Masturbation

[NotWorthy]

I’ve never followed any faith so the point is moot.

Christians like to ignore parts of the OT when it suits them. How can that be right if the bible is God’s word, you either follow all of it or none of it. There’s no cherry picking for the parts that fit the agenda.

For example, Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain sections that are absolutely barbaric. If God is unchanging how do you justify ignoring those unsavoury parts?

Are you saying that God is changing. How can God be perfect and changing? If you are perfect, then there is no need to change, or else you wouldn’t have been perfect in the first place.

Leviticus was written for a people that had just abandoned God in the place of a golden calf. Notice that God made the tribes of Israel sacrifice animals that were worshipped in Egypt. You see this in Exodus when Moses asks Pharaoh to let his people go out into the desert and make sacrifices to their God. He told Pharaoh they have to go out into the wilderness because Pharaoh would find the sacrfices abominable.

I’ve heard Leviticus and all the sacrifices compared to a woman that is married to an alcoholic. She wakes him up and gives him a bottle of whiskey and a hammer. She tells the husband to break the bottle and pour the whiskey down the sink or else she will leave him. The guy does it and thinks “Hey, life is great!!!” The following morning, and every morning after that, the man is again waken up with a bottle of whiskey, the hammer, and the same threat. All these sacrfices of bulls, rams, lambs, and such were to remind the Israelites that they were the gods you used to worship in Egypt in place of Yahweh.

The Laws of Deuteronomy, on the other hand were written by Moses. Notice that when God talks to Moses before “Calf-Gate”, He calls the tribes, “My people” (“Moses, tell My people this…”). After the incident at Sinai, God never refers to them as “My people” again. He lets Moses deal with these people. You see this in the New Testament when Jesus describes the allowance of divorces as, “because Moses couldn’t deal with your hardened hearts” (paraphrasing).

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi,

Where in the OT is masturbation detested? I ask because I honestly dont know.

Genesis 38:8-10 seems to spell it out. It looks like it condemns any sex that leaves out the possibility of pro-creation.

8 Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his. So whenever he went in to his brother’s wife he would waste the semen on the ground, so as not to give offspring to his brother. 10 And what he did was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

 

[NotWorthy]

I’ve never followed any faith so the point is moot.

Christians like to ignore parts of the OT when it suits them. How can that be right if the bible is God’s word, you either follow all of it or none of it. There’s no cherry picking for the parts that fit the agenda.

So it looks like you are your own little pope, then? Good for you!! I don’t have the ability to determine all that is right in the world and would never trust myself to so great a responsibility.

 

[Scottgun]

For example, Leviticus and Deuteronomy contain sections that are absolutely barbaric. If God is unchanging how do you justify ignoring those unsavoury parts?

Good biblical scholars do not ignore, but neither do they lookat the Bible the way a butcher looks at a pig, which is too often the case with non-believers with an axe to grind against it. It is an unfolding revelation and yes, some things in the OT are superceded by the NT.

How and Why Discussions With Agnostics and Atheists Often (Sadly) Collapse / The Many Logical Fallacies of Ed Babinski and Friends

 

[starling]

Never rely on converted Protestants for your advice - and most people on here appear to be just that. Nothing wrong with that, but they haven’t been raised in the Catholic culture. It takes years to be able to relax. They are still hellfire and brimstone Bible-thumping fundamentalist Christians at heart. Most seasoned Catholics would tell you to be compassionate to yourself, as Priests are (or should be) to their parishioners, and as Christ is to everyone. Even Pope Benedict himself has said the Church cannot be just an institution that tells people what not to do. Does anyone really think a man can go for years without any sexual release? It’s wrong. Ok, so make an effort to minimize it, and go to Confession. Don’t torture yourself for not being perfect. Only God Himself is that.

 

[R_McGeddon]

So it looks like you are your own little pope, then? Good for you!!

What do you mean by this?

I don’t have the ability to determine all that is right in the world and would never trust myself to so great a responsibility.

I don’t either, what’s your point?

 

[NotWorthy]

What do you mean by this?

I don’t either, what’s your point?

Evidently, you don’t follow any Church. You don’t follow the bible (or at least the OT is ignored). How do you decide what is sinful or not?

 

[Scottgun]

Does anyone really think a man can go for years without any sexual release?

If you mean can a man go for years without resorting to immoral means for sexual release, then yes.

It’s wrong. Ok, so make an effort to minimize it, and go to Confession. Don’t torture yourself for not being perfect. Only God Himself is that.

You are right that one should not beat themselves up, but people can do more than just minimize it. They can stop cold turkey and never do it again with God’s help. And as Our Lord said, “Be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” He would not have said this if it were not possible. So a word of encouragement to anyone doing this and wanting to stop. You can, you can stop immediately, and you can never do it again. Live chastely. You can do it with God’s grace.

