Actually, that factor is more rightly phrased as “Do you know it is grave matter?” Masturbation is always grave matter. Mortal sin requires three conditions: Grave matter, full knowledge, and full consent of the will.
Saying that non-lustful masturbation is clearly against Catholic teaching does not answer his other question of degree. And the practice is not specifically contemplated by the Catechism, thus an explanation is clearly in order as to how it comes under the ban.
Where are you going with this? Do you find anything in my answer that would make you believe I would assert the contrary? After all, I did post earlier: “Non-lustful masturbation would likely still constitute grave matter, which if combined with full knowledge and full will, would make it mortally sinful.”
It answers the question of whether it is grave matter.
The catechism addresses all masturbation (“for whatever reason”); there is no need to treat specific cases. Though perhaps it is an interesting academic exercise.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.
But recognizing it as grave matter does not answer the question of degree, unless you equate the moral degree of beating someone up with killing him.
You might think there is no need to treat specific cases, but the OP thought his specific case was worth asking about despite knowing that the Church teaches that masturbation is always wrong. He was looking for a loophole, he said. Giving him the same answer that he already knew (the Church teaches masturbation is always wrong) just didn’t seem so helpful to his inquiry.
Oh, fair enough, I see what you mean.
The OP heard “someone said it was only a sin if there was fantasizing involved”. I believe that has been sufficiently corrected by the specific Church teaching and the OP seems to have accepted that.
That’s probably the most offensive, ungenerous, rude, pompous and obnoxious answer to any question that I have ever read. Congratulations. I have read many post while being here a short time and I can see why the great decline in the catholic church. I can also see the attitude that caused the church to dictate, persecute, torture and kill people when it had the power to do so. Thanks be to a loving god that he saw fit to down size the church so dramatically and I pray it never has that much power again.
Great answer, I would agree.
There is no such thing as masturbating without lust.
I find women attractive, I just don’t find them sexually attractive, meaning I don’t think about having sex with them. I definitely have the capacity and ability to love.
Sorry to hear that. However truth isn’t for sale.
Fasle.
Sin always hurts the sinner and by extention to the whole human family.
Your opinion is contrary to Catholic teaching and is rightfully rejected.
Quote:
And as such the Teaching of the Church regarding the gravely disordered nature of this topic here (see Catechism and other documents of the Church etc)-- is yes free.
Yes, I can see that this is a rule set in stone as far as the catholic church is concerned. That is helpful in of its self, the fact that reconciliation seems to be there to counter this human condition speaks of forgiveness for being human, and yes human beings have their faults, I’m still not convinced that this is mortal sin and yet human beings do indeed have their faults, but for this reason we have been given a great sacrifice so we are able to reconcile to god. I believe this is a good message, but its also clear that’s not the message many here are attempting to lend. The message most are conveying is- The church said don’t do it, so if you do your doomed, and any other opinion will be met with verbal battle and hate! No counsel, no love, no understanding, just- Kneel or die dogs. Is that really the message so many are attempting to convey here? I’m not saying that about all the posters here, its very easy to see which posts I am referring to. That type of intolerant condemning attitude should be driven from the church as a plague of death.
So you don’t like being told you’re wrong. Fine, I suppose it’s not the most persuasive method around. Nevertheless, you came onto a Catholic forum, decrying Catholic teaching, and by claiming that a life devoid of masturbation was impossible, denying that God’s grace is sufficient to overcome the sin of masturbation, and mocking Catholic saints who have done so. Such an attitude warrants strong condemnation lest others be confused. I even suspect your earlier post violated the forum rules about respect due to the Catholic faith. I think it’s great that you’re on here searching for greater truths, but please be more respectful when making your inquiries.
Tis not a question of rules. But of truth and love.
I suppose we could try, with the understanding that I don’t find you to be a generous or caring person and would not recommend you as a counselor or therapist at this point. No, being told I’m wrong is not offensive to me if its done with respect, you and I would have big problems face to face, although I doubt you would have the courage to speak to me like that face to face. People portray them selves differently in real time social encounters, much differently than they do while typing away at another post, this new communication devise many times causes a decided indifference or even rudeness when addressing others. Ok, back to the topic, the reason I believe masturbation is not some grave sin unto death as portrayed by many here is the act in its self does not hurt anyone if its done in the privacy of ones home, and I’m not speaking for the entire world, just for those having trouble with the issue. Fighting what appears to be a natural form of sexual release for those with no other form of sexual release could cause more severe problems, while engaging in this act as a natural release could indeed keep one from committing a notable sin, or even a crime. Say the crime of rape, I believe this issue is fully entangled with the very controversial celibacy issues the church must constantly deal with, if some one feels condemned no matter what they do it brings on a sense of helplessness and hopelessness which psychology teaches is the perfect storm setting for a violent reaction. Violence can be acted out in many ways, none of them good. So when making something as seemingly harmless as masturbation a sin, or a feeling of condemnation we are setting some one up for failure or worse. Wouldn’t you think?