Matt Fradd on Andrew Cuomo and Excommunication

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How are you using “parish” here? As the geographical territory in which your house is?
 
Can. 100 A person is said to be: a resident ( incola ) in the place where the person has a domicile; a temporary resident ( advena ) in the place where the person has a quasi-domicile; a traveler ( peregrinus ) if the person is outside the place of a domicile or quasi-domicile which is still retained; a transient ( vagus ) if the person does not have a domicile or quasi- domicile anywhere.

Can. 102 §1. Domicile is acquired by that residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called away or has been protracted for five complete years.

§2. Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there for at least three months unless called away or has in fact been protracted for three months.

§3. A domicile or quasi-domicile within the territory of a parish is called parochial; within the territory of a diocese, even though not within a parish, diocesan.

Can. 106 Domicile and quasi-domicile are lost by departure from a place with the intention of not returning, without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 105.

Can. 107 §1. Through both domicile and quasi-domicile, each person acquires his or her pastor and ordinary.

§2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or local ordinary where the transient is actually residing.

§3. The proper pastor of one who has only a diocesan domicile or quasi-domicile is the pastor of the place where the person is actually residing.
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http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PC.HTM

It’s through domicile and quasi-domicile that we obtain our pastor and ordinary. Not location of birth, where we were raised, where we were baptized, or where we go to Mass on Sundays.

So now the question is, where is Gov. Cuomo’s actual residence? The (arch)bishop of whichever (arch)diocese his actual house is in is the man in charge.

An even more pressing question is this: What actual charge do we suggest Gov. Cuomo be excommunicated for? You can’t just arbitrarily inflict a juridical sentence without the person actually being guilty of a specified crime. Be specific. Cite a canon. The relevant canons are here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P4U.HTM
 
All we know for certain is Bishop of Albany says Cuomo isn’t in his jurisdiction. So that means the governor’s mansion does not count as Cuomo’s residence. So I presume his residence is in the city.

Again, Bishop of Albany said he can’t excommunicate Cuomo, Dolan says he won’t. Won’t implies he can’t but chooses not to
 
vz71 said:
Perhaps that is why no action has been taken.
You don’t take action upon one to change the mind of another.
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I disagree. I think the Church needs to send a strong message that support for abortion is not tolerated and excommunication pro abortion politicians that claim to be Catholic is probably the best way to do that.
 
When one is governor of NY does Albany become your official “residence” or no? Maybe his non gubernatorial home is still his legal residence and where his church jurisdiction is.
 
Bishop of Albany who has been the leading Bishop denouncing Cuomo and this legislation from day 1 says Cuomo isn’t in his jurisdiction. So it’s not Albany
 
GospelOfMatthew said:
Fradd says if the church doesn’t take a very hard stance against Cuomo, it is scandal
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But does that very hard stance have to take the form of excommunication? Can it even do so? All these calls for excommunication and still nobody has cited a canon under which he’d be excommunicated! Bishops cannot go around excommunicating people for doing things that are not specifically mentioned in canon law as offenses worthy of excommunication. This is like the ecclesiastical version of shouting “Lock Her Up!” OK. But for what? What specific law was broken? So far I’ve only seen two relatively well known canon lawyers say their piece online, both of whom are firmly in the “conservative camp”, and both of whom have said legislating abortion is not written in canon law as a delict demanding excommunication.
 
He says and so does Dolan and Fradd that excommunication isn’t a weapon to be weilded for punishment. If they answered the “needs” of the crowd now, what is different than Pilate washing his hands when there was a call to “crucify Him!” from the crowds?
 
You want our bishops to behave like Pontius Pilate?

Cite the relevant canon(s), please.
 
Excommunication has been used in the past against heretics because of the risk that people will believe that what the heretics are saying is the official teaching of the church.

But there is no risk of anyone thinking that what Cuomo is doing is in line with church teachings. No one thinks of him as an example of a model Catholic.

There is a bit of confusion over being in a position of respect in a particular domain and being a nominal member of another domain. Usain Bolt is a champion sprinter, but if he happened to do embroidery on the side, no one is going to take his embroidery advice more seriously because of it. Similarly, Cuomo has political power but no religious power.

That’s presumably why Dolan thinks there’s no point excommunicating him. I think if we did, we’d have to excommunicate half the church
 
GospelOfMatthew said:
Fradd says if the church doesn’t take a very hard stance against Cuomo, it is scandal
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To whom does canon law assign the responsibility to make decisions about excommunication? To the bishop, or to a layman who is fairly well read, but likely no training or experience in canon law?

I doubt if anyone would let Matt Fradd decide on whether Blondie and Dagwood should, or shouldn’t get an annullment. He himself would probably say he’d need some training, and would need to know more about their private life before he would comment on that.
 
Flopfoot said:
But there is no risk of anyone thinking that what Cuomo is doing is in line with church teachings. No one thinks of him as an example of a model Catholic.
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I disagree. A lot of people seem to think it’s fine to support abortion as long as you are personally opposed.
 
Elf01 said:
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Flopfoot:
But there is no risk of anyone thinking that what Cuomo is doing is in line with church teachings. No one thinks of him as an example of a model Catholic.
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I disagree. A lot of people seem to think it’s fine to support abortion as long as you are personally opposed.
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Correct. In his position you’d have to consider the sin of scandal.
 
commenter said:
The Church works best when each does their own part. Mothers, father’s, priests, sisters, bishops.

It works worst when everyone does the other party’s job…and neglects their own.
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True, we can’t do other’s jobs. And part of our call is to exhort one another to holiness, so that we in fact do the jobs we are called to do. We are accountable to one another.
Prudence comes into play here. If we are telling the bishop what color vestments to wear, or whether the music at his cathedral doesn’t employ enough pipe organ, we probly ought to shut up.

In this issue, people are literally being slaughtered. Don’t accuse me of hyperbole here…human beings are literally being slaughtered. Prudence dictates that anyone with a voice ought to say something. And when those who promote these policies are deaf, we ought to exhort our leadership to observe the obvious:
“You have placed yourself out of communion with the Body of Christ, and many defenseless people will die and others may go to hell as a result of your actions.”
And not in a tangential way but manifestly, publicly, from a position of leadership and influence over millions of people. “to whom much is given…” This is the grave responsibility a politician takes on when he accepts the welfare of his people.
Likewise a bishop.

It’s a poor reflection on the state of our moral courage that this even needs to be said. We have conformed ourselves to the culture. All of us. That includes me. We need to call each other to be better, and do it truthfully.
 
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goout said:
We have conformed ourselves to the culture. All of us. That includes me. We need to call each other to be better, and do it truthfully.
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No matter what happens, the media urges the laity to criticize the bishops.

Your paragraph cited is good, but why are there so few threads on CAF and elsewhere about the huge number of prolife laity who refuse to work to get proabortion politicians defeated?

In NY State the current bishops have been far more outspoken and active against this legislation than the laity.
 
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