Scott

 

[Saint_Michael]

I knew masturbation was a sin the first time I did it. To this day if I slip and do it I feel ashamed. There’s no way someone can masturbate and be like “o.k. feeling fine”, no, you’re embarassed, and it’s for a reason that you’re embarassed.

 

[mysticalrose7]

+J.M.J+

>>>Didn’t the Church used to say that masturbation caused blindness, madness and deformity?

That was never a Catholic teaching, but it was considered common “medical knowledge” during the 19th and early 20th centuries (eventually proven wrong, of course). I’m sure many Catholics, including clergy, believed it the same way they accepted other things that doctors said. That doesn’t make it a doctrine, though.

>>>Does anyone really think a man can go for years without any sexual release? It’s wrong.

Yes, many men do, and it’s not wrong or unnatural. Nothing is impossible with God. And the Catholic Church officially teaches that masturbation is morally disordered:

“Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved” (CCC 2352).

>>>I also, maybe in an attempt to justify my habit, seriously considered becoming a Protestant a few months ago.

If you do that you’ll cut yourself off from the Sacrament of Penance, where you can receive forgiveness and graces to help you overcome sin. Your problem would only get worse.

There are many resources for Catholics struggling with sins against purity. Full disclosure: I wrote one of them, the book Clean of Heart . But here are a few others:

Breaking Free: 12 Steps to Sexual Purity for Men (pamphlet) by Steve Wood. (Family Life Center). Available online at: catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4167

How to Resist Temptation by Fr. Francis J. Remler. (Sophia Institute Press). - this one is great!

Winning the Battle for Sexual Purity: Straight Talk with Men about Love and Life by Christopher West. (Ascension Press)

Hope that helps. God bless you.

In Jesu et Maria,
Rosemarie Scott

 

[mysticalrose7]

+J.M.J+

Oh, one more thing, FWIW:

>>>Where and why does it say that masturbation is a sin?

Old Testament: “Two types of men multiply sins, a third draws down wrath; For burning passion is a blazing fire, not to be quenched till it burns itself out: A man given to sins of the flesh, who never stops until the fire breaks forth” (Sirach/Ecclesiasticus 23:16)

(The footnote in the Confraternity Version indicates that this passage condemns “solitary sins” of impurity. Unfortunately, this is one of the books that most Protestants don’t accept.)

New Testament: masturbation falls into the general category of “impurity,” so any condemnation of “impurity” includes masturbation: see Romans 6:19, 2 Corinthians 12:21, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 4:19, 5:3, Colossians 3:5, 1 Thessalonians 4:3-7.

With masturbation we please ourselves, our flesh, but as Christians we are called to please God and to deny ourselves: “If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me” (St. Matthew 16:24). Masturbation is incompatable with self-denial and taking up the cross.

The following words of St. Paul completely rule out any form of impurity, including masturbation:

“Flee immorality. Every sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your members are the temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been bought with a price. Glorify God and bear him in your body.” (1 Corinthians 6:15-20)

“Among you there must not be even a mention of fornication or impurity in any of its forms, or promiscuity; this would hardly become the saints! There must be no coarseness or salacious talk and jokes - all this is wrong for you; raise your voices in thanksgiving instead.” (Ephesians 5:3-4 JB)

“Therefore mortify your members, which are on earth: immorality, uncleanness, lust, evil desire and covetousness (which is a form of idol worship). Because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the unbelievers, and you yourselves once walked in them when they were your life. But now do you also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, abusive language and foul-mouthed utterances.” - Colossians 3:5-8

“For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that you should abstain from immorality, that every one of you learn how to possess his vessel in holiness and honor, not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles that do not know God…. For God has not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.” (I Thessalonians 4:3-7)

Hope that helps.

In Jesu et Maria,
Rosemarie Scott

 

[R_McGeddon]

Evidently, you don’t follow any Church.

That’s right, I don’t.

You don’t follow the bible (or at least the OT is ignored).

I don’t follow the OT or NT.

How do you decide what is sinful or not?

For me there is no such thing as sin, only right and wrong. Sin is something invented by the church to oppress people.

 

[NotWorthy]

That’s right, I don’t.

I don’t follow the OT or NT.

For me there is no such thing as sin, only right and wrong. Sin is something invented by the church to oppress people.

Hence the term, “Your Holiness”!!!

 

[wanner47]

That’s right, I don’t.

I don’t follow the OT or NT.

For me there is no such thing as sin, only right and wrong. Sin is something invented by the church to oppress people.

Okay, then, how do you decide what is right and wrong? And by your logic, that’s a subjective decision made by the individual, right?

For the sake of argument, what if I think that murder is acceptable? Hypothetically, I think that if my husband ticks me off, then I’m perfectly justified in killing him*.

Who are YOU to tell me that I’m wrong? I’ve decided that murder is acceptable to my conscience.

Maybe you don’t think so, but since I am the ONLY person who can decide what’s right and what’s wrong for me, I should be able to murder him.

