Maybe I should stay Protestant

[GentleKnight60]

Forgive me for isolating on this one part of your post, in that you’ve shared a number of valuable thoughts, but if I might— it is the contrast with the mall, or supermarket as someone mentioned earlier, that I would like to encourage.
The Catholic worship experience is more vertical than most, ie God directed, and I would not have that change for all the world-- this is what brought me to this point of near Catholic (and by His mercy one day I will swim the Tiber!). I’m just saying since you/“we” may appear cold to the seeker, let’s try to compensate in the parking lot. Let’s let down our urban guard and risk some eye contact, a nod, or a smile. I direct this admonition especially to those that sense they have gifting in hospitality and evangelism in particular. As has been stated its not everyone’s thing.
blessings, Wes

Yes Wes, I know what you are talking about and you are right. But if one is not giving of himself it’s not the religion that’s at fault, it’s the sole responsibility of the individual. In some churches there are greeters at the front door. Some parishes before services, the priests asks the parishoners to stand up and greet those around them with a smile, handshake and say “good morning” or whatever the proper salutation. During Mass we all stand and give each other the sign of peace (a smile, handshake and state “peace be with you” (it’s a part of the service). Yes, there are those whose greetings are insincere, those who are afraid of germs from a handshake, those who are just who I would say are in turmoil. And yes, Catholics do sing serveral times durning Mass. But of course, there are those who do not choose to sing (I myself couldn’t carry a tune to save my soul). If we don’t shake hands we usually turn to those around us nod and smile. But again, most do, some don’t. Being Catholic is very introspective. We realize our sins are not just our actions, or inactions, but also our thoughts. I go to confession asking for forgiveness for even the slightest errant thought. Even the slightest sin offends the Lord. During the day if a car cuts me off and I’m thinking a profanity against the other driver, I go to confession because that’s a sin on my part. If I make that same driving mistake and cut someone off, I confess that sin because I probably made that other driver to sin (verbally or non-verbally). It’s not a great sin, but it’s still a sin which offends our Lord. Going to confession is also another way to say “i’m sorry” and “i ask your forgiveness Lord for causing hurt to one of your children”, amongst the other aspects of confession. I know this is more info than you desire but all churches are made up of individuals. If there are no greeters, person(s) to lead a bible study class, someone to clean the church, someone to lead the choir or even join the choir etc, there has to be individuals who will rise up, take notice, and provide those services and ministry’s. Forgot who started the thread, but that person instead of complaining (what does that accomplish?) should be the first to speak up, act friendly and let his warmness rub off on others. Again, to be Catholic is very introspective. It’s not about being like those around us, but to be like our Risen Saviour. God Bless You…and forgive me for being probably giving you more info than you needed or wanted.

 

[cecilia97]

The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Hi Dave,

I think this is just a difference in world-view between Catholics and non-Catholics. When I’ve visited friends’ Methodist church up the street, I’ve found the cards they ask visitors to fill out with phone and address info horribly invasive. When I visit a non-denominational church and am greeting by 15 smiling hand-shakers, it overwhelms me, in an unpleasant way.

Please don’t give up because of this. If you believe a church has the fullness of God’s truth, the “trappings” matter less. I’m sure the people at the Catholic and EO parishes you’ve visited are very friendly…we just do not have a “culture” of greeting in our churches.

God bless you,

 

[rcjones]

If you came in on a Saturday you likely found people who were cleaning, prepping for Sunday Liturgy and Social events. Give them a break, none of them may be comfortable with apologetics.

Make an appt with the Church Office to talk to the Pastor or Director of Religious Education.

Thank you for presuming I am stupid. Been there done that. I got a Bible, as mentioned above from one, and told the church had truth and I couldn’t know it till I joined, from the other.

Done here. I didn’t come here to hassle you. The observation has been made repeatedly in this thread and you merely excuse it. No chance that there might be truth in the observations, in your mind, even though it comes from multiple sources.

 

[wanner47]

You can set your watch by watching folks flood out of the church my folks attend. Soon as they “get” communion, they are out the door, grabbing a smoke, pulling a soda out of their pockets and using profane language, of course, until next week when the again “go and get it done”.

And I’ve been to parishes where the exact opposite is true. You can’t judge an entire denomination by the actions of a single parish. I admit that the behavior you describe is all too common in my parish as well, but it’s not because of lack of trying on the priest’s part. He frequently asks folks to come early or stay late for private prayer, preaches about the importance of fully participating in Mass, etc.

Edit - I’ve also been in Protestant churches where people are out the door as soon as they can manage it. It’s not a phenomenon unique to Catholicism.

