ark of God.”
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The God of Old Testament was very similar to god of the romans etc. However, I get yelled at for pointing out historical context.
 
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.
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The case against masturbation is not solely based on Onan’s sin. It is, of course, a strong argument for its Scriptural basis, but the primary principle here is stated in the Catechism. “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” This is a consistent and logical application of Divine Law to human sexuality. From this principle we also condemn sodomy, homosexuality, adultery, fornication, pedophilia, sexual fetishes, BDSM, and the like.
 
I’m a big believer in unions since management can be very cruel to working people.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
What does your book say about it?
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I didn’t literally mean a book but I do believe the Church needs to rethink its entire model in regards to sex and sexuality. For 1500 years it has been a model of repression, which is psychologically unhealthy. Sex is a gift and like all gifts it must consumed in moderation. Having extreme negative feelings about sex is just as psychologically damaging as having an obsession with sex.
 
=lileli;13195892]I didn’t literally mean a book but I do believe the Church needs to rethink its entire model in regards to sex and sexuality.
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Let me guess: Because American social liberals have all the answers now, and somewhere there’s a study that shows it’s all neat and good, right?

Oh, yes, they all look oh so happy…

It’s comments like those that make me so glad I am a Catholic. 👍
For 1500 years it has been a model of repression, which is psychologically unhealthy.
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So let me get this straight----this comment is suggesting that having sex with a bunch of different people, masturbating and looking or pornography is psychologically healthy?

Have you seen the peer-reviewed research and testimonies from prostitutes and porn actors on this?
Sex is a gift and like all gifts it must consumed in moderation.
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And how often does that happen?

For those who masturbate, look at porn, fornicate ect. and for those who think it’s just another thing to do, like going for a walk, **try and stop **and see how that goes— and by all means tell me with unswerving confidence that you are complete control and that’s just another day at the office.
Having extreme negative feelings about sex is just as psychologically damaging as having an obsession with sex.
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And you think that having sex or performing other sexual activities is the way out for these negative feelings?

Like we haven’t heard that one before. :rolleyes:

And what about pedophiles, zoophiles,objectophiles, rapists and necrophiliacs? If they are being “repressed” by today’s laws, isn’t that psychologically damaging as well? By progressive standards, why should they be repressed by society’s laws but so-called gay “marriage” can be celebrated in the streets?
 
SuperLuigi said:
Let me guess: Because American social liberals have all the answers now, and somewhere there’s a study that shows it’s all neat and good, right?

Oh, yes, they all look oh so happy…

It’s comments like those that make me so glad I am a Catholic. 👍

So let me get this straight----this comment is suggesting that having sex with a bunch of different people, masturbating and looking or pornography is psychologically healthy?

Have you seen the peer-reviewed research and testimonies from prostitutes and porn actors on this?

And how often does that happen?

For those who masturbate, look at porn, fornicate ect. and for those who think it’s just another thing to do, like going for a walk, **try and stop **and see how that goes— and by all means tell me with unswerving confidence that you are complete control and that’s just another day at the office.

And you think that having sex or performing other sexual activities is the way out for these negative feelings?

Like we haven’t heard that one before. :rolleyes:

And what about pedophiles, zoophiles,objectophiles, rapists and necrophiliacs? If they are being “repressed” by today’s laws, isn’t that psychologically damaging as well? By progressive standards, why should they be repressed by society’s laws but so-called gay “marriage” can be celebrated in the streets?
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I don’t know whyyou are attacking Liberals and I don’t think you read my comment closely or carefully.Also, I don’t agree with your implied definition of liberalism When did I advocate for anyone to become a porn star? I clearly state that obsession with sex is just as dangerous as repression. Both cause great harm! I healthy relationship with sex is needed just like a healthy relationship with food is needed or else one becomes obese. I am also a Catholic:)
 
SuperLuigi said:
Um, no. :dts:
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The gods of the Romans were very quick to anger and would kill people on a whim. The God of the old testament also was very quick to anger etc. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the stories used similar attributes. Humans also personify their gods with attributes of the current culture and surrounding cultures.
 
=lileli;13196332]I don’t know hwy you are attacking Liberals and I don’t think you read my comment closely or carefully. When did I advocate for anyone to become a porn star?
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The following did not occur:
  1. Not reading comments closely enough
  2. Attacking liberals
  3. Insinuation prior comments advocated becoming a porn star
I clearly state that obsession with sex is just as dangerous as repression. Both cause great harm! I healthy relationship with sex is needed just like a healthy relationship with food is needed or else one becomes obese.
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Those comments are anything but clear, and the prior response is an evasion of my points.
 
SuperLuigi said:
The following did not occur:
  1. Not reading comments closely enough
  2. Attacking liberals
  3. Insinuation prior comments advocated becoming a porn star
Those comments are anything but clear, and the prior response is an evasion of my points.
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You countered with extreme examples and therefore it seems like you didn’t read my post at all. Water in excess is dangerous, the same goes for sex but just because in excess it is dangerous doesn’t mean it always is dangerous.
 
lileli said:
The gods of the Romans were very quick to anger and would kill people on a whim. The God of the old testament also was very quick to anger etc. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the stories used similar attributes. Humans also personify their gods with attributes of the current culture and surrounding cultures.
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The false gods of Rome didn’t kill anyone since they didn’t exist. The Bible describes God as actually being pretty patient with the Isrealities on many occasions.

Please don’t lump the True God in with the old pagan gods like He’s just another ordinary, make-believe deity.

Also, these kinds of comparisons are very one-dimensional in nature and are used by secularists in attempts to elevate their position as “being above” religion.
 
lileli said:
You countered with extreme examples and therefore it seems like you didn’t read my post at all. Water in excess is dangerous, the same goes for sex but just because in excess it is dangerous doesn’t mean it always is dangerous.
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Extreme examples?

Homosexual “marriage” used to be considered extreme. How much longer will the others be “extreme”? 🤷

Comparing water and sex is absurd, and the effects of sexual activity that disregard Catholic morality and natural law speak for itself: destructive behaviors that harm individuals, society and that it’s advocates need to made excuses to cover-up the consequences.

The whole “sex in moderation” claim only applies to those in a valid marriage who conduct sexual activity appropriately.

That is the gift of sex, not masturbating to internet porn because of stress, having a same-gender relationship, or playing house.

:tiphat:
 
SuperLuigi said:
The false gods of Rome didn’t kill anyone since they didn’t exist. The Bible describes God as actually being pretty patient with the Isrealities on many occasions.

Please don’t lump the True God in with the old pagan gods like He’s just another ordinary make-believe deity.

Also, these kinds of comparisons are very one-dimensional in nature and are used by secularists in attempts to elevate their position as “being above” religion.
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There are many instances in the old testament where God seems like a completely different God than the one present in the New Testament. I don’t believe God had such a radical change of heart rather the authors of the Old Testament were writing through their cultural lens. As we know, the Church does no take everything from bible literally and they have good reason not to do so.
 
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