And if civil law says I’m wrong, well, the law is something that people have made up to oppress others. I’m being OPPRESSED by the law because I can’t decide for myself what is right and wrong! I shouldn’t be punished or oppressed for following my conscience, right?

“No,” you might say, “civil law was created to protect the rights of others.”

But what about MY rights? Why can’t I live as I see fit? If I choose to murder someone, and if I can decide for myself what is right and what is wrong, then civil law is infringing upon MY rights!

Where did the people who made civil law come up with their code, anyhow? Who are they to decide what is right and what is wrong? Shouldn’t we all be able to decide that for ourselves?

It seems to me that civil law is just as oppressive as the concept of sin - yet I’m assuming you obey civil law.

The UK is “forcing” its beliefs on you, and “oppressing” you by not allowing you to decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong, but you have no problem following the law, right? Why?

*Note: I love my husband dearly and have no intention of harming him in any way!

 

[MountainMan]

BigDL -

My advice is simple, and you may have already heard it: Pray the Rosary and ask Mary’s intercession on your behalf in this area. Especially during the Sorrowful Mysteries, imagine the mocking Jesus received throughout those mysteries, and the role sin had in all of that.

Chuck

 

[R_McGeddon]

Hence the term, “Your Holiness”!!!

 

[R_McGeddon]

Okay, then, how do you decide what is right and wrong? And by your logic, that’s a subjective decision made by the individual, right?

Or a group of individuals.

For the sake of argument, what if I think that murder is acceptable? Hypothetically, I think that if my husband ticks me off, then I’m perfectly justified in killing him*.

You would also have to accept that someone murdering you is acceptable then, and make sure you don’t tick anyone off at the same time.

Who are YOU to tell me that I’m wrong? I’ve decided that murder is acceptable to my conscience.

Could you live knowing that you may be on the revieving of a murder??

Maybe you don’t think so, but since I am the ONLY person who can decide what’s right and what’s wrong for me, I should be able to murder him.

And he should be able to murder you.

And if civil law says I’m wrong, well, the law is something that people have made up to oppress others. I’m being OPPRESSED by the law because I can’t decide for myself what is right and wrong! I shouldn’t be punished or oppressed for following my conscience, right?

In a word, no. Nobody would think that preventing murder by the rule of law is oppressive.

“No,” you might say, “civil law was created to protect the rights of others.”

You got that right.

But what about MY rights? Why can’t I live as I see fit? If I choose to murder someone, and if I can decide for myself what is right and what is wrong, then civil law is infringing upon MY rights!

No, it is upholding everybody elses’ right not to be murdered.

Where did the people who made civil law come up with their code, anyhow? Who are they to decide what is right and what is wrong?

They are elected by the people, it’s called democracy. Who elected the church???

Shouldn’t we all be able to decide that for ourselves?

That depends if you could live under anarchy or not.

It seems to me that civil law is just as oppressive as the concept of sin

No it is not, laws can be modified to suit. Can sin?

yet I’m assuming you obey civil law.

Of course I do.

The UK is “forcing” its beliefs on you, and “oppressing” you by not allowing you to decide for yourself what is right and what is wrong

The laws are in place to stop the minority of criminals and to protect the majority that are law abiding.

but you have no problem following the law, right? Why?

If you follow the law you benefit from its protection.

*Note: I love my husband dearly and have no intention of harming him in any way!

I took that for granted.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Genesis 38:8-10 seems to spell it out. It looks like it condemns any sex that leaves out the possibility of pro-creation.

Hi,

Thanks for the verse. I think that is a stretch though. God was angry at Onan because he deliberately was disobedient to God. God specifically told him what to do and he disobeyed. IMHO I think that verse,in context, had more to do with the disobedience than sex or procreation. Now, Im not looking to debat this issue as it would be off topic. Back to topic now

 

[Mickey]

I think that is a stretch though. God was angry at Onan because he deliberately was disobedient to God. God specifically told him what to do and he disobeyed. IMHO I think that verse,in context, had more to do with the disobedience than sex or procreation.

The difficulty with this argument is that violation of the Levirate law was not a capital offense. If a man didn’t fulfill his obligations to his deceased brother’s wife, she was to take the matter to the elders, who would counsel him and try to persuade him to change his mind. If he persisted, the widow was to “go up to him and strip his sandal from his foot and spit in his face, saying publicly, ‘This is how one should be treated who will not build up his brother’s family!’” (Deut. 25:9).
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9107chap.asp

 

[ALLFORHIM]

The difficulty with this argument is that violation of the Levirate law was not a capital offense. If a man didn’t fulfill his obligations to his deceased brother’s wife, she was to take the matter to the elders, who would counsel him and try to persuade him to change his mind. If he persisted, the widow was to “go up to him and strip his sandal from his foot and spit in his face, saying publicly, ‘This is how one should be treated who will not build up his brother’s family!’” (Deut. 25:9).
catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9107chap.asp

Hi,
Im not sure I get how this relates to masturbation?