 

[cecilia97]

And I’ve been to parishes where the exact opposite is true. You can’t judge an entire denomination by the actions of a single parish. I admit that the behavior you describe is all too common in my parish as well, but it’s not because of lack of trying on the priest’s part. He frequently asks folks to come early or stay late for private prayer, preaches about the importance of fully participating in Mass, etc.

My pastor is smart and really quite sneaky about this. He asks the whole congregation to stay for a prayer for vocations after Mass. He stands in the back of the church and leads us in prayer. You’d have to have nerves of steel to want to walk past him while everyone else is praying. The result: in my whole life, I’ve never seen a parish where so few people leave Mass early.

Tricky tricky!

 

[wanner47]

My pastor is smart and really quite sneaky about this. He asks the whole congregation to stay for a prayer for vocations after Mass. He stands in the back of the church and leads us in prayer. You’d have to have nerves of steel to want to walk past him while everyone else is praying. The result: in my whole life, I’ve never seen a parish where so few people leave Mass early.

Tricky tricky!

Hmmm, that’s a great idea; I’ll have to mention it to Father or one of the deacons.

I’ve always wanted to put up a sign on the church doors that says, “Judas left right after Communion too,” but I think Father would appreciate a less cynical approach.

 

[cecilia97]

Hmmm, that’s a great idea; I’ll have to mention it to Father or one of the deacons.

I’ve always wanted to put up a sign on the church doors that says, “Judas left right after Communion too,” but I think Father would appreciate a less cynical approach.

It would be great if this practice spread! And we need the prayers for vocations, too. We joke because, about a year after Father started this, lots of baby BOYS started arriving.

The cantor will announce the exit hymn and tell us we’ll pray one Haily Mary for vocations after the hymn. Then we sing, Father processes out, and then we all kneel and pray. The first time I visited the parish and saw that I was like “OK, Lord, I got the memo, this is the place”.

 

[Masters_Servant]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Try a personal relationship with Jesus Christ; you won’t look back and you can never be disappointed because there is a Friend who is closer than a brother. - Just a thought

 

[WesPilgrim]

Forgot who started the thread, but that person instead of complaining (what does that accomplish?) should be the first to speak up, act friendly and let his warmness rub off on others. Again, to be Catholic is very introspective. It’s not about being like those around us, but to be like our Risen Saviour. God Bless You…and forgive me for being probably giving you more info than you needed or wanted.

No apologies needed, GentleKnight, I very much appreciate what you’ve shared. Let me say for my part: Ultimately it would be very shallow and silly of me, or anyone for that matter, to decide… ‘Well, I believe that these folks have valid sacraments and thereby the real presence of Jesus, but you know they’re kinda cliquish and a little aloof, soooo, so much for that option.’ That would be the social tail wagging the truth dog IMV
Even so, there will always be growing edges in this life— that is, areas that we can improve on.

 

[BernadetteM]

From the several threads I have seen lately on CAF, it appears that some who are thinking about becoming Catholic are turned off because people don’t run up to them and welcome them. I have to wonder what they really are looking for in a church, the truth or just a social life. Also with such large congregations how would anyone know that a person is new and just attending a different Mass.

You can have both within the Catholic Church, but a person needs to reach out, maybe join some of the organizations and meet people that way.

I have attended my parish for two years and really don’t know too many people. I have had some problems and have not been able to join any of the several groups yet. I have been invited to someone’s house this Sunday and we are going to listen to a testimony.

I have had several people say Good Morning and at times have had conversations while waiting for Mass (outside of course).

I go to church to worship our Lord and to be honest I do recognize several people at the Mass I attend, but there are so many I don’t know if they attend when I do or not.

Protestant churches are usually much smaller than Catholic ones. The mega ones seem to have many groups and that is where the people make friends. They only know the people that are within their groups.

I am a convert and my former churches were not very friendly. I really don’t like the pressure that some churches put on new visitors. I am familiar with different denominations and although some are all over you and maybe your friends while attending the church, but if you leave you will find that many who were your friends don’t have time to keep in touch.

If a person is looking for a social club join one. Church is to worship. I believe that during the celebration of the liturgy stated in the early church the people recieved the Body and Blood and then returned home or went to where the sick were to bring them the Eucharist. It doesn’t say anything about getting together and talking etc. Not that I find anything wrong with the social aspect, but it does have its proper place.

