J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
He was under Philip’s tutelage.
- Status
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
Limbo is a theory.
That is what the Church teaches.
That is what the Church teaches.
O
OneSheep
Guest
That doesn’t mean he knew what he was doing. Teachers don’t have 100% success!
His prayer was in the form of asking Peter to intercede. So, did he know more before, or after, being reprimanded by Peter?
We are looking for reasons, not excuses. Also, there is a difference between ignorance and triggered blindness, but both are a lack of “knowing” and both were part of what happened in the crowd, most likely. The crowd, for example, had a lot of triggered blindness going on, as well as lack of awareness.
Good night, God bless you, and thank you.
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
He learned the faith from Philip. You saying Phil was a bad teacher?
That was sarcasm.
O
OneSheep
Guest
No, I am saying that Simon didn’t learn! He believed in something false, correct? In addition, it could be that Phillip simply did not address Simon’s ridiculous position.
Well, we don’t know that, indeed, it goes against the CCC to assume that he was being sarcastic unless we have solid proof. However, we can address all the scenarios to investigate the possibility that he was being sarcastic, while not making the accusation (defamation of character) that he actually was being sarcastic.
If he was being sarcastic, why was he doing so?
Last edited:
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
Another knock on Simon.
Considering he went on unchanged and became one of the Church’s greatest enemies…
O
OneSheep
Guest
If he was being sarcastic, why was he doing so? What was he thinking?
Actually, it continues to make my point. We can assume that Phillip taught the truth, but Simon thought that his own approach was true. When a person believes an untruth, do they know what they are doing?
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
They know the truth but deceive themselves.
O
OneSheep
Guest
So let’s look at some possibilities of what was going through his mind. Pick one, or create a new one:
“Phillip is right, but what I am thinking is more right.”
“Phillip is not right, it is the truth that I can buy gifts of the Spirit”
“I am a great and powerful magician, surely I can use this gift to increase my powers. Philip did not address this, but I will buy this powerful gift.”
Last edited:
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
He knew what he was doing.
O
OneSheep
Guest
You’re going to simply make the assertion without an investigation at all?
Without actually explaining what he could have been thinking or believing?
Are you familiar with the concept of “circular argument”?
Last edited:
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
Peter’s condemnation makes it clear.
But Peter said to him, “Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
Acts 8:20-21, 23 RSV-CI
O
OneSheep
Guest
Okay, let’s go with this. If a person thinks he can obtain the gift of God with money, is he believing the truth?
This is leaving out Philip’s teaching, and Simon simply having the thought, “I can buy the gift of God” (this is assuming that Peter is correct, which is likely). Does Simon know that this is an untruth?
R
Rubee
Guest
God baptized at least two people we know in the wombs of their mothers, without water baptism. He has no difficulty baptizing dying babies that humans failed to give water baptism to.
R
Rubee
Guest
Two words: Mary, John 
You can find the source in the Gospels.
You can find the source in the Gospels.
R
Rubee
Guest
Wasn’t baptized. This was prior to baptism being a sacrament.
Try again?
[/quote]
Lol, no YOU try again. Baptism is the grant of justifying grace to a soul that RIDS it of original sin without its merit coming into the equation. Water baptism is just one way of doing it. That grace we get in water baptism is EXACTLY what God gave to these two people without water baptism, so we know he doesn’t mind doing it, nor is he incapable of it.
Try again?
[/quote]
Lol, no YOU try again. Baptism is the grant of justifying grace to a soul that RIDS it of original sin without its merit coming into the equation. Water baptism is just one way of doing it. That grace we get in water baptism is EXACTLY what God gave to these two people without water baptism, so we know he doesn’t mind doing it, nor is he incapable of it.
R
Rubee
Guest
Your quotes say a soul in original sin doesn’t go to heaven. We have evidence God has ways of removing original sin from babies without water baptism. So there go all your “water-tight” quotes.
Baptism is just my way of calling this grant of justifying grace God provides with water baptism and outside it as well. If all you are left with to argue is my use of the word “baptism” to describe God’s gift of grace to Our Lady and St. John the Baptist long before they were born, I’ll withdraw the term. The point still stands. God is not limited by water baptism when it comes to removing original sin.
Baptism is just my way of calling this grant of justifying grace God provides with water baptism and outside it as well. If all you are left with to argue is my use of the word “baptism” to describe God’s gift of grace to Our Lady and St. John the Baptist long before they were born, I’ll withdraw the term. The point still stands. God is not limited by water baptism when it comes to removing original sin.
Last edited:
R
Rubee
Guest
This is how the church understands what you believe you understand:
CCC 1257
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. 60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. 61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. 62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
There’s a difference between what the church can and cannot do to save a soul and what God in his own sovereign power can and cannot do to save a soul.
Also, the “I’ll keep baptizing babies and not be irresponsible” is a diversion: No one here says not to baptize babies. As the church, it is our mission to preach to and baptize everyone we can. This is about what happens to dying innocent babies who were not baptized out of the ignorance or carelessness of someone else; not about whether we should stop baptizing babies.
CCC 1257
The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. 60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. 61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. 62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
There’s a difference between what the church can and cannot do to save a soul and what God in his own sovereign power can and cannot do to save a soul.
Also, the “I’ll keep baptizing babies and not be irresponsible” is a diversion: No one here says not to baptize babies. As the church, it is our mission to preach to and baptize everyone we can. This is about what happens to dying innocent babies who were not baptized out of the ignorance or carelessness of someone else; not about whether we should stop baptizing babies.
Last edited:
M
Montrose
Guest
CCC 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
J
Julius_Caesar
Guest
Simon’s heart was in it for the money from day one. He was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He knew what he was doing.
- Status