Our parish has a breakfast once a month put on by the Knights of Columbus where you can meet people. Once I had to meet a woman in the parish hall and while sitting there, several children were being taught hymns. There were others around meeting in groups. It is up to the individual to reach out to others. We have 5 Masses on Sunday alone and it is difficult for members to be outside while others are trying to enter the church. We also have confessions before every Mass so there are long lines waiting to get in before Mass starts.

I think that many really don’t want to be Catholic, they might accept some of the teachings, but if you really believe that the Church is the True Church, nothing would keep you from it.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Dave_in_Dallas]

Well, this thread has taken on a life of it’s own since I started it a month ago… I didn’t realize that people were still replying to this

The past month has been interesting… the Lord has put answers out for me when I had questions, and people in places when I needed them…

It’s been tough too because one of the reasons I left the church was the abuse scandals 7 or so years ago… This time though I am sticking with the Catholic Church, and just runnng out the door to find the “perfect” church…

The more I listen to great programs like Catholic Answers LIve and other apologetic shows, the more I realize that most of what I “heard” (or read) the Catholic church teaches isn’t the same as what it “actually” teaches. I mean this in a good way. The Church has a deep and rich history and it’s a joy to learn it’s catechism.

 

[kage_ar]

Keep in mind, thos Protestant congregations are recruiting, they do not care of you are from the Catholic Church, if you are unchurched or if you are from the First Church of What’s Happenin Now next door - they want you in their pew.

At Mass, everyone assumes you are already Catholic, the member of a parish and simply fufilling your obligation here.

 

[cecilia97]

Well, this thread has taken on a life of it’s own since I started it a month ago… I didn’t realize that people were still replying to this

The past month has been interesting… the Lord has put answers out for me when I had questions, and people in places when I needed them…

It’s been tough too because one of the reasons I left the church was the abuse scandals 7 or so years ago… This time though I am sticking with the Catholic Church, and just runnng out the door to find the “perfect” church…

The more I listen to great programs like Catholic Answers LIve and other apologetic shows, the more I realize that most of what I “heard” (or read) the Catholic church teaches isn’t the same as what it “actually” teaches. I mean this in a good way. The Church has a deep and rich history and it’s a joy to learn it’s catechism.

This is wonderful to hear. God bless you, Dave, and may He always draw you closer to His Son.

 

[WesPilgrim]

Well, this thread has taken on a life of it’s own since I started it a month ago… I didn’t realize that people were still replying to this

The more I listen to great programs like Catholic Answers LIve and other apologetic shows, the more I realize that most of what I “heard” (or read) the Catholic church teaches isn’t the same as what it “actually” teaches. I mean this in a good way. The Church has a deep and rich history and it’s a joy to learn it’s catechism.

Thanks Dave for kicking off a good thread. As I hear it, most of us that have offered critique as to greeting, and person-ability, and the like — we are largely persisting in our journey, I am more interested in the Jesus who abides in the Tabernacle than in being bothered over always having to be the one that strikes up the conversation, etc.
Some on the other hand see this culture problem as a reason — even an evidence, if you will, to dismiss the Catholic Church. Charity demands we given their concerns an honest hearing.
For my part, I still have a foot in my Methodist world, which divides my time for the moment. Longer term, I need to commit more fully to the OHCA.
blessings, Wes

 

[Roy5]

Protestant churches usually are much friendlier than Catholic churches. Why?

 1. They usually are smaller, and visitors are more easily noticed. 

 2. Many have a less formal atmosphere, whereby people greet one another, chat together, etc. In most Catholic churches 'passing the peace' is rather formalized. In Protestant churches people near you introduce themselves and/or might say: "Hi? Welcome! etc." 

 3. There usually is less focus on the altar and more on the congregation. The body of Christ is the people. They don't have the belief that Christ is in the Eucharist. He is among the faithful. "I am with you always...."

 4. Many Protestant churches announce personal things - sick members, etc. They will even invite visitors to stand, and then they may be applauded or presented a 'packet' with materials welcoming them. The packet usually contains a visitor's tag to put on to better identify visitors.

 5. We have five Catholic churches in this community. From my experience, In one of them the priest meanders through the congregation before Mass and may spot newcomers and engage them in conversation. That is rare, however. One Catholic friend who had been attending her parish church for years found out that her name was not on its register, even though she had been a charter member and worked hard raising money to build the church. She was devastated and began attending another parish - and less regularly than before. Between that and the sex scandal her enthusiasim for the Church has waned.

 6. Catholics often feel an obligation to attend Mass and are ready to dart out to the parking lot as soon as it ends. In most Protestant churches more emphasis is placed upon socializing after worship, often over a cup of coffee and a freshly-baked goodie.

 7. Some Protestant churches have teams all prepared to call on visitors within the first week after a visitor appears (if that visitor lives locally, of course). Many pastors or evangelism chairs send out letters or make phone calls soon. Or, the pastor may even call within a few days if the church is small enough for him/her to do so.

 Those are some points. There are others if my brain were functioning better. There are, of course, many books on ways of evangelizing. Evangelical churches are particularly vigorous in pushing evangelism, though mainline church often do, too. As others have pointed out, Catholic churches vary widely in this arena.

 

[Roy5]

Oh, and I intended to add this. People should attend the church that feeds them spiritually. My own opinion is that God is interested in devoted followers who seek to live for Christ, and who live as much like Christ as they possibly can. This may be a Catholic church, an Orthodox church, or a Protestant church. I’m quite sure St. Peter won’t be the least bit concerned about our church affiliation when we arrive at the pearly gates. We are not saved by our church or our doctrines but by God’s grace, our simple faith and the way we sought to be loyal disciples of Jesus.

 

[Aramis]

Oh, and I intended to add this. People should attend the church that feeds them spiritually. My own opinion is that God is interested in devoted followers who seek to live for Christ, and who live as much like Christ as they possibly can. This may be a Catholic church, an Orthodox church, or a Protestant church. I’m quite sure St. Peter won’t be the least bit concerned about our church affiliation when we arrive at the pearly gates. We are not saved by our church or our doctrines but by God’s grace, our simple faith and the way we sought to be loyal disciples of Jesus.

To Catholics and Orthodox, you’ve just expressed a heresy… a variant of universalism.

Christ established a church, and gave its first leaders the power to bind and loose sins. One held bound by them, consistently, is schism.

Peter clearly held a strong opinion about schism; the letters of St. Peter in the Bible show he was concerned with Orthopraxis and Orthodoxis; universalism is neither, and thus it is illogical to presume St Peter will have changed his mind about Orthodoxis and Orthopraxis.

 

[wanner47]

Oh, and I intended to add this. People should attend the church that feeds them spiritually. My own opinion is that God is interested in devoted followers who seek to live for Christ, and who live as much like Christ as they possibly can. This may be a Catholic church, an Orthodox church, or a Protestant church. I’m quite sure St. Peter won’t be the least bit concerned about our church affiliation when we arrive at the pearly gates. We are not saved by our church or our doctrines but by God’s grace, our simple faith and the way we sought to be loyal disciples of Jesus.

But what if it’s Wicca that feeds me spiritually? Or the Church of Satan? Or Islam? Or the Jewish religion? (I’m not saying these are comparable or analogous, mind you.)

How is it “living for Christ” if any of the above “feed me” spiritually?

God wants us to seek TRUTH, not convenience or entertainment or places that make us “feel good.” Sometimes it’s hard to follow Him; being Christian is not always sunshine and roses and walking around on cloud nine. We should seek a church that teaches Truth above all; not one that merely suits our worship preferences.

 

[WesPilgrim]

Protestant churches usually are much friendlier than Catholic churches. Why?

1. They usually are smaller, and visitors are more easily noticed.

Hi Roy,
I think your list is outstanding both in clarity and detail. If I might critique number one, however, this is altogether a regional matter. I grew up in an area of the south where a modest city of around 30K would do well to have one small Catholic parish with a chapel sized building, and on a circuit where a priest might come by to celebrate a weekly mass.
When as a young man (with only the vaguest notions of Catholicism) reading that Vince Lombardi was a daily communicant made me wonder ---- what Church had mass every day? Maybe Green Bay is bigger than I thought!

Side bar:
For some of us growing up at a distance Catholicism was Vince Lombardi, Father Mulcahy, Ryan’s Hope, Bing Crosby’s character, Danny Thomas, Fulton Sheen, The Exorcist, etc.
Net product— we/you used to get a better shake from popular media

blessings, Wes

 

[jmcrae]

Why should anyone attend a catholic service when “all” you have to do is attend for a few minutes? How many times have I seen folks come in to mass late, leave early and their explanation is “you don’t have to stay for the whole mass to make it count”.

Is this what God wants?

To “count” for what? If they’re dropping in on a weekday Mass to receive Holy Communion for a Novena that they’re doing, and for reasons of work and other daily duties they honestly can’t stay for the whole Mass, then, yeah - fine.

But for Sunday Mass to “count” in terms of your Sunday obligation, you have to be there from the time the priest says “Let us begin in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” until after the priest has left the nave of